Fiat News: FCA's Upcoming Small Cars To Switch To PSA Group Architecture

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.

Chrysler 300 by itself outsold the entire 3-model Alfa lineup in 2019.

Alfa as a brand was down 23% vs. 2018. Rumors are swirling it'll get yanked- can't survive on that kind of horrible volume.

Right, smk?

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, David said:

First off Carlos is GONE and in hiding in a 3rd world country if he did not get blown up by the port explosion that killed so many innocent people.

As far as name brands, you have way too much faith in people thinking positive here of Peugeot and DS. Yes they make some interesting products and have had positive reviews in Europe. 

That is Europe and they DO NOT have any marketing power here in the US like your Badge mobile Mercedes-Benz has. As such, Chrysler has more marketing creds with the van and 300 than trying to start from scratch and looking up the history of Peugeot and seeing how crappy they did.

I would bet on Chrysler with rebadged Peugeot and DS auto's and an existing dealership than trying to close them down and rebuild new dealerships on P and DS.

Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

Fiat unquestionably does, if it has any image at all.
But Chrysler & Dodge have very good images- you're stuck in 1982 with that.
Dodge also isn't "dead weight"- they moved 422K units in '19 withOUT Ram.

Alfa is what's dead weight; 18K units sold, down almost 23% from 2018.
Citroen & Peugeot are dead on arrival- lost in the crowd with nothing to pull buyers with and a negative image.

Carlos can try and bring something here, but he had better understand the market before pushing billions anywhere or he's going to lose.

Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.  If Chrysler stays then they are getting straight badge jobs I image.

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.   

In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

Barf....they already have that niche covered w/ the small Jeeps...does the US market need more generics?    The V8 RWD product is what makes Dodge stand out in a market full of fecal fwd/awd transverse engine despair gray interior generic appliances...Dodge doesn't need such chud...anyway, from the article, it sounds like the PSA stuff will be for the European market.   Maybe the next gen Renegade and Compass will be on a PSA platform? 

Anyway, I do hope Stellantis finds a future for the Charger and Challenger and keeps them real...I'd hate to see those names and style wasted on appliances..

Edited September 2, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

...the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

Except for the market that wants RWD V8s.
EVERYTHING can't be a teeny 4-banger CUV.

[David]

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

[Robert Hall]

32 minutes ago, David said:

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff that GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse and Americans seem to have infinite appetite for.   But under what brand?  There was talk of bringing the Peugeot brand here.  It's been almost 30 years since it was sold here.   Launching a brand would be more $$$ and work than badge engineering....

Since Dodge is down to 3 vehicles that draw on V8 performance as part of their brand image, I don't see any of them fitting in at Dodge.  Chrysler is pretty thin now, could use a couple more CUVs..and if they are purely soft roaders that would distinguish them from Jeep's rugged image.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Robert Hall

[David]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse.   But what brand would it sell under? 

I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, David said:

I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

This would be product aiming at a different buyer than the Durango...more at the buyers of soft roader chud that sells well--think of all the gray plastic interior Equinoxes, Blazers, Escapes, Santa Fes, Nissans, Terrains, Acadias, etc that sell...  I'm not a fan, but subcompact and compact CUVs are a huge market right now.  There is room to sell more and not badge them as Jeeps or Dodges.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

The Rav4 by itself sells as much as the whole Dodge brand in the US.  There is plenty of market for front drive crossovers.  And PSA knows how to make money, they had over an 8% margin last year, most car companies are happy at 5%. 

Dodge is still around with a stale lineup because the only way for the brand to be profitable is to sell vehicles that the tooling was paid off 5-10 years ago.  If they started pumping money into new product they'd be broke, which is why FCA was putting out so little new product recently.

Any hopes of Dodge's rear drive future lie on the Georgio platform.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

[balthazar]

So your logic smk is to kill any brand selling less than the Rav4??

 

 

wow.

[David]

53 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

Based on your logic, then you should be scared, very scared as they will come here and destroy what little Mercedes-Benz sells and force them to retreat to Germany.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

So your logic smk is to kill any brand selling less than the Rav4??

 

 

wow.

No it isn't, I said they should kill Chrysler, and move the van to Dodge.  And add Peugeot to current FCA dealer network.  And they can drop Fiat in the USA.

[balthazar]

Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??

Edited September 3, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??
 

Last time I looked, btw, rav4 was around 300K and dodge was at 422K.

I am just saying front drive crossovers are the #1 selling product type.  You could price a Porsche 911 at $30k and the Rav4 would still outsell it because most people don't want a sports car, they want a crossover to haul stuff, even if they don't haul stuff, and they think they need AWD for snow, even if they don't, and they want good gas mileage so they'll live with a 1.6 liter turbo to get it.

[balthazar]

Yeah, but, that’s totally irrelevant to the discussion. It’s not even a point of contention.

[daves87rs]

Thoughts to some of this:

No small small cars will be sold here in the US. I can tell you that now. Fiat is already dead, we saw that coming anyways...

The old guard platform cars are not going anywhere- there are still updates and some new stuff down the pipeline. These 3 still have enough of a following to keep them for a good while. Besides, they are nearly retro cars anyways... 😉 . Ram of course will be fine. Jeep looks like it too may skip the small/ sub stuff as well. Sounds like the baby Jeep is in danger of being dropped, as Jeep wants to focus on their core products, and sell them all over the world. A few less models actually makes this easier, though they are adding the Jeep Wagoneer.....

Alfa is a tough one. I like them, and they are getting kinda a Saab like following (know a few that have one-love it) so they should hang around at least a while to see where things go......

[balthazar]

Of course, because it's an import brand, any examination of it's sales is irrelevant.

Right, smk?

[riviera74]

Personally, I think that Stellantis should (at least for a while) keep the 300/Charger/Challenger triplets.  As for CUVs and minivans, they can do what they like with the brands that exist.  Stellantis could easily rebagde SOME of their CUVs and FWD cars as Chryslers with probably little or no negative feedback.  Bring them as Cintroens: automatic fail.  Nobody here misses Renault since they left in 1988.  Tavares has a lot of work ahead of him in order to succeed here in the most competitive automotive marketplace on Earth.  NO one here will miss FIAT because their cars are terrible.

[Robert Hall]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:27 AM, smk4565 said:

Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

 

Same first name, different empty suit...worked under Ghosn previously...they should have an American that understands the NA market in charge of the NA brands, not some empty suit w/ a Renault/Nissan past. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

On 9/2/2020 at 5:55 PM, smk4565 said:

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s. That is a stain that does not go away. Any attempt to put a Dodge or Chrysler skin on Peugeot guts will be the 100% death of Dodge and Chrysler, above all other scenarios. Regarding stale product, FCA had ample opportunities to invest in new products for Dodge and Chrysler and didn’t because they insisted on peddling their own Fiat and Alfa garbage to US buyers. How’d that work for them btw?

 

Oh and please stop with the sales comparisons and such because all of that “logic” can easily be applied to Mercedes as well but shhhhhhh, we don’t talk about Benz like that do we?

Edited September 4, 2020 by surreal1272