Buick News: Rumorpile: Grand National, GNX, and T-Type Making A Comeback

[William Maley]

William Maley

Staff Writer - CheersandGears.com

November 29, 2012

The Buick Grand National, T-Type, and GNX. Built during the mid to late eighties, these three were some of quickest vehicles on the market thanks to a 3.8L turbo V6 and didn't share the old person image that the other Buicks had. Now, the Grand National, T-Type, and GNX could be making a return to the Buick lineup.

Inside Line has learned from a 'reliable source' that GM is planning to resurrect the three nameplates onto a new RWD sedan. The sedan will use the Alpha RWD platform and be around the same size as the Cadillac ATS. The sedans will also share steering, brakes and suspension from the ATS.

The Grand National and T-Type will share powertrain and suspension calibrations. The only difference between the two will be colors you can order: T-Type will come with a full color lineup, Grand National will come in black only. Power is highly rumored to be a twin-turbocharged 3.6-liter V6, expected to produce between 350 and 400 horsepower. As for the GNX, that will likely use a V8 engine (possibly the new LT1). Transmissions will be a six-speed manual and automatic.

Now whether this actually comes to fruition or now is the big question. Inside Line says we might hear something about it at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show.

Source: Inside Line

William Maley is a staff writer for Cheers & Gears. He can be reached at [email protected] or you can follow him on twitter at @realmudmonster.

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[ocnblu]

:drool:

...but a SEDAN? oy. They gotta build me up, then drop me a little. I hope this is more than a rumor... and that there's a coupe version as well.

There might be hope for GM yet. This is what they need to fill the gaps left by some of the lost, beloved brands.

Edited November 26, 2012 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm thinking the coupe may be larger, more luxury sport than sport premium, and have the first initial R.

[Robert Hall]

Interesting ideas...hard to believe there could be sporty RWD Buicks again...

[Drew Dowdell]

Also, a twin Turbo 3.6 would be well over 350hp. I would expect that number from a twin turbo 3.0 however.

[David]

I love the Idea of RWD with V8

[Camino LS6]

No

More

Sedans!

[hyperv6]

I am not too suprised here as I see the Alpha had to have been going to Buick in some degree.

I would not lament the coupe as I suspect a Riv is in the works at some point too. The Sedan will take care of the majority of the sales and the coupe will fill in a little more.

Might also note the first coupe will be the Camaro in 2015 on the Alpha so a coupe would come along later too.

Time will tell if there is anything to this but generally I suspect there is and may be more than we think. We have yet to see the rebirth of Buick yet as all they have now are pre chapter 11 cars. I suspect there will be more than one suprise at Buick in the future.

[David]

This should help recover the costs spent on developing the ATS. Spread the wealth of an awesome platform around to bring better quality auto's to everyone.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

How far can ATS's platform be stretched is the question. I was told it was not a large or medium sized car platform as they said Camaro was going to shrink on Alpha. We have seen small Rivieras before ( 1986-1988) and you know how that turned out.

GM is looking to get a return on its investment. Right now this is all speculation and we will have to wait and see. There a lot of gaps in GM's line up..

Right now the biggest Buick is La Crosse at 197 inches and the Enclave which is not a sedan or coupe.

[Carguy]

These should be performance versions of a new RWD/AWD Regal replacement built on Alpha in Coupe,Sedan and wagon body styles as a return of the Regal family of models! The sedan should be sized between the Cadillac ATS and the upcoming next gen CTS so as not to truly compete with those models! The GNX should be a coupe only Turbo 3.6L V6 version while a gen 5 V8 version should be a retro muscle GSX with unique styling and features!

[ocnblu]

I agree with Carguy, this needs to replace the Regal, which currently is being eaten alive by the Verano.

[Paolino]

Not to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how many times do we get our hopes up for something like this that's so far away, and then you get something lackluster? True, the ATS is loved by critics, but we're talking about the 2014 Auto Show... that's quite a bit of time away.

