Camino LS6

The oppressive conformity of the sedan

86 posts in this topic

It probably ticks me off more than any other aspect of the current automotive industry.

I

HATE

4-doors!

Why must every damn car have four freakin doors?

I would choose any other bodystyle over the bland sedan, it is absolutely lame that so many cars are only offered in that oh-so-boring form.

Over the past few decades, we have lost so many opportunities to have had interesting versions of cars that restricted to sedan-only form.

Imagine what a b-body Impala SS coupe and convertible would have been like.

Or more recently, a G8 Coupe ( or wagon , or convertible, or the ST) could have given me an option other than the nuclear one I've chosen.

But no, all we get is three versions of a *&$$$##$@ SEDAN!

Screw the masses, and the one-size-fits-all laziness of the manufacturers.

Give me something interesting for a change.

Rant over - thanks for listening.

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Well GM has, for the moment, the Camaro and CTS coupe coming.

Chrysler has the Challenger (and I think even with four doors, the Charger is anything but boring, plus there's that shop that's making it into a coupe).

A Warngler has 2 doors. Hell it can have no doors! :P

Ford has the Mustang, maybe a future MKR

Mercedes has a few coupes, even a couple hardtops that haven't been bastardized yet.

Audi has the sexy A5 and R8 (probably a bit too pricy)

BMW has the 3 series coupe and 6 series and Z4.

Porsche has the 911 and Boxter.

Scion has the tC :P

Infiniti has the G35

and so on.

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when your fat and old its easier to get in the back

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yeah because they are the only ones getting loans for cars. or pay straight cash. which if they make a next gen solstice/sky redline/GXP i will write the $35,000 check they day I can order it. The current one gets me everyday can't wait for whats next.

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Really, most people carry more than one passenger regularly, especially married couples, couples with children, and anyone who socializes with their parents or in-laws. As such, a sedan is the most practical vehicle type, with the most appeal, and therefore the most potential sales. And it's not like days of old where sedans uniformly drive poorly; many brands offer fun-to-drive sedans now.

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Strange but I too hate a sedan and will resist buying one for the rest of my life... but a 4 door SUV/crossover is fine w/me.

We need more coupes. G8, Malibu and LaCrosse from GM, Fusion/Milan from Ford, and Avenger from Chrysler.

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I find driving a coo-pay to be quite beneficial when it's time for group activities where my friends and I all carpool. I rarely have to drive because my friends don't want to squeeze into a cramped backseat. Of course, that might also have something to do with the fact that they don't want to listen to heavy metal at loud volumes, but that's a story for another day. . .

Edited by Enzora
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Camino's point hit me back when Pontiac starting offering a 4-dr GP.

I agree- we need more 2-drs.

Of course a big part of the problem is that modern cars have gotten so small & cramped, the practicality of a 2-dr has been effectively damned. And I'm not even that big on that degree of practicality.

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Of course a big part of the problem is that modern cars have gotten so small & cramped, the practicality of a 2-dr has been effectively damned. And I'm not even that big on that degree of practicality.

!! Getting into the back of the final generation Riv wasn't fun even when I was young and limber!

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DF,

You forgot to Add Camry Solara, and Honda Accord 2dr. What a fine piece of machinery the former is. :P

I think sedans and now the crossovers are for the people who agree with conformity or have heard mentality. I remember my ex used to take her toddler niece and nephew in a 4th gen F-body and never once bitched of having a four door. She said it took her a couple of minutes more to load the kids for not having an extra pair of doors. But the satisfaction of driving the two doors was far better.

I prefer a coupe. You have a rigid body structure, plus it gives an appearance of being racy, despite some being not so.

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:shrug: Like Oldsmoboi said, I was never fond of two doors, even when I was small and had little to no problem fitting into the back seat.

As someone who has customarily shuttled people around as the driver (why do few of my friends like driving?), I've found 4 doors to be much less of a hassle, especially in my adult years.

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Camino's point hit me back when Pontiac starting offering a 4-dr GP.

I agree- we need more 2-drs.

Of course a big part of the problem is that modern cars have gotten so small & cramped, the practicality of a 2-dr has been effectively damned. And I'm not even that big on that degree of practicality.

