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Solstice VS. Miata Edmunds Comparo

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But the biggest reason the Miata took this one is the simple fact that it's...

... a Pontiac! duh!

:rolleyes:
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What the hell does anyone need with an oil pressure gauge anyway?

[post="18624"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Beats me...

Anyway, the MX-5 may be a better "roadster" in the traditional British sense (telepathic controls, top-down motoring, nimbleness), but the Solstice is more of a "sports car", almost like a cheap Z4 or SLK. It might not be as delicate, but its limits are higher, particularly with the upcoming GXP version.

I know they're both in the same price range, but character-wise, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
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And four cupholders in a two-seater?
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What the hell does anyone need with an oil pressure gauge anyway?

[post="18624"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


??? The new BMW's don't even have dip-sticks.
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Let's say everything is true in this comparison test, just pretend for a moment. Pontiac has nothing to be ashamed of....this is a great car for just being newly introduced, very quickly on the market and a first attempt at this sort of car.. It will get more and more refined as time goes on. And it may come down to personal peference as to the feel people prefer in their sports cars. Some will like the MX-5s and some will like the Solstice. Pontiac should be very proud of this car.
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According to Pontiac, its 2006 Solstice roadster is already a huge success. After it appeared on NBC's The Apprentice, the carmaker says 1,000 examples of the two-seater were sold in only 41 minutes and more than 7,000 found owners in the following 10 days.

Great, it's about time GM's Screaming Chicken division had something to crow about. But before Pontiac's new poster child can become the darling of America's sun worshippers, it has to get past the 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata first.


Wouldn't the fact that it already has more orders than the Miata normally sells in a year say something about it already being the new darling of America's sun worshippers?

But the biggest reason the Miata took this one is the simple fact that it's 10 billion times more fun to drive. It's more responsive.


:rolleyes: Okay, sure... Didn't some mag think the Solstice was more fun?
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Come on guys.....you can't bitch when Solstice gets beaten in one comparo.....then cheer when it wins another.... BOTH cars are great designs and will each appeal to many different people. I predict both will also be successful. They ARE so close, that invariably you will get conflicting opinions as to which is better. I've heard the Solstice is a tad lethargic off-the-line (higher weight? gear ratios?) compared to the Miata, and there IS that issue with the lack of any sort of realistic luggage capacity. My only beef with Solstice is that when I sat in one at the Oklahoma City fair (yes, it was there) was that the seats were AWFUL...!!! They felt like mushy bags of sand with absolutely no support in the lower seat cushion at all. I couldn't BELIEVE that these are the seats they put in a sports car. It's a total deal breaker for me....they were THAT bad.... It's a shame because the damn little car is HOT.....!
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Many of the mags, though, are saying in a non-measured, subjective test, the Solstice is the more fun car. They all seem to mention the Miata being darty, sub-par suspension travel, and less of an everyman for superior communication with the road. That being said, the missions of the cars are subtlely, yet importantly, different. The Miata seeks to simply be a better Miata. Light, nimble, slightly rough, and a throwback to the MGA's and Alpines of yesteryear. The Solstice is designed to be a mini-halo car. It's got polarizing lines and style to spare. It also is equally at home on the interstate and the backroads. It's less practical and yet more refined than the MX-5 because it doesn't seek to be a better Miata, but instead to be the best it can be both as a car and for the division and company it represents. This isn't accomplished by simply being the best autocrosser, but by being many things to many people. What many of these comparisons fail to mention is that the fact that they are both two seat roadsters available in the mid twenties, but aren't trying to accomplish the same thing. Past comparisons versus the Miata were really about which is the better Miata, as the Miata itself has defined the paradigm for 16 years. The Capri and the MR2 are both cars that sought recognition as a Miata that wasn't. But as other roadsters (no doubt built due to the Mazda's success) hit the road, namely the Z3, Boxster, S2000, and now the Solstice, the game isn't the same. Now you've got many flavors of roadsters, each with distinct personality that isn't necessarily the same as a Miata. The Solstice has a flavor all its own, and unlike all the other non-Miata-clones, costs the same as the Miata. This being the case, some reviewers are still asking, "Is the Solstice the new Miata?" But the real question that better reviewers are posing is, "In the sub-$30,000 roadster market, how do the competitors stack up? When you see a review based on that logic, you see that the Miata has its own character, but the Solstice isn't trying to beat it at it's own game. It's trying to be a car that stands on its own merits, and while looking at the competition, it can add up to a different kind of fun. I think that's why when you see the mags saying the Miata has the numbers, but the Solstice has the feel, that means that the gut, not the head is digging the Solstice. Remember that that is exactly the same feeling that kept the Miata in the catbird seat for so many years. It's never had the numbers, but it's always had the feel. Now that you're not locked in to saying, "Is this aspect better or worse than a Miata?" but instead can say things like, "The cockpit is more Boxster than S2000," and, "The engine is flatter than an S2000, but not as engaging as a Miata," the personality of the car is revealed. In that respect, then, a reviewer who is looking at the big picture can see that while the Miata is pure Miata, the Solstice is an amalgam of different traits of different cars. Just my $.02, of course. But in my and many other Miata owners' views, the scene is long overdue for a Miata competitor in terms of cost that has traits of some of the more exclusive roadsters. Competition betters the breed, and the Z3, Boxster, S2000, MR2, and Z4 have all added to the flavor that the Solstice brings to the table. The Miata is still a better Miata, but the Solstice is blend that has a lot of Miata flavor, but a lot of other spices too. Tony
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We never missed the Grand Touring's leather seats

It had everything, and it all costs extra, including air conditioning, ABS and leather seats.