[hyperv6]

Well GM has to use the Alpha for more than just three models and Buick should easily find their own space for one. The new larger CTS is key in telling how large this car can go.

Also the Regal was just a fast patch to a bare line up. That is why the Verano is so close as they know they would replace the Regal with a slightly larger vehicle. Also this could give Opel a boost in Europe as it needs to move away from the Chevy line up.

A sedan is a give. I would suspect Buick may see the coupe in a Riv. As for the wagon not going to happen. Wagon sales are still too soft for all that keep trying. Now they could offer one in Europe and sell enough there.

The key here is it is ok to use the GSX name but we all need to forget the idea this car as being a second coming of the muscle car. I suspect this car will be more aimed as an RWD A4 like sedan.

I see this car being nicley optioned and coming in around $40,000+. I sure I may be wrong but I would be suprised if they do offer the V8 and if they do it will be very limited. One does not want to step on the CTS V ground with this car. If they do a V8 it will be with much less power.

I could see the Lacrosse getting a make over and turning into the XTS of Buick and in time being replaced.

That is my guess but it will be fun to watch and see what happens. There is so much that will happen at Buick and so little info being leaked.

Edited November 27, 2012 by hyperv6

[William Maley]

Not to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how many times do we get our hopes up for something like this that's so far away, and then you get something lackluster? True, the ATS is loved by critics, but we're talking about the 2014 Auto Show... that's quite a bit of time away.

No, I'm with you Paolino. I'm not sure if I really believe this or not.

[ocnblu]

Well, Buick should have some Alpha cars.

[Robert Hall]

Not to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how many times do we get our hopes up for something like this that's so far away, and then you get something lackluster? True, the ATS is loved by critics, but we're talking about the 2014 Auto Show... that's quite a bit of time away.

Only little over a year away...

Edited November 27, 2012 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting ideas...hard to believe there could be sporty RWD Buicks again...

...and I am lusting at the thought....

I agree with Carguy, this needs to replace the Regal, which currently is being eaten alive by the Verano.

Regal is still a seriously sweet ride though....

[Robert Hall]

Interesting ideas...hard to believe there could be sporty RWD Buicks again...

...and I am lusting at the thought....

I agree with Carguy, this needs to replace the Regal, which currently is being eaten alive by the Verano.

Regal is still a seriously sweet ride though....

It's one of GM's best looking cars currently, IMO....love the rear end design and roofline...looks so good in that brown..

[smk4565]

What makes this very possible is the Firebird is gone and they are going to move Camaro to Alpha. So basically you take the Camaro which will probably have turbo 4, V6 (maybe turbo) and LT1 V8 and that is your basis for Buick. They can change a few body panels and front and rear facias to get the exterior styling to work, then give the Grand National an interior more like the other Buicks. I think it wouldn't be hard to do.

If the Camaro (not counting a ZL1) sits in the $25-40k range, I assume the Buick would have to be at least $30k, if not $35-45k, since a Regal is about $30k and a Grand National has to be more than a Regal. So then you have a $35-45k, 350 hp V6 turbo coupe which is going to look better than the ATS. GNX could easily step on the ATS's toes, and if you price the GNX at $50k or more, you sort of price it out of the market, and a Regal GS is $40k, so a GNX could easily be over $50k and into Corvette or mid-level Cadillac territory.

[z28luvr01]

I'm not sure what Holden's plans are for Alpha, but given the Holden/Buick connection in the Far East, it's not out of the realm of possibility for Holden Alphas to make their way over here as Buicks. I also wouldn't count out a Statesman-based Chinese Buick Park Avenue coming here when the Caprice PPV runs its course. Just food for thought.

[Drew Dowdell]

How far can ATS's platform be stretched is the question. I was told it was not a large or medium sized car platform as they said Camaro was going to shrink on Alpha. We have seen small Rivieras before ( 1986-1988) and you know how that turned out.

GM is looking to get a return on its investment. Right now this is all speculation and we will have to wait and see. There a lot of gaps in GM's line up..