You've nailed how I feel on this issue. I think there needs to be a Malibu Coupe at the very least, but in terms of my own personal preferences.... I will always buy sedans, mainly because of practicality, space etc. Most of the new cars cars that I really like today are sedans (CTS, DTS, Lucerne, 2010 LaX, Malibu, 2010 Taurus, Fusion, Impala, G8) and I don't think I'd like to see many of them in Coupe form (CTS, G8 and maybe the Malibu)

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Really, most people carry more than one passenger regularly, especially married couples, couples with children, and anyone who socializes with their parents or in-laws. As such, a sedan is the most practical vehicle type, with the most appeal, and therefore the most potential sales. And it's not like days of old where sedans uniformly drive poorly; many brands offer fun-to-drive sedans now.

The tyranny of the masses, and the death of individuality.

Choices are good - we need more of them.

And GM was positioned better than anyone to offer them - but theyv'e squandered that advantage, and now it has vaporized. In their slavish devotion to the dream of volume, they have killed creativity in their products. They have become terminal followers instead of the groundbreakers they should be.

Grovelling at the altar of the least common denominator will be their undoing.

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Well, as Reg would say, women (and couples w/ kids) influence the majority of car purchases, so practicality wins out.

I've had a mix of 2dr coupes, 2 and 4dr SUVs over the years. For daily commuter use, 90% of the time it's just me in the car, I prefer a 4dr SUV or 4dr luxury sedan for practicality's sake because of:

1. parking lots and parking garages. Almost everywhere I've worked, I've parked in a garage, and occasionally surface lots. A 4dr is just plain easier to get in and out of in tight parking than 2drs.

2. And when I go out to lunch or dinner w/ a group of people and drive, a 4dr is just easier to get people in and out.

And it's not like in the old days when 4drs were usually boring...their are a lot of great sport sedans out there--Audis, BMWs, the G8, Charger, etc to name a few.

I figure I will always have at least 3 cars--- a 4dr medium-to-large luxury sedan for a daily driver, a 4dr SUV for a winter daily driver and occasionally hauling stuff, and a fun coupe or convertible for weekend and occasional use. For the last 8 years, I had the 4dr SUV and 2 sports coupes.

Edited by moltar
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although its not a great example but,

Impala - Monte Carlo The sedan got more sales.

I'm sorry to all of you but "Big Car" companies have to settle at mediocrity, Its what sells to the masses. We are a special group that never wants to settle on the bland crap they put out but they can't specialize a car for each and everyone of us because overhead would be insane and just not practical. GM sells millions of cars so they do something right. I know you will say BMW, but there not average and don't come close in sales. Toyota the build blando-Sedans and they've done very well. GM can't afford to make all these niche cars and until coupes sell in masses they won't build um.

I think the G6 sedan out sells the coupe and same with the cobalt as I see them on the roads more and i understand that's not the best measurement.

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although its not a great example but,

Impala - Monte Carlo The sedan got more sales.

I'm sorry to all of you but "Big Car" companies have to settle at mediocrity, Its what sells to the masses. We are a special group that never wants to settle on the bland crap they put out but they can't specialize a car for each and everyone of us because overhead would be insane and just not practical. GM sells millions of cars so they do something right. I know you will say BMW, but there not average and don't come close in sales. Toyota the build blando-Sedans and they've done very well. GM can't afford to make all these niche cars and until coupes sell in masses they won't build um.

I think the G6 sedan out sells the coupe and same with the cobalt as I see them on the roads more and i understand that's not the best measurement.

Shooting for the middle every time just guarantees low-margin and heavy competition.

Salvation lies elsewhere.

The over-duplication of the sedan across both brands and companies leads to market over-saturation and an artificially high level of competition for the same buyer.

Throwing all of your chips into that basket exclusively is foolish.

Yes, I do think I have a better answer - but I'll keep it to myself for now.

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I think the automakers would build more coupes if there was more demand. There were a ton of coupes of different shapes, sizes, niches 30 years ago. Very few now. The demand isn't there, don't know why, but it is what it is.

