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Escalade Lambda Confirmed Again


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leave that up to the product planners and financiers to see what kind of formula they come up with. Escalade has never been king of the road handling course. nor king of off road course. nor king of percieved luxury [on the inside--that designation goes to regal and English technical Range Rovers]. Escalade has been king of brash intimidating message and luxury. Let's hope a classic stance is retained, percieved luxury improves significantly [current gen was already a massive step ahead], some sport is injected via stance and design accoutrements inside and out, and whoa what a miracle it would be for them to actually invest in platform advancements that would filter down to actually make this Cadillac Lambda a legitimate sports luxury SUV like an X5 or GL wagon competitor. the last one is the most we can hope for, but certainly the first ones we can look out for, and if acheived, Cadillac may succeed, FWD or not. that poser cute ute of chick mobile SRX with its exeedingly large overhangs and overly conservative stance on the other hand is a loser in my book and a stain to the Cadillac name.

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Oh God...

Why would GM shy away from the current SUV; don't they realize that there is still a market for big SUV's? Snoop-Dogg wannabees don't give two-$h!s about gas mileage.

Edited by Captainbooyah
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EPIC_fail :angry:
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This could be good or bad...

If it comes with AWD and a V8 and retains the attitude of the current truck, then it'll be good.

If it's "Traversed" it'll be bad.

I just don't want this to 1) Kill the only bright spot Buick has right now and 2) Kill one of only 2 bright spots Cadillac has right now.

If the EXT is moving to Zeta, then why can't the regualr Escalade do it too? Is Zeta not big enough or refined enough?

I just hope the Escalade doesn't lose all of it's 'truck-status' sales over it basically becoming a minivan.

Oh, and we already knew that Lambda could fit a V8 since at one time an Enlcave Super and/or Acadia Denali was planned. But wasn't the V8 that was going into the Lambdas supposed to be the UV8 at one time?

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On a side note GM bought the full rights to manufacture Tata Nano under Chevy badge and shall have a car on the same architecture for Cadillac to be called Cadillac Pico - Oh wait it is a RWD - change in plans the architecture shall be modified to spawn FWD models to gain 0.00005 mpg in fuel economy.

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Considering the Cobalt was the fastest FWD around the ring until 2 months ago and beat out BMWs and Ferarris........ it could certainly be worse.

I never could figure that out..I've always thought FWDs by nature sucked at handling,being nose heavy, prone to understeer...that was a big WTF??? moment for me.

Edited by moltar
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I never could figure that out..I've always thought FWDs by nature sucked at handling,being nose heavy, prone to understeer...that was a big WTF??? moment for me.

for an interesting read, pick up this month's MotorTrend. full article on handling. cobalt is one of the 12 cars.

Edited by 97regalGS
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most average citizens and car users will prefer fwd feel to rwd, rwd is tail happy. fwd front heaviness to a point is a positive, it makes the front end 'feel secure', esp in wet weather.

i am ok with front drive if the weight balance is decent and not 'nose heavy'. tires make a difference. a well set up fwd car feels as good to me and any rwd car i've driven.

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leave that up to the product planners and financiers to see what kind of formula they come up with. Escalade has never been king of the road handling course. nor king of off road course. nor king of percieved luxury [on the inside--that designation goes to regal and English technical Range Rovers]. Escalade has been king of brash intimidating message and luxury. Let's hope a classic stance is retained, percieved luxury improves significantly [current gen was already a massive step ahead], some sport is injected via stance and design accoutrements inside and out, and whoa what a miracle it would be for them to actually invest in platform advancements that would filter down to actually make this Cadillac Lambda a legitimate sports luxury SUV like an X5 or GL wagon competitor. the last one is the most we can hope for, but certainly the first ones we can look out for, and if acheived, Cadillac may succeed, FWD or not. that poser cute ute of chick mobile SRX with its exeedingly large overhangs and overly conservative stance on the other hand is a loser in my book and a stain to the Cadillac name.

Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

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Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

Maybe from the outside it looks smaller, but I can attest to the Lambdas being waaaay more roomy and "big" on the inside. They aren't as wide as the 900's, but the way they are packaged makes them feel much longer. Maybe it's seating positions and stiff cushions, but I can't stand riding in the 2nd row of a 900.

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RWD > FWD.

V8 in a Lambda won't work, unless it is a bad V8 making around 300 hp, which they can get from a V6. Front drive is limited as to how much power it can take, and the bigger engine will just screw up the weight balance and handling even more.

