saturnd00d

GM is Behind Saturn

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"We have a very successful consumer brand with Saturn. We need to find the right business model," said LaNeve, adding that the company has received hundreds of letters from Saturn customers supporting the brand. "We are completely behind Saturn."

The brand has never turned a profit, that isn't success. They have had 18 years to find a business model and have yet to do it, too late now. GM management may be behind Saturn, but their bank account is not.

This is discouraging to me because it shows how much GM is refusing to change. They still want to keep all of these brands and think they can be viable with them. Market share is 19%, they don't need 8 brands or even 5 brands with that little amount of market share.

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Yes, GM is behind them...shoving them over the cliff.

What does a GM brand or exec have to do to qualify as hopeless? Saturn is a cool idea but a failed experiment---RW is a nice, smart guy, but a failure as a leader.

The Gov't should come and take the money away just for considering putting one tax-payer's dollar into Saturn at this time.

I'm sorry to all the true believers, but this is absurd.

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I think GM should position Saturn to be a small car brand again, because I feel that is one area GM is hugely lacking right now. Whether you like it or not, the Volt and Cruze aren't going to help GM as much as it needs them to. They need more small offerings, and I think Saturn should pick up that slack. Leave the midsize stuff to the other divisions as there is already an abundance of that stuff already within GM.

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Obviously, GM's PR department is going to say just about anything to the public right now to avoid future lawsuits. There is no law saying that they can't just privately starve Saturn to death -

GM's current financial crisis will justify just about anything, should GM be dragged into court in the future. There is a lot of doublespeak going on with GM. We're just going to have to sit back and enjoy the show as it unfolds.

If we thought '08 was interesting, I can't wait for 2009 to unfold. <_<

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they waited to get the money, and now said, i think we'll keep it.

Fine by me, i know i can still get my Astra's oil changed at a saturn dealer then......

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I've seen people write that Saturn has never turned a profit. I'm not in know on this, but is it still true? Published somewhere recently? With their stronger lineup now, if the economy turns around I could see Saturn doing well. Probably too late.

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I've seen people write that Saturn has never turned a profit. I'm not in know on this, but is it still true? Published somewhere recently? With their stronger lineup now, if the economy turns around I could see Saturn doing well. Probably too late.

I read somewhere that Saturn made a small profit in 1993. The rest of the years were money losers.

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For the many months that I checked, Saturn had the smallest sales % decline of any GM brand. That combined with the fact that there are just 31 Saturn employees makes we wonder how bad they can be doing. On the other hand if Toyota lost over over a $Billion, you can bet they aren't making money now. :D

I will be sad to see Saturn go. However, I believe GM when they say the dealer agreements with Saturn dealers make this easier.

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Saturn is like a bad wife you have neglected to pay much attention too till it was too late.

She is difficult to figure out.

She is expensive to keep up and brings little money in.

She is so far gone that that the new boob job and face peel is not fixing the rest of the problems.

But in the end you don't divorce her because it is cheaper to keep her. If you Divorce her your going to have to keep paying as no one will marry her and take her off your hand.

So you work on things and try to work things out. You still have a lot in common and with a little more attention [better Marketing of the Opel based cars] you make things work.

Unlike Pontiac Saturn has a positive rep with many non GM owners and a dealer system that seems to work. Also just the right niumber of dealers. IF they drop the big SUV and other odd cars not in the Saturn frame they could turn things around with some proper marketing. Product development is contained with Opel so the risk is little.

If they can restructure the product to be a tight unit of good product and market it much better than thery have. Lets face it most Saturn ads on tv are all the models in a show room but not specific models.

No one is going to buy Saturn unless someone gets crazy in China. So it is either make it work or kill it. Both have a price which one will GM pay?

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"We have a very successful consumer brand with Saturn. We need to find the right business model," said LaNeve, adding that the company has received hundreds of letters from Saturn customers supporting the brand. "We are completely behind Saturn."

The brand has never turned a profit, that isn't success. They have had 18 years to find a business model and have yet to do it, too late now. GM management may be behind Saturn, but their bank account is not.

This is discouraging to me because it shows how much GM is refusing to change. They still want to keep all of these brands and think they can be viable with them. Market share is 19%, they don't need 8 brands or even 5 brands with that little amount of market share.

LaNeve is referring to the appeal of the Saturn division, not profitability.

GM needs at least 6 divisions and they can all co-exist at 19% (which, BTW, GM's current share is 22%) ESPECIALLY if Pontiac is reduced to a "niche player" It's all about focus

So you work on things and try to work things out. You still have a lot in common and with a little more attention [better Marketing of the Opel based cars] you make things work.

Unlike Pontiac Saturn has a positive rep with many non GM owners and a dealer system that seems to work. Also just the right niumber of dealers. IF they drop the big SUV and other odd cars not in the Saturn frame they could turn things around with some proper marketing. Product development is contained with Opel so the risk is little.

:yes:

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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I think GM should position Saturn to be a small car brand again, because I feel that is one area GM is hugely lacking right now. Whether you like it or not, the Volt and Cruze aren't going to help GM as much as it needs them to. They need more small offerings, and I think Saturn should pick up that slack. Leave the midsize stuff to the other divisions as there is already an abundance of that stuff already within GM.

+1

The line topper should be the Astra with a whole portfolio below that. (Just like in my to GM plan :)) Just bring the Opels over and sell them as Saturns. Do we really want Buick selling B-segment junk?

For the many months that I checked, Saturn had the smallest sales % decline of any GM brand. That combined with the fact that there are just 31 Saturn employees makes we wonder how bad they can be doing.

+1

And what these people don't realize is that Saturn doesn't have the luxury of having a dealer on every corner either.

