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William Maley

Alfa Romeo Scraps Plans For Giulia Wagon :Comments

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On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:30 PM, dfelt said:

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

Edited by ccap41

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7 minutes ago, Stew said:

There is still no reason to call the entire platform junk as it was actually co-designed for the entire brand.  The Engines are the new Chrysler turbo 4, and the transmissions still the venerable ZF 8 speed.  The only worry is the turbo 6 which has to be putting out a ton of boost with it's small displacement to be putting out the HP it does.   And this is so different from those old cars in form, shape, and even drive wheels it is hard for me to not give it a chanc3e.  Like I said, it is like me never buying a GM being of transmission issues in my old W-bodies or the front end failures in my old B-bodies.  Simply another example of the hypocrisy of blasting 1 brand yet making excuses for another so what is bad for one isn't for the other.  I am pretty sure those W-bodies were built well after Alfa had left the US......

For the record I am only referring to Alfa and Fiat and regardless of what parts they are sharing, it is still being run by company with an entire line of unreliable cars with horrible resale. Sorry but the numbers and the reports don't lie (And no I am not talking about that rag known as consumer reports). And using one bad GM tranny vs. decades of Fiat garbage is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. GM had their issues but it is not even close to comparable to what Fiat and Alfa had going on. In short, it was crap then and it is crap now (again, speaking of Fiat and Alfa only here).

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2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

For the record I am only referring to Alfa and Fiat and regardless of what parts they are sharing, it is still being run by company with an entire line of unreliable cars with horrible resale. Sorry but the numbers and the reports don't lie (And no I am not talking about that rag known as consumer reports). And using one bad GM tranny vs. decades of Fiat garbage is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. GM had their issues but it is not even close to comparable to what Fiat and Alfa had going on. In short, it was crap then and it is crap now (again, speaking of Fiat and Alfa only here).

LMAO, that is just my example of personal experience.  The fact is for the most part GM had a lo of garbage straight up into the 00s as did Ford.  Again, you show my point of making excuses for brand A just to chastise brand B. 

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

You know me, i am crazy enough to give Jag a try or Alfa, at least if I am not looking at the top model.   I have developed a certain love for the new C class coupe myself and love the AMG versions.  I am, of course, wildly smitten with the ATS coupe, even with it's issues.  I am also starting to grow into the new A5/S5, though I think the first gen still has a nicer exterior. 

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41 minutes ago, Stew said:

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

I agree that everyone was building less than stellar quality auto's, Fiat just built the worse there was and that led to them tucking tail and running out of the country leaving many people with worthless auto's and a useless warranty.

My dad had an auto repair shop. #1 auto for engine replacement was Fiats and the biggest request was to put in something anything that was reasonable price and better quality than the Fiat powertrain.

#2 was conversions of American so called Diesel engines, really just a converted gas engine to diesel and terrible. 

No matter what, I helped my dad do many of these engine swaps and of course he put my two older sister and I through College doing this kind of work.

End result is anyone with any real history and experience with FIAT knows they are far below the rest of the auto industry. As such FIAT should have planned for a flawless auto introduction in the US. 

They Did Not and as such we have the current crap round 2 that I expect will eventually see Fiat / Alfa leaving the US market in the future.

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30 minutes ago, Stew said:

LMAO, that is just my example of personal experience.  The fact is for the most part GM had a lo of garbage straight up into the 00s as did Ford.  Again, you show my point of making excuses for brand A just to chastise brand B. 

You know me, i am crazy enough to give Jag a try or Alfa, at least if I am not looking at the top model.   I have developed a certain love for the new C class coupe myself and love the AMG versions.  I am, of course, wildly smitten with the ATS coupe, even with it's issues.  I am also starting to grow into the new A5/S5, though I think the first gen still has a nicer exterior. 

Umm no. The difference in what you are saying and what I'm saying is quite simple actually. The ENTIRE Fiat/Alfa line was garbage than and is garbage today. That cannot be said about GM, Ford, or Chrysler for that matter. Sorry you have a blindness to them but I am not going to sugarcoat the many issues with Fiat or Alfa and there are many. 