You can't compete with BMW or Mercedes (or Range Rover) with engines, transmissions and platforms shared with a Chevy. They need better than that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Maybe from the outside it looks smaller, but I can attest to the Lambdas being waaaay more roomy and "big" on the inside. They aren't as wide as the 900's, but the way they are packaged makes them feel much longer. Maybe it's seating positions and stiff cushions, but I can't stand riding in the 2nd row of a 900.

Really? The 2nd row of all the Escalades we have are captain's chairs that seem identical to the two front seats......and seem plenty comfortable.

I'm going to re-affirm my STRONG opinion that an Escalade Lambda would be a HUGE mistake.

Just yesterday, Enterprise parked one of their Enclave rentals on our lot ironically next to an Escalade.....and attractive as it is, in size, the Enclave simply does not have the sheer presence that the Escalade does.

For good or for bad, the Escalade's size and imposing nature is what makes it so attractive to a vast majority of our customers that buy them.......

(Now.....a Lambda SRX? I'm all over that....)

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RWD > FWD.

V8 in a Lambda won't work, unless it is a bad V8 making around 300 hp, which they can get from a V6. Front drive is limited as to how much power it can take, and the bigger engine will just screw up the weight balance and handling even more.

You can't compete with BMW or Mercedes (or Range Rover) with engines, transmissions and platforms shared with a Chevy. They need better than that.

Audi has V8s on a FWD/AWD platform (S4 and S5). Why can't GM do that and have a competitive Escalade? The passenger cars will remain on RWD/AWD platform(s) anyway...

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Seems to me that I told you all that the Escalade's days were numbered back at the beginning of the year. I also suggested that a replacement on zeta would be a natural. I got shouted down back then, but someone at GM must have been thinking along the same lines. A Caddy version of the GMC Denali showtruck would make a perfect replacement for the current EXT.

As for the Lambda, I'm lukewarm on that idea.

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Seems to me that I told you all that the Escalade's days were numbered back at the beginning of the year. I also suggested that a replacement on zeta would be a natural. I got shouted down back then, but someone at GM must have been thinking along the same lines. A Caddy version of the GMC Denali showtruck would make a perfect replacement for the current EXT.

As for the Lambda, I'm lukewarm on that idea.

Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Really? The 2nd row of all the Escalades we have are captain's chairs that seem identical to the two front seats......and seem plenty comfortable.

...

Really. At least to me (6'3") the second row of the Enclave is much more comfortable. Maybe it's because the Enclave's second row can be slid forward/backward to give me more leg room. Though the Tahoe's seats are more bulky and less hugging (maybe the Escalade's are more cushy?).

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Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

If that's the case, Caddy needs to grow the hell up. A RWD/AWD Zeta Escalade would be much more in keeping with the brand's supposed mantra than one built off Lambda. I guess it's OK to hang out in the back of the pack with Acura and Lincoln as long as it means not using a Holden platform :rolleyes:

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Audi has V8s on a FWD/AWD platform (S4 and S5). Why can't GM do that and have a competitive Escalade? The passenger cars will remain on RWD/AWD platform(s) anyway...

And the S4/S5 is not as good as an M3. The Volvo S80 has a V8 and fwd/awd set up, and that car is not as good as any rear drive luxury car of similar price.

If the Escalade's mission becomes to target the Lincoln MKT or Acura MDX or Enclave, then the fwd/awd set up is fine.

I think it is just one more sign that GM is giving up on the original quest from 2003 to go after BMW and Mercedes, and is now wanting to go after Acura, Lincoln, etc.

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If that's the case, Caddy needs to grow the hell up. A RWD/AWD Zeta Escalade would be much more in keeping with the brand's supposed mantra than one built off Lambda. I guess it's OK to hang out in the back of the pack with Acura and Lincoln as long as it means not using a Holden platform :rolleyes:

Exactly.

GM execs seems to need a bit of growing up too - this infighting makes them look like petulant children.

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Well, I can say that now that I've sold quite a few Escalades, I can tell you the one thing that, ironically, people buy the Escalade for, is because it is the biggest luxury SUV on the market. In this case, SIZE is one of the primary factors in the sale of the Escalade.

I've sold quite a few against Range Rover due to the fact that the RR is simply "not big enough."

Now whether this size-factor is due to true roominess, or the simple bling factor of it all, I'm not sure......but I see a move from GMT-900 to a Lambda as sure death for the Escalade name.

Lambda would have made a great, new SRX however......

:yes:

GM just doesn't get it...

Then again, since we went socialist with CAFE, I doubt we will be "allowed" to even buy a truck or SUV in about 5 years.

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Caddy and Holden don't play nice. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

1) Seems like they played just fine for Sigma.