Right now the biggest Buick is La Crosse at 197 inches and the Enclave which is not a sedan or coupe.

Alpha can be stretch to just slightly above CTS size. With the better packaging of Alpha, that would make for a nice mid-size coupe by today's standards.

Camaro needs to shrink on the outside and grow on the inside... again, the better packaging of Alpha should allow for that.

If not, there's always Omega platform.

[hyperv6]

Here is what I see. The Alpha will replace the VF at some point as Holden will down size their RWD sedan to better fit the world market. The Omega will be left to handle the larger lower volume needs.

GM did not sink this much time and money into the Alpha for a couple Cadillacs and a Camaro. The new Camaro will be much smaller and redesigned to be more useful. While the show car looks are cool they do make you pay a price in many areas of usefullness and visibility. The new Camaro will play well with the Mustang but also show appeal to the growing Asian RWD coupe market. If GM ignores this segment they will pay the price later.

I also expect the next Camaro will find it's way into the Holden line up as will other Chevys like the Impala. What you see in Chevy will also be mirrored in the Holden line up less just a few models and options. Holden and Chevy will be 88% alike in most ways. LHD and a lion head will be some of the greatest differences.

The Regal is a very nice car but it is getting older and will be replaced soon. Now a better sized car with similar styling and RWD would have a great appeal in this segment.

Again I still hope people here will grasp even if they use the old names these cars will be much different vs the old GN and GNX. This is not the second coming of the muscle car but the coming of a breed of Buick that can play on the world market not just on Woodward ave.

Mark is a smart guy and knows GM pretty well has the FWD line up set but he knows there is ground to gain with RWD and lets not forget the Alpha can also go AWD for those who demand it.

The Alpha is the more flexible platform that the Zeta just never fully became due to the lack of development money.

Money can really make a difference in automakers getting what they want not just what they can afford.

[Drew Dowdell]

To me, the biggest advantage of using Alpha is that this Buick doesn't need to weigh as much ...as... a... Buick.

[Camino LS6]

While there is quite a bit of good to say about Alpha, I'll start paying attention when they diversify the body configuration.

[hyperv6]

The diversity will start when there is more demand for some versions. You will get a coupe soon in the Camaro and more will come from that wheel base. As for a wagon I would not hold my breath.

[Robert Hall]

The diversity will start when there is more demand for some versions. You will get a coupe soon in the Camaro and more will come from that wheel base. As for a wagon I would not hold my breath.

They will probably do a wagon of some sort for markets where people buy wagons (not the US).

[regfootball]

verano's a good car. But regal is also.

ATS appeal is it's ability to have the unique chassis. badge engineering an alpha to buick makes little sense on the surface. if we want distinction between caddy and buick, why would a buick get alpha? even if it ends up an inbetween an ATS and CTS in size.

And RWD only cars get killed in the market place in snow states. Caddy is priced high enough that they just now say, let the customer pay for AWD. Buick is not in that place.

It only became 10x more evident what i already knew before i did the car sales gig, after i did it, maybe 5% or less of buyers came looking for RWD. Nearly without exception, FWD was the expectation and really nearly a majority now want AWD too.

If we are trying to sell lighter weight cars with better FE that customers want in bad weather states, making a large percent of your cars RWD only makes em unsellable in bad weather states. No amount of marketing, etc to the customer to the contrary will convince them otherwise.

[hyperv6]

The diversity will start when there is more demand for some versions. You will get a coupe soon in the Camaro and more will come from that wheel base. As for a wagon I would not hold my breath.

They will probably do a wagon of some sort for markets where people buy wagons (not the US).

I agree if this car becomes an Opel.

[Z-06]

This strategy is acceptable if:

1. The cars come in different body styles. This is a must as three sedans just does not make sense, even if they come in different sizes. Buick will end up with six sedan nameplates.

2. Even if there is a sedan, make sure just put one powerful engine in the car and not dilute it later with lower engines to compete with ATS. Moreover the mill should be different than any of the ATS mills.

