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Alfa Romeo Scraps Plans For Giulia Wagon :Comments

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Alfa Romeo was planning to build out the Giulia lineup with a coupe, convertible, and wagon. But one of those variants has been canned.

Alfa Romeo's manufacturing chief, Alfredo Altavilla tells Car Magazine that plans for the wagon have been canceled.

"We decided not to do a Giulia Sportwagon. Do we really need it if the Stelvio SUV [below] drives that well? Maybe not. With our fine-tuning, the Stelvio can capture all the people who would otherwise have been interested in the SW."

Alfa's reasons for canceling the wagon makes sense. More and more people are turning to the SUVs and crossovers. Why spend the money on developing a model that might not sell as well as an SUV?

Source: Car Magazine


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The more I look at this car, the more strongly I feel that the Alfa lineup will never sell well. The design style is just BUTT UGLY! :puke: 

I know some of you here love it, but this product line should have stayed dead, the style is ugly IMO and I still do not see anything that would say this will be a tight quality product line.

FCA has so many pain points that need to be fixed, trying to bring back an autoline that the public went away from as it was crappy then and will probably still be crappy now.

Sergio's Money Pit is what ALFA is!

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46 minutes ago, dfelt said:

The more I look at this car, the more strongly I feel that the Alfa lineup will never sell well. The design style is just BUTT UGLY!

You are absolutely drunk. This is one of the best looking cars on the market right now, including all the sporty coupes and exotics. They NAILED the exterior design, imo.

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It's not ugly and it's not beautiful; it's just another oh-so-mild variation of a dozen other vehicles already out.

NO ONE is making major market inroads (Alfa : "quadruple production") based on design alone anymore, which is the only potential left, as everyone is competitive (within segment) on specifications. Alfa has huge baggage in the U.S. that remains to be seen of it can be dropped and sell some vehicles… or not.

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It's a distinctive design...the front is definitely evocative of past Alfas, and it's not the usual boring, predictable trapezoidial giant grille too many cars have today...and I like the offset front license plate instead of the usual, boring predicable centered plate.   The side profile is less distinct, showing strong BMW 3-series design cues though...how Alfa will be received in the US market is a good question, it's basically an unknown new brand to anyone under 40 or so.

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U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

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Like stated it is mostly not a bad looking cars but they really need to do something with the grill. I know it is traditional but today it appears as a large vagina in the front. 

Now I do not think they should scrap Alfa. But they do need to move the Voume focused to Dodge. 

Sergios plans of 400,000 global and 150,000 sales are just never going to happen even if they build a better BMW. 

Keep in mind in December Alfa sales in America doubled to a whopping 53 units. Hell 7 more cars they would have surpassed the Viper.

The SUV is a better move over a wagon but their fate is already cast here. Also slipping the Alfa under the rest of the FCA line is ill advised. One they will have quality issues. Two it will delete an already weak Alfa image. 

Alfa is much like the 200 where it really is a much better good car but it is still not a leader in segment. 

Also the image of Alfa is so much more damaged than Cadillac and we all know the work GM has to do there.

Edited by hyperv6
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4 hours ago, Stew said:

U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

Or it could be based off of a solid history of unreliable products. Sorry, but Alfa and Fiat earned their reputations for very good reasons and it doesn't appear to have changed much. One look at its problems overseas tells me that. 

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2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Or it could be based off of a solid history of unreliable products. Sorry, but Alfa and Fiat earned their reputations for very good reasons and it doesn't appear to have changed much. One look at its problems overseas tells me that. 

Those were all on older FWD based platforms that have nothing to do with this one.  I haven't seen anything about this car having reliability problems and besides there is a lot more Chrysler in it than people would want you to think.  That is kind of like saying because the transmission failed on mine and my parents 92 and 96 Luminas and 2000 GTP that GM is garbage right now even though they have nothing based on that old W-Body platform.  .  

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1 hour ago, Stew said:

Those were all on older FWD based platforms that have nothing to do with this one.  I haven't seen anything about this car having reliability problems and besides there is a lot more Chrysler in it than people would want you to think.  That is kind of like saying because the transmission failed on mine and my parents 92 and 96 Luminas and 2000 GTP that GM is garbage right now even though they have nothing based on that old W-Body platform.  .  

I am talking about their current crop of cars. Overall, they are just as troublesome as they were in the 70s and 80s, even if the reasons are different. FCA overall spends a lot of time at the bottom of a lot of reliability charts. 

 

For the record, I'm not just taking smack to talk smack about FCA. I owned my Dodge for eight years and it was the best car I've ever owned overall but I'm not so delusional about it to think that all Dodges are trouble free just because mine wasn't. They have gotten better overall, but so has the competition and that's the problem here. 

Edited by surreal1272
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On 2/10/2017 at 1:58 PM, ccap41 said:

You are absolutely drunk. This is one of the best looking cars on the market right now, including all the sporty coupes and exotics. They NAILED the exterior design, imo.