2) Maybe it's time to bitch slap cadillac down from it's podium a bit. I mean, if all their shenanigans were actually producing cars worth buying, it might be different. But a FWD 20 year old car with a V6 as your flagship and a FWD VAN to replace your luxury SUV that never sold on dynamics or efficiency in the first place seem to = FAIL as opposed to BMW/MB competitiveness.

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Exactly.

GM execs seems to need a bit of growing up too - this infighting makes them look like petulant children.

GM needs an outsider...

Someone with BALLS.

Uncle Bob did excellent with the product, however he can't change the culture because he is AN AUTO INDUSTRY LIFER.

GM needs to bring someone in that will tell these people to STFU, just like Ford did with Mulally.

"Either work together or hit the door"

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And the S4/S5 is not as good as an M3. The Volvo S80 has a V8 and fwd/awd set up, and that car is not as good as any rear drive luxury car of similar price.

If the Escalade's mission becomes to target the Lincoln MKT or Acura MDX or Enclave, then the fwd/awd set up is fine.

I think it is just one more sign that GM is giving up on the original quest from 2003 to go after BMW and Mercedes, and is now wanting to go after Acura, Lincoln, etc.

I should have written the S4/S5 platform mate, the Q5. Not doing it made you miss my point. A Lambda-based Escalade would be perfectly justifiable, as I don't see anyone driving an X5 (and not even an X6) like their driving an M3. I don't want Cadillac to have any passenger car that is on a FWD/AWD platform, but for the trucks/SUVs I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

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Uncle Bob did excellent with the product, however he can't change the culture because he is AN AUTO INDUSTRY LIFER.

......he can't change the culture because his boss is Mr. Rick "I've Never Worked For Any Other Company Than GM" Wagoner......

How can Wagoner have ANY frame of reference for how a company should be run, or what constitutes a dynamic workplace environment? The only company he has EVER worked for is GM.....he's a "lifer"

.....and let me tell you, like me, those of you that have worked for GM, moved on, and worked for other companies KNOW that GM harbors one of the, if not THE, most old-school cultures in Corporate America.

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Everyone's talking about this from a competitive standpoint, but I thought of this...

Potentially five Lambdas... unless they get to killing soon.

The chevy should be safe if you think from a sales standpoint. The Buick and a Cadillac would be differentiated enough in looks, power and price. The Outlook and the Acadia? It just depends on which brand GM chooses to fill the gap between Chevrolet and Buick... the killing will happen there, me thinks.

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The Buick and a Cadillac would be differentiated enough in looks, power and price.

How would Cadillac be able to out-bling the already blinged-out Enclave?

Also, what would you put in the engine bay that could do justice in the face of the Escalade's 403-hp V8? As far as I've heard, the premium V8 that was slated for the Enclave (Super?) has been shelved.....leaving only the DI V6....?

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20 years from now this will be remembered as the 1962 Dodge of Cadillacs.

And '62 Dodges will be offended, rightfully so.

Do you see Mercedes Benz dowsizing their FULL SIZE SUV onto a freekin' C-class platform? <_<

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How would Cadillac be able to out-bling the already blinged-out Enclave?
The The Art & Science Styling theme is totally different from the "curvyness" of the Enclave. It'd work. Also, the Cadillac would get a state-of-the-art interior, something to justify the difference to the Enclave's price point.

Also, what would you put in the engine bay that could do justice in the face of the Escalade's 403-hp V8? As far as I've heard, the premium V8 that was slated for the Enclave (Super?) has been shelved.....leaving only the DI V6....?
Twin-turbo DI V6? It seems forced induction will become more and more used in coming years.
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I would say, kiss the Outlook and Acadia goodbye.

But why?

You'd be better off to kill the Outlook and Enclave.

The Enclave will be battling for sales with the Escalade.

It seems that GM is trying to produce MORE products with higher margins (naturally) But in doing that, they're creating competing products (EXAMPLE: Cadillac SRX & Saab 9-4X, in the same showroom none the less)

Mark my words, a Lambda Escalade will be to close to the Enclave to be taken seriously by the media and prospective buyers. Lambda is SO GOOD that it's going to be impossible to set the Escalade apart.

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I truly hope this is wrong, As an Owner of a 2006 Escalade ESV Platinum edition and a 2008 Escalade which the wife drives, I have already run into one major problem as to why the wife never has to worry about me driving her ride. THere is not enough Head room. The Dealership was shocked to see that with the seat all the way down, I can not sit up straight like I do in my 2006 ESV. If they truly move to the CUV platform and go from full size to mid size, they will loose all the large people who have come to pay extra and love the Escalade due to the room.