RE: The GM doublespeak.... What else is new?

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Worst comes to worst, shelve the Outlook, Aura, and Sky, build the Astra and Vue in the Spring Hill plant ONLY, and sell the whole Shebang as a stand alone company. After all this is what it was for most of its life, a small company that sold a couple of products, had their own factory and dealer network. Convince someone to buy it from GM and Bob's your uncle.

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Toyota has been cleaning their clock with 3.

GM and Toyota are two entirely different companies. What is good for one could be disastrous for the other and vice versa.

And what is so holy about Toyota anyhow? They posted their first loss this month, and it wasn't exactly just a few worthless pennies either. They're going to be lucky to break even in the future from what I understand.

Get real.

Edited by YellowJacket894
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Toyota has been cleaning their clock with 3.

Actaully it's much more than that in Japan and 4 in the U.s. (did you forget Subaru?).

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Just dump the Outlook and stop changing the Opel emblems out. Change the name to Opel and just import what they are building.

Then also Market each car. Cars like the Astra and the like are mysteries to many. I have heard more than one person see one and ask what it was. That is a sign that GM is not doing its job.

Now where do we get the money to market it better?

That is always the problem around here we all get good ideas but never factor in the cost of things like marketing or saving Pontiac etc.

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Toyota has been cleaning their clock with 3.

Oh really?

Last time I checked, Toyota wasn't exactly "cleaning their clock" here where GM has 8 divisions.

Besides; Toyota has 3 STRONG divisions and a bunch of buyers that buy on name alone.

If GM thinks it can structure itself like Toyota and succeed, then we're in for one helluva show. Different companies, different cultures, different perceptions and different outcomes.

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Saturn has been a waste of money from the start. Strave them of product, if it is a choice between Saturn and Pontiac. Keep the brand that has a storied past and promising future, duh that is Pontiac. Screw Saturn, it sucked up money that could have been making better Buicks, Chevrolets, Cadillacs, Pontiacs and GMCs for too many years already.

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Just dump the Outlook and stop changing the Opel emblems out. Change the name to Opel and just import what they are building.

Then also Market each car. Cars like the Astra and the like are mysteries to many. I have heard more than one person see one and ask what it was. That is a sign that GM is not doing its job.

Now where do we get the money to market it better?

That is always the problem around here we all get good ideas but never factor in the cost of things like marketing or saving Pontiac etc.

You make Saturn and Pontiac "cult" divisions.

You build a LIFESTYLE around them and recruit (conquest) the most loyal customers in the market. Then you wait a few years (because it'll take a while) and watch the sales grow. Then you can market them better when you have the money.

LIFESTYLE = 1) unparalleled customer service. 2) an aftermarket of endless "expression" items. 3) events and 'rituals' to promote a feeling of family. 4) on going communication with the 'client' that bought your car. 5) become active in something greater (support a cause)

There are TONS of things GM could do (relatively cheaply) to promote this kind of thing. They need to take this OPPORTUNITY to re-engineer their brands from the ground up and really develop loyalty. Especially with the new niche brands. The brands are a valuable resource, if only GM knew how to use them appropriately.

A good example of this is Mini. I have a friend that is an avid Mini person. The company mails her things all of the time, there is tons of aftermarket and she feels like she is a part of something bigger (i.e. a family)

That is the only way GM will be able to save them if they turn them into niche players. And, let's face it, if they become niche players they're extraneous anyway. So what do we have to lose.

Let the big 4 (Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac) go after share. Saturn and Pontiac (and Saab maybe) can go after hearts.

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Toyota doesn't own all of Subaru, and Dihatsu is rather small. I was comparing GM's 8 to Toyota's 3 in North America. GM has Opel, Vauxhall, Holden too, which is more baggage than what Subaru or Dihatsu are.

Toyota posted an operating loss, but their net profit for 2008 is expected to be $550 million. Which isn't good, but they kept it in the black, which hardly any other automaker will do this year. They make generic, mediocre cars, but their culture and business strategy kills GM's.

Toyota's brands are strong because they continually provide them with new product and market them constantly. GM's brands have to take turns getting new products, so certain brands and models get dated and create a poor image.

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Toyota doesn't own all of Subaru, and Daihatsu is rather small. I was comparing GM's 8 to Toyota's 3 in North America. GM has Opel, Vauxhall, Holden too, which is more baggage than what Subaru or Daihatsu are.

Toyota posted an operating loss, but their net profit for 2008 is expected to be $550 million. Which isn't good, but they kept it in the black, which hardly any other automaker will do this year. They make generic, mediocre cars, but their culture and business strategy kills GM's.

The Opel brand is not sold directly in the United States. In fact, the only Opel models here are the Astra, Vue, and Sky. And they're indirectly sold here as Saturns. The Aura has little in common with the Vectra and the Outlook is exclusive to North America. Vauxhalls are Opels with a market-exclusive name and badge and right-hand drive. The same can almost be said for Holden as their only exclusive product is the Commodore, and it's sold here as a Pontiac, not a Holden.

You can't count Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden as they are not directly sold in the United States. You can only count Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, Cadillac, Hummer, and GMC.

My god, do you have any common sense at all? Everything I just said is pretty much basic knowledge.

And, for the last and final time, Toyota's culture and business strategy just couldn't work at GM. Granted, GM does need to change those two things, but following Toyota's tooth-and-nail would not work. It would be disastrous.

Edited by YellowJacket894
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Just dump the Outlook and stop changing the Opel emblems out. Change the name to Opel and just import what they are building.

Then also Market each car. Cars like the Astra and the like are mysteries to many. I have heard more than one person see one and ask what it was. That is a sign that GM is not doing its job.

Now where do we get the money to market it better?

Agreed.

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