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

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9 hours ago, Stew said:

U am sorry, i think she is a beauty and I can't wait to see the coupe version.  This will not be the high seller though, obviously that will be the Stelvio.  Also, Dfelt, you can't say it isn't a tight quality product, you simply want to conjecture on the negative side of everything when it comes to this company.  . 

Nope WRONG, I have way to much experiance with the Fiats and Alfas or the 60's - 70's and the garbage they tried to peddle that failed and forced them to withdraw. I have gone out of my way to drive them on my trips overseas and still see no difference. Same with what is being sold here now, still garbage.

Sergio should have made sure the quality of Fiat was perfect when he brought it back to the US. Failed, Alfas that are on the floor here now are not much better.

My opinion based on past and current experience with them and I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they still fail.

Way to many other products from Germany, Asian and especially the US that beats Alfa and Fiat every which way.

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Every MFG has their trouble spots and models be it GM, Ford, Toyota, Mazda or FCA. 

The problem is more of the FCA products have been more trouble prone since the merger. Chrysler had their issues with some quality due to going broke just as GM did. But since the bail out GM has improved while FCA is relying on FCA engineered platforms that to me are not up to the quality that Chrysler used to make on their own. 

FCA is Debt heavy and that often leads to problems on quality. This is where they all fall down. 

The new Alfa platform has yet to prove itself yet as it is new. But many are wary as it had issues in development and was delayed due to these issues. Seeing FCA usually has more cars on the do not buy list due to quality than most from review firms they so have issues. 

GM has has issues on their large SUV models and they all ended up on the list. That tells me they have an issue with this platform. As for FCA they are having problems on multiple platforms and that is troubling and not a good sign for the new platform. Time will either clear of confirm it but I will not be shocked if they sell many that it ends up on some do not buy list. 

I see FCA about where GM was in the 90's where they do not have all the money they need for development. We know this due to Sergios insistence of a merger and that no one wants anything to do with him. If things improve they may be ok but if the quality continues as it is then they will continue to slide. 

The next couple years will be telling. 
 

My gut tells me someone comes in and takes them over or they get sold of in divisions in the next 5-10 years. 

 

A car is only as good as the bones or platform it is on. I have yet to see a platform from Fiat divisions that was at least as good as the others in the market. Like they would say about the Dart and 200 they were much better cars than they replaced but they were still at the back of the pack to the others

 

Edited by hyperv6
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13 minutes ago, dfelt said:

CCAP, I have to think you are probably half my age. I am 49 and I can tell you my fellow pears remember the garbage that Alfa and Fiat tried to peddle in the US and how that garbage caused them to pull out.

They are still building garbage and I see it when I travel to Europe and I see it here in the US and their design language is OLD. Just a refresh of what they did in the past. 

I accept your love of the auto, to me, it is ugly and not worth the money. So many superior products out there in comparison to this wasted billion dollar pet project of Sergios.

I am an old an old Fiat 128  veteran. 

Boy the stories I can tell on that car. There was good but there was more bad then good. 

Change a timing belt at 25,000 not 26,000 or you will need a new engine. 

Rust? If the humidity was 75% it would rust. 

Cheap the doors were as flimsy as a card board box. 

Odd? Spare tire in the engine compartment. A knob that says throttle but we called it Italian cruise control as you could pull it out and run over 70 MPH.

If you ever got hit in the thing you were dead. No structure what so ever.

Electronics did work ok in this one.

We did use it as a winter car and a beater. It took a spare junk car to keep it on the road. Our wagon was from TX but the sedan from Ohio. So the Ohio car was dead at 50,000 miles but it has a lot of good mechanical parts.

The car looked good but it would not lock as we had no latch for the rear. The struts held it down.  We could leave it in down town Cleveland and no one would steal it. 

I know the cars today are build to a higher standard but with some time in a 500 you can still feel and see the cheapness of the car. Mirrors should not shake when you slam the door in a car today. 

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22 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Oh, no! Please excuse me while I go cry in the corner. :hissyfit::glare:

  • Why did you just pay full sticker price for a Fiat? :P
Edited by hyperv6
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1 minute ago, hyperv6 said:
  • Why did you just pay full sticker price for a Fiat? :P

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. :puke:

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27 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. :puke:

What? :o Not even the Fiat Rebadge Mazda? ;)

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2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

There's nothing from Fiat, Alfa, or Maserati I'd have the slightest interest in purchasing. :puke:

Smart comment!

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

What? :o Not even the Fiat Rebadge Mazda? ;)

Trust me if there is a way to screw up a Miata Fiat will find a way.

Let face it the Italians can style some of the best cars but the new Spider is not a real looker.

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14 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Smart comment!

Trust me if there is a way to screw up a Miata Fiat will find a way.