At 280LB, 6'6" tall I am not a fat or small man, Nor will the NFL players who are large men or the tall NBA players continue to go with this vehicle. GM YOU ARE MAKING A BIG BIG BIG MISTAKE HERE! Worry about CAFE and get it covered with Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Buick and GMC. Remember Cadillac is Luxury and should stand above and apart from these others.

:thumbsdown: A very bad Idea!!! :thumbsdown:

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But why?

You'd be better off to kill the Outlook and Enclave.

The Enclave will be battling for sales with the Escalade.

It seems that GM is trying to produce MORE products with higher margins (naturally) But in doing that, they're creating competing products (EXAMPLE: Cadillac SRX & Saab 9-4X, in the same showroom none the less)

Mark my words, a Lambda Escalade will be to close to the Enclave to be taken seriously by the media and prospective buyers. Lambda is SO GOOD that it's going to be impossible to set the Escalade apart.

The Enclave has the success and popularity to maintain it at Buick, of all of the Lambdas it should be the one automatically continued. With that said, Lambda isn't a good fit at Cadillac IMO.

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The Enclave has the success and popularity to maintain it at Buick, of all of the Lambdas it should be the one automatically continued. With that said, Lambda isn't a good fit at Cadillac IMO.

I totally agree, this platform has NO PLACE in the Cadillac Division.

:smilies-38096:

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dfelt, that's what most of the public said about a Chevrolet Truck/SUV platform... But once Cadillac was done, the story changed.

Ven, I still think that luxury will not buy into having the Escalade downsize into the Lambda platform.

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It's not a downsizing. The Lambdas are just as big as the large trucks. The Traverse is over 5.2 m long. Only the Suburban, Yukon XL and ESV are bigger. A rebodied lambda could offer just as much room, and with more functionality and better mileage. As for the engine, there is no reason the Escalade's small-block V8 could not fit—GM knows how to package a fwd version.

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For comparison's sake:

|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
|                 |Chevrolet Traverse | Cadillac Escalade | Cadillac Escalade ESV |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
| Wheelbase       |            118.9" |            116.0" |                130.0" |
| Length          |            205.0" |            202.5" |                222.9" |
| Width           |             78.4" |            79.0"  |                 79.1" |
| Height          |             72.8" |            74.3"  |                 75.5" |
| Front Head Room |             40.4" |            40.3"  |                 41.1" |
| Front Leg Room  |             41.3" |            41.3"  |                 41.3" |
| Rear Head Room  |             39.4" |            38.5"  |                 38.5" |
| Rear Leg Room   |             36.8" |            39.0"  |                 39.5" |
| Cargo Volume    |          117.9 cf |         108.9 cf  |              137.4 cf |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
| Weight          |          4720 lbs |         5818 lbs  |              5761 lbs |
| City/Hwy MPG    |             16/23 |            13/19  |                 13/19 |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|

Data taken from http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/

Assuming they use the LWB Lambda, it's exterior dimensions are comparable to the SWB GMT-900 with more room inside and much better gas mileage. Transverse-mounted engine aside, it makes all the sense in the world to make the switch.

-RBB

Edited by RBB
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Assuming they use the LWB Lambda, it's exterior dimensions are comparable to the SWB GMT-900 with more room inside and much better gas mileage. Transverse-mounted engine aside, it makes all the sense in the world to make the switch.

Spot on the Escalade's dimensions... It'd make sense. To me, at least.

Nice flag. Looks somewhat familiar. :smilewide:

Edited by ZL-1
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It's not a downsizing. The Lambdas are just as big as the large trucks. The Traverse is over 5.2 m long. Only the Suburban, Yukon XL and ESV are bigger. A rebodied lambda could offer just as much room, and with more functionality and better mileage. As for the engine, there is no reason the Escalade's small-block V8 could not fit—GM knows how to package a fwd version.

WOW.... thanks for pointing out that Lambada is the W-body of truck platforms. :angry:

I'll be in the bathroom with a razor blade. Down the street, not across.

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For comparison's sake:

|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
|                 |Chevrolet Traverse | Cadillac Escalade | Cadillac Escalade ESV |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
| Wheelbase       |            118.9" |            116.0" |                130.0" |
| Length          |            205.0" |            202.5" |                222.9" |
| Width           |             78.4" |            79.0"  |                 79.1" |
| Height          |             72.8" |            74.3"  |                 75.5" |
| Front Head Room |             40.4" |            40.3"  |                 41.1" |
| Front Leg Room  |             41.3" |            41.3"  |                 41.3" |
| Rear Head Room  |             39.4" |            38.5"  |                 38.5" |
| Rear Leg Room   |             36.8" |            39.0"  |                 39.5" |
| Cargo Volume    |          117.9 cf |         108.9 cf  |              137.4 cf |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|
| Weight          |          4720 lbs |         5818 lbs  |              5761 lbs |
| City/Hwy MPG    |             16/23 |            13/19  |                 13/19 |
|-----------------|-------------------|-------------------|-----------------------|

Data taken from http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/

Assuming they use the LWB Lambda, it's exterior dimensions are comparable to the SWB GMT-900 with more room inside and much better gas mileage. Transverse-mounted engine aside, it makes all the sense in the world to make the switch.