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The truth is Italian cars in general have been sub part for decades. Since WWII they were cheap and quirky.


Even the Ferrari for too many years have suffered rust issues and the dreaded 30,000 mile overhaul. Most models are sold before that as the thrill is gone and they do not want to spend that much money changing belts and ball joints. The new models are much better but still have many very expensive things that need done that most normal cars do not need.

I almost bought a Dino once. It was only $15K and no one wanted it. But the fear of rust and quality issues kept me out of it.  Smart move back in 1985. Now today they are worth $500K. LOL!  Who would have ever knew that the car everyone hated would become the car everyone wants today. 

English cars only got better with the influx of German MFGs. French are still an acquired taste. Good diesels but ugly and rusty cars.  Germans solid and durable but some odd engineering at BMW at times and at times cold soulless feel.

They all have their good and bad but with Italian cars styling was always great as was sound but quality was never a thing they were known for even years ago.

Lambo only got better under VW.

 

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46 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Close, I'm 28. Oh I'm just giving you a hard time, bud. It very well may be garbage quality. I just think it is a very aesthetically pleasing vehicle. Would I buy one today if I had to buy from this class? More than likely, no. I like the C Class the most as it suits my laid back driving style the most. Ohhhhh or the XE... but then we're back into the reliability issue of Jaguar. Maybe they're better than they were 10 years ago but I'd still have to pass for now.

Jaguar frustrates me to no end. They make some of the most beautiful cars on the road today but that reliability (and maintenance issues in general like overpriced parts) makes me run for the hills, never to return. 

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As for GM cars they did have many issues from 1973-2005. But for their most part they were cheap to repair and always would start. The paint may have fallen off and the body may have rusted but they would always run.

Years ago the Vega was a prime beater car as it may have rusted and used oil but it always would run and you could fix it for $20.

Guys in school would just save the used oil from oil changes to put in as why buy it if it is going to burn.

Along with The Fiat we had a Vega and a Sunbeam Alpine. The Vega had them all covered for durability. It did everything wrong but it always got there.


The Sunbeam never had much oil pressure but it never blew up. Rust and electrical were issues. Lucas the prince of darkness.

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Jaguar frustrates me to no end. They make some of the most beautiful cars on the road today but that reliability (and maintenance issues in general like overpriced parts) makes me run for the hills, never to return. 

Jag has improved under Ford and the new owners but they are over priced and still have some nagging issues that should not be. I have a friend at work with one and he is over 100K miles now. That would have been unheard of years ago. But he can work on it himself so while parts are not cheap he can save on the labor.

We had a 76 Jag sedan that was never reliable till it received a 4287 Pontiac V8 in place of the V12 that kept dropping valve seats. Rust was not an issue due to coming from TX. Note it was faster with the Pontiac.

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I'm sure someone lookng at the Alfa's of today, like this, are ones looking for the experience.

 

Tesla's have shown to not be as sturdily built as they could be, but the experience alone sells the cars. Does Alfa has the brand?

I'm sure there is some mystique in Alfa, and the Quadrifoglio is one sexy tomato. But I can't help but feel...why not Quadriofoglio all the things? 

 

I'm sure every quadriofoglio they make will sell. Yet I think they will struggle to move the tame models off the lot. It's just the Italian way I think. Italian cars are all about being exotic. Who wants the bland non-sexy tomato version? Not many. 

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I could see considering an Alfa for a lease for a few years instead of the more predictable BMW 3-series if I were in the compact premium  niche..something different and distinctive...wouldn't want one after out of warranty, of course.

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I expect the Quad's to have epic resales, since they just don't sell that many of them. 

I think Alfa could do a much better job being a brand like Porsche, which sells it's mystique and pedigree (even in trucklets like Cayenne and Stelvio) than a brand with volume sales ambitions like BMW, Mercedes. And then I would not scoff at the idea of escalation of commitment by Fiat.

Though like a solid majority of Porche's sales are Cayenne + Macan + Panamera, but Stelvio is supposed to annihilate Giulia sales too.

 

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