Let face it the Italians can style some of the best cars but the new Spider is not a real looker.

:roflmao: So True!

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On 2/11/2017 at 2:54 PM, surreal1272 said:

I am talking about their current crop of cars. Overall, they are just as troublesome as they were in the 70s and 80s, even if the reasons are different. FCA overall spends a lot of time at the bottom of a lot of reliability charts. 

 

For the record, I'm not just taking smack to talk smack about FCA. I owned my Dodge for eight years and it was the best car I've ever owned overall but I'm not so delusional about it to think that all Dodges are trouble free just because mine wasn't. They have gotten better overall, but so has the competition and that's the problem here. 

No company has all trouble free cars, but the bottom line is that most of the current crop of "reliability issues" are people's inability to use features and have nothing to do with reliability.  GM for example has their more recent issues as well.  IE the 14+ Silverado.  There is the vibration issue and surface rust appearing, in some cases, less than a year.  My brother's ATS with less than 10k miles has already had to have the CUE head unit replaced AND has had to have the ECU flashed for a check engine light.  I can look past the BS.  Alfa hasn't even sold enough cars to be included in quality studies here.......

On 2/11/2017 at 5:35 PM, dfelt said:

Nope WRONG, I have way to much experiance with the Fiats and Alfas or the 60's - 70's and the garbage they tried to peddle that failed and forced them to withdraw. I have gone out of my way to drive them on my trips overseas and still see no difference. Same with what is being sold here now, still garbage.

Sergio should have made sure the quality of Fiat was perfect when he brought it back to the US. Failed, Alfas that are on the floor here now are not much better.

My opinion based on past and current experience with them and I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they still fail.

Way to many other products from Germany, Asian and especially the US that beats Alfa and Fiat every which way.

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

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27 minutes ago, Stew said:

No company has all trouble free cars, but the bottom line is that most of the current crop of "reliability issues" are people's inability to use features and have nothing to do with reliability.  GM for example has their more recent issues as well.  IE the 14+ Silverado.  There is the vibration issue and surface rust appearing, in some cases, less than a year.  My brother's ATS with less than 10k miles has already had to have the CUE head unit replaced AND has had to have the ECU flashed for a check engine light.  I can look past the BS.  Alfa hasn't even sold enough cars to be included in quality studies here.......

LMAO everything was garbag3e in the 60s and 70s so that is just a foolish comment.  We are talking 40 to 50 years ago.  i mean that comment tells me ALL I need to know. 

Well of course every make has had it garbage years and yes the 60s and 70s were unkind to quite a few of them. The problem with Fiat/Alfa (leaving their domestic side out of this) is that they never stopped being garbage. They ran out of this country the first time because their cars were bigger piles of dung than the other dung of the 60s and 70s. It's not even debatable. Sorry and again I'm not picking on them "just because". I'm picking on them because I understand their history and saw those piles up close (namely Alfa Spyders and Fiat XTs) and evidently it has taken on a new form called the 500. They have garbage resale value for a reason. No offense but no one will change my mind on Fiat ever.

Edited by surreal1272

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6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Well of course every make has had it garbage years and yes the 60s and 70s were unkind to quite a few of them. The problem with Fiat/Alfa (leaving their domestic side out of this) is that they never stopped being garbage. They ran out of this country the first time because their cars were bigger piles of dung than the other dung of the 60s and 70s. It's not even debatable. Sorry and again I'm not picking on them "just because". I'm picking on them because I understand their history and saw those piles up close (namely Alfa Spyders and Fiat XTs) and evidently it has taken on a new form called the 500. They have garbage resale value for a reason. No offense but no one will change my mind on Fiat ever.

There is still no reason to call the entire platform junk as it was actually co-designed for the entire brand.  The Engines are the new Chrysler turbo 4, and the transmissions still the venerable ZF 8 speed.  The only worry is the turbo 6 which has to be putting out a ton of boost with it's small displacement to be putting out the HP it does.   And this is so different from those old cars in form, shape, and even drive wheels it is hard for me to not give it a chanc3e.  Like I said, it is like me never buying a GM being of transmission issues in my old W-bodies or the front end failures in my old B-bodies.  Simply another example of the hypocrisy of blasting 1 brand yet making excuses for another so what is bad for one isn't for the other.  I am pretty sure those W-bodies were built well after Alfa had left the US......