-RBB

I TOTALLY DISAGREE......I don't care WHAT the actual numbers are......when you put them side-by-side, the Escalade simply has WAY more presence than the Lambdas. And THAT is what consumers will pick up on.

Our local Enterprise outfit has had Enclaves parked out on our lot right next to our load of Escalades......so I've been staring at them side-by-side for weeks now....and there is no question in my mind that Escalade enthusiasts will not appreciate a Lambda Escalade.....

This is a prime case of perception versus reality. The reality MAY be that the Lambdas are just as big.....but in this case, perception just simply does not back this up.

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Promises, promises! :smilewide:

Go $%#& yourself.

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Why not make the Escalade a unibody aluminum frame vehicle, with a diesel V6 and DOHC V8, both with a two mode hybrid option and 7-8 speed transmission. You don't get to "standard of the world" with Chevy/Buick platforms and front drive SUVs.

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Why not make the Escalade a unibody aluminum frame vehicle, with a diesel V6 and DOHC V8, both with a two mode hybrid option and 7-8 speed transmission. You don't get to "standard of the world" with Chevy/Buick platforms and front drive SUVs.

Personally I think the Escalade should stay BOF and RWD.

Otherwise never speak the name or put it on a vehicle again.

Either kill the Escalade or KEEP/redesign it... don't emasculate

yet ANOTHER legendary name.

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I was thinking Mercedes GL class proportions, but aluminum could make the Escalade lighter and give it a performance and fuel economy edge. Obviously rear drive, maybe even go after the Range Rover a little bit.

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I was thinking Mercedes GL class proportions, but aluminum could make the Escalade lighter and give it a performance and fuel economy edge. Obviously rear drive, maybe even go after the Range Rover a little bit.

way better idea than lambada, but the Escalade has always been BOF....

'aint broke, don't fix it!

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The Escalade is big, brutish, and brash... which is why it's so popular. I cannot fathom a Lambda based Escalade ever matching up to the current version in terms of looks, and aura.

A GL competitor for Caddy would be cool, though; although I'm not sure the Escalade name would be a great idea for it.

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Problem with that is the short-wheelbase Escalade accounts for something like 2/3rds of the Escalade volume. ESV and EXT really aren't movers like the shorty is.

I was thinking that exactly.

But the Escalade should be phased-out gradually. I do think that the replacement(s) should carry new names.

EXT should become a Zeta along the lines of the Denali XT, but I still don't see a lambda as a direct replacement (or as a caddy really).

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more and more... the GM of 2009 and beyond is a GM not worth saving or caring about. <_<

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The Escalade is big, brutish, and brash... which is why it's so popular. I cannot fathom a Lambda based Escalade ever matching up to the current version in terms of looks, and aura.

A GL competitor for Caddy would be cool, though; although I'm not sure the Escalade name would be a great idea for it.

Forget about the body, there is no reason a Lambda-based Escalade would look like anything except an evolution of the current truck. Supposedly all the lare SUVs would switch to a new light platform. Don't think of the rumored Escalade as a Cadillac Enclave, but as an evolution of the current model with a new platform. Take Ford's Explorer America concept. Looking at it you wouldn't think it was based on the same platform as the Flex or Taurus X. It's an evolution of the current design.

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Forget about the body, there is no reason a Lambda-based Escalade would look like anything except an evolution of the current truck. Supposedly all the lare SUVs would switch to a new light platform. Don't think of the rumored Escalade as a Cadillac Enclave, but as an evolution of the current model with a new platform. Take Ford's Explorer America concept. Looking at it you wouldn't think it was based on the same platform as the Flex or Taurus X. It's an evolution of the current design.

I agree, and it won't look anything like the current Lambdas.

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Woo-hoo! More front-wheel drive junk for Cadillac! I can hardly keep my excitement contained. Is it possible to get a Cadillac Delta II on the showroom floor too since, you know, the 1980s Cimmalier was such a good idea? :rolleyes:

Yet another reason for me to care more about the GM of Yesteryear and less about the GM of Today.