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I think the automakers would build more coupes if there was more demand. There were a ton of coupes of different shapes, sizes, niches 30 years ago. Very few now. The demand isn't there, don't know why, but it is what it is.

I don't buy that argument.

The sedan has been pushed by all of the manufacturers in an effort to limit costs. The result being that coupes have been only grudgingly produced without the sort of marketing and support any entry into the market would require.

Much like FWD, the sedan has been inculcated into public perception in a fusion of cost-savings and marketing.

In short, the manufacturers have taken the easy way out. But they have also narrowed the scope of the market to their detriment by creating undue competition for a single segment.

This mistaken approach was also what drove the now dead wholesale exapansion of the SUV market.

A balanced portfolio of product would be a superior and sustainable strategy.

Flexibility of that portfolio in production volumes for its components makes far more sense than chasing the center of the market to the exclusion of its other components.

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I don't buy that argument.

The sedan has been pushed by all of the manufacturers in an effort to limit costs. The result being that coupes have been only grudgingly produced without the sort of marketing and support any entry into the market would require.

Much like FWD, the sedan has been inculcated into public perception in a fusion of cost-savings and marketing.

In short, the manufacturers have taken the easy way out. But they have also narrowed the scope of the market to their detriment by creating undue competition for a single segment.

This mistaken approach was also what drove the now dead wholesale exapnsion of the SUV market.

A balanced portfolio of product would be a superior and sustainable strategy.

Flexibility of that portfolio in production volumes for its components makes far more sense than chasing the center of the market to the exclusion of its other components.

The thing is, when they have offered coupes, they don't sell well...look at the Grand Prix coupe and Monte Carlo...they didn't sell that well and were cancelled (though I think the release of the GTO was more why the GP 2dr went away). Beyond the occasional 2dr version of a mainstream 4dr (like the Cobalt and Focus), Accord, Altima, etc), the only 2drs that seem to sell well are specific sports coupes with no 4dr version (i.e. Mustang, Camaro, Challenger), sports cars (Corvette, 350Z, etc) or luxury and higher priced sports coupes (3-series, CLK, G37, etc).

The mass market just doesn't seem to demand 'regular' 2drs anymore. i.e. Malibu 2dr? Fusion 2dr? Impala 2dr? LaCrosse 2dr? Would they sell? A G8 2dr badged as a G8 GTO probably would sell, though.

But I can definitely see your point about production rationalisation... if the 2dr is only 10-20%, it makes sense to only have the 4dr. It's good business to focus on the profit centers.

One thing that is interesting about how carmakers work in different markets is how much more diverse the Astra (or Focus) lines are in Europe--3drs, 4drs, 5drs, wagons, coupe-convertibles, etc. It seems like in some markets automakers can offer a broad range of bodystyles because the sales are there, in other markets, the sales aren't there.

Edited by moltar
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The thing is, when they have offered coupes, they don't sell well...look at the Grand Prix coupe and Monte Carlo...they didn't sell that well and were cancelled (though I think the release of the GTO was more why the GP 2dr went away). Beyond the occasional 2dr version of a mainstream 4dr (like the Cobalt and Focus), Accord, Altima, etc), the only 2drs that seem to sell well are specific sports coupes with no 4dr version (i.e. Mustang, Camaro, Challenger), sports cars (Corvette, 350Z, etc) or luxury and higher priced sports coupes (3-series, CLK, G37, etc).

The mass market just doesn't seem to demand 'regular' 2drs anymore. i.e. Malibu 2dr? Fusion 2dr? Impala 2dr? LaCrosse 2dr? Would they sell? A G8 2dr badged as a G8 GTO probably would sell, though.

The thing is, in their myopic concentration on sedans, other variants are afterthoughts at best.

That is a mistake.

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Whatever happened to the good old days when practically everything came in tow and four door post, two and four door hardtop, and station wagon form? Something for everybody. What a novel idea.

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Whatever happened to the good old days when practically everything came in tow and four door post, two and four door hardtop, and station wagon form? Something for everybody. What a novel idea.

Different time and place..GM could do that when they had 50% market share. Today, most Genericans want their compact or midsize 4dr sedan in silver, white, gold, or black and are happy with that much choice.

Edited by moltar
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