Edited by Stew

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      Press Release is on Page 2


      Opel/Vauxhall Go Profitable, Electric and Global with PACE!
      Return to profitability by 2020: 2% automotive recurring operating margin, positive operational free cash flow[1] Lower financial break-even point to 800,000 vehicles Electrification and CO2 leadership: All passenger carlines to be electrified by 2024 Improve efficiency towards benchmark levels for manufacturing and logistics cost as well as for wage cost/revenue-ratio Intention to maintain and modernise all plants and to refrain from forced redundancies R&D centre in Rüsselsheim to become a global competence centre for Groupe PSA Enlarge commercial scope: Leverage Opel brand for overseas export opportunities and foster growth of Opel/Vauxhall LCV business PACE! execution to immediately unleash Opel/Vauxhall performance and pave the way to a sustainable future Rüsselsheim.  Michael Lohscheller, CEO of Opel Automobile GmbH, today announced the strategic plan PACE! to restore financial fundamentals and enhance sustainable competitiveness and growth. All PACE! initiatives will contribute to the goals of generating a positive operational free cash flow as well as a recurring operating margin for the auto division of 2% in a first phase by 2020 and of 6% by 2026. Combining strengths will unleash annual synergies on Groupe PSA level of €1.1 billion by 2020 and €1.7 billion by 2026. All actions will contribute to a lower financial break-even point for Opel/Vauxhall of 800,000 vehicles, creating a profitable business model whatever the headwinds may be.
      Having full access to Groupe PSA technologies, Opel/Vauxhall will become a European CO2 leader. By 2024, all European passenger carlines will be electrified – offering a pure battery electric propulsion or plug-in hybrid version alongside efficient internal combustion engines. By 2020, Opel/Vauxhall will have four electrified carlines on the market, including the Grandland X PHEV and the next generation Corsa as a fully electric vehicle.
      The company will enhance its competitiveness by 2020 e.g. by reducing costs by €700 per car. Efficiency of marketing expenses will be improved by more than 10%. Overall efficiencies will be increased by reducing complexity across all functions with a ratio G&A/revenue moving from 5.6% to 4.7% and an objective to bring the company towards industry benchmark in terms of wage cost/revenue ratio. Optimising R&D and CapEx at 7-8% of automotive revenue, manufacturing and administration processes by 2020 and releasing working capital of €1.2 billion by 2022 will also contribute to seizing synergies.
      Improved competitiveness of the manufacturing plants will lead to new vehicle allocations that will provide a better utilisation rate for the next decade. The two Groupe PSA platforms CMP and EMP2 will be localised in all Opel/Vauxhall plants. To start with, an EMP2-based SUV is planned for Eisenach in 2019; and an EMP2-based D-segment vehicle is coming to Rüsselsheim. The allocation of new powertrains in Opel/Vauxhall manufacturing sites will accompany the shift from GM to Groupe PSA engines and transmissions.
      “PACE! will unleash our full potential. This plan is paramount for the company, to protect our employees against headwinds and turn Opel/Vauxhall into a sustainable, profitable, electrified, and global company. Our future will be secured and we will contribute with German excellence to the Groupe PSA development. The implementation has already started with all teams eager to achieve the objectives,” said Opel CEO Michael Lohscheller.
      The plan is designed with the clear intention to maintain all plants and refrain from forced redundancies in Europe. The necessary and sustainable reduction of labour costs shall be reached with thoughtful measures such as innovative working time concepts, voluntary programs or early retirement schemes.
      All new Opel/Vauxhall vehicles will be engineered in Rüsselsheim, which will be transformed into a global competence centre for the whole Groupe PSA. First areas of expertise are identified, e.g. fuel cells, certain automated driving technologies and driver assistance developments. This will further guarantee German engineering quality and affordable innovations. Altogether, the number of platforms Opel/Vauxhall uses for its passenger cars will be reduced from currently 9 to 2 by 2024. Furthermore, the powertrain families will be optimised from currently 10 to 4. “Aligning architecture and powertrain families will substantially reduce development and production complexity, thus allowing scale effects and synergies, contributing to overall profitability,” said Lohscheller.
      Opel/Vauxhall will switch to efficient and flexible Groupe PSA vehicle architectures faster than originally expected. From 2024 onwards, all Opel/Vauxhall passenger car models will be based on joint Groupe PSA architectures. Next to come are the Combo in 2018 and the next generation of the bestselling Corsa in 2019. This course will be steadily continued with one major launch per year. Counting every body style, Opel/Vauxhall will launch 9 new models by 2020. This line-up will enable to increase the pricing power of Opel/Vauxhall brands and reduce the gap against benchmark by four points.
      Sales growth of the further profiled and strengthened Opel/Vauxhall brands will be supported by initiatives like the start of even more attractive financial offerings as well as full service leasing offers via the Financial Services of Opel and Vauxhall.
      Furthermore, Opel will enter more than 20 new export markets by 2022. Beyond that, Opel will explore global midterm overseas profitable export opportunities.
      To foster growth in the financially attractive light commercial vehicle (LCV) business, Opel/Vauxhall will launch new models and enter new markets with the clear goal to increase its LCV sales by 25% by 2020 against 2017.
      “PACE! has been designed by Opel/Vauxhall for the benefit of our employees as an immediate performance booster,” said Lohscheller.

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