3. The cars are not destined to be targetting high sales volume.

Alpha needs to be subsidized but need not have to be blindly badge engineered. Chevrolet can see two sports coupes (no sedan) - a BRZ competitor and Camaro and will be the volume competitor. This is where Pontiac/Oldsmobile would have been a good subsidizer for GM, but I digress.

[ocnblu]

For an Alpha Buick to work, it definitely needs to look completely different from it's cross-town platform mates. Buick's best designs over the decades have been full of drama. '53 Skylark. '63 Riv. '71 Riv...

That one rendering from a couple of years back that we all liked would do nicely. Fastback roof, assertive waterfall grille, hood-mounted ventiports, sweepspear shoulder line, finishing off with angry, horizontal taillights... and a potent engine powering the rear wheels. Pure Buick heaven.

[Camino LS6]

[David]

I agree that I would love to see this from Buick on the lot. I think it would drive in allot of younger people to the brand.

[Camino LS6]

I want to see some other Alpha concepts pronto!

[hyperv6]

Why Concepts? Right now I would say the Production cars are closer than you realize. The Camaro and CTS are just around the corner and I would expect if they plan to do a Buick it would not be far behind. GM has a lot coming and they just don't say much till they are 18 months out anymore. A Buick could be under a ATS body as we speak.

[regfootball]

This should help recover the costs spent on developing the ATS. Spread the wealth of an awesome platform around to bring better quality auto's to everyone.

is that badge engineering?

[Camino LS6]

Why Concepts? Right now I would say the Production cars are closer than you realize. The Camaro and CTS are just around the corner and I would expect if they plan to do a Buick it would not be far behind. GM has a lot coming and they just don't say much till they are 18 months out anymore. A Buick could be under a ATS body as we speak.

To show the possibilities of the platform beyond what we already know is coming , of course. Many configurations are possible, and I'd like to see some of them explored.

This should help recover the costs spent on developing the ATS. Spread the wealth of an awesome platform around to bring better quality auto's to everyone.

is that badge engineering?

Not when properly done.

[hyperv6]

Companies today tend to stick to more realistic concepts unless they have some wild hair.

GM has learned it's lessons of late. As cool as the SSR and Camaro show cars where they also paid the price with issues that most production cars do not have. At time the concept design helps but in the long run it also hurts as people have to live with these cars daily too.

Also if they do not stick to the show car they catch hell if they do and then later catch hell because they did.

Edited December 27, 2012 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

What could be more realistic than expanding the use of an existing platform?

[Drew Dowdell]

No concepts... stick with stuff heading towards production.

[Camino LS6]

What I'm talking about are production variants as concepts, not vaporware concepts.

A Buick Alpha, an ATS coupe...

It's a valid way to test ideas.

Especially ideas that could be produced.

[Drew Dowdell]

ATS coupe is already in the cards for production. I don't think we'd see it any sooner than April in NY, but next November at LA is more likely.

[Camino LS6]

Such slow rollouts these days - we'll all die of boredom by the time something interesting comes along at this rate.

Let's see a few good "what ifs".

[Camino LS6]

Another car show season is getting long-in-the- tooth, and I'm still bored to tears.

Show us something GM!

[Drew Dowdell]

I think you'll want to go to bed until NY Camino.

[Camino LS6]

And at New York?

[Drew Dowdell]

Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevies, and maybe some SUVs in there. Expect NY to be the show with the most concept cars this year.

[Camino LS6]

I look forward to that.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Me too! I love going to the NYIAS every year and learning this news is going to make it that much better of a show this year

[PONTIAC06]

This should help recover the costs spent on developing the ATS. Spread the wealth of an awesome platform around to bring better quality auto's to everyone.

is that badge engineering?

Is the VW Touareg, Audi Q7, and Porsche Cayenne badge engineering?

Same principle, just have to work harder at differentiating them.

Edited February 1, 2013 by PONTIAC06