All tallied up, the Pontiac cost about a grand more than the Mazda, while they were more or less comparably equipped.


Without looking at the ordering chart, wouldn't leather add close to a grand to the cost of the Solstice?

They're also the only review I've read that prefers the 6-speed in the Miata to the 5-speed. Most everyone else says the 6-speed is unnecessary because the gear spread is about the same - you just end up shifting more to get the same result. Perhaps a more legitimate criticism would be that the Miata has smoother and easier shifter. That's no knock on the Solstice, but the Miata's gearbox has been setting the standard for years.

Many of the mags, though, are saying in a non-measured, subjective test, the Solstice is the more fun car.  They all seem to mention the Miata being darty, sub-par suspension travel, and less of an everyman for superior communication with the road.

That being said, the missions of the cars are subtlely, yet importantly, different.  The Miata seeks to simply be a better Miata.  Light, nimble, slightly rough, and a throwback to the MGA's and Alpines of yesteryear.  The Solstice is designed to be a mini-halo car.  It's got polarizing lines and style to spare.  It also is equally at home on the interstate and the backroads.  It's less practical and yet more refined than the MX-5 because it doesn't seek to be a better Miata, but instead to be the best it can be both as a car and for the division and company it represents.  This isn't accomplished by simply being the best autocrosser, but by being many things to many people.

What many of these comparisons fail to mention is that the fact that they are both two seat roadsters available in the mid twenties, but aren't trying to accomplish the same thing.  Past comparisons versus the Miata were really about which is the better Miata, as the Miata itself has defined the paradigm for 16 years.  The Capri and the MR2 are both cars that sought recognition as a Miata that wasn't.  But as other roadsters (no doubt built due to the Mazda's success) hit the road, namely the Z3, Boxster, S2000, and now the Solstice, the game isn't the same.  Now you've got many flavors of roadsters, each with distinct personality that isn't necessarily the same as a Miata.  The Solstice has a flavor all its own, and unlike all the other non-Miata-clones, costs the same as the Miata.

This being the case, some reviewers are still asking, "Is the Solstice the new Miata?"  But the real question that better reviewers are posing is, "In the sub-$30,000 roadster market, how do the competitors stack up?  When you see a review based on that logic, you see that the Miata has its own character, but the Solstice isn't trying to beat it at it's own game.  It's trying to be a car that stands on its own merits, and while looking at the competition, it can add up to a different kind of fun.  I think that's why when you see the mags saying the Miata has the numbers, but the Solstice has the feel, that means that the gut, not the head is digging the Solstice.  Remember that that is exactly the same feeling that kept the Miata in the catbird seat for so many years.  It's never had the numbers, but it's always had the feel.  Now that you're not locked in to saying, "Is this aspect better or worse than a Miata?" but instead can say things like, "The cockpit is more Boxster than S2000," and, "The engine is flatter than an S2000, but not as engaging as a Miata," the personality of the car is revealed.  In that respect, then, a reviewer who is looking at the big picture can see that while the Miata is pure Miata, the Solstice is an amalgam of different traits of different cars.

Just my $.02, of course.  But in my and many other Miata owners' views, the scene is long overdue for a Miata competitor in terms of cost that has traits of some of the more exclusive roadsters.  Competition betters the breed, and the Z3, Boxster, S2000, MR2, and Z4 have all added to the flavor that the Solstice brings to the table.  The Miata is still a better Miata, but the Solstice is blend that has a lot of Miata flavor, but a lot of other spices too.

Tony

[post="18975"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Excellent points.

-RBB
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These results do not surprise me. However, I still would rather drive a Solstice than a Miata. Sure, the Miata has a better looking interior as well as three generations of refinement. But what it comes down to is...the Pontiac simply looks better. Sorry edmunds, for my money it'd be the Pontiac (better yet the Saturn).
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[QUOTE]not the solstice.[/QUOTE]


No surprise there.

This further cements the fact that no American car will ever be good enough fo the media.

[QUOTE]But the biggest reason the Miata took this one is the simple fact that it's 10 billion times more fun to drive. It's more responsive.[/QUOTE]

10 billion......

Damn, that's a lot. (obvious sarcasm implied)

[QUOTE]Come on guys.....you can't bitch when Solstice gets beaten in one comparo.....then cheer when it wins another....[/QUOTE]

Sure I can, it's what being a FAN is all about.

[QUOTE]It's when pigs fly the day that Edmunds will quit bashing GM.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

[QUOTE]Great, it's about time GM's Screaming Chicken division had something to crow about.[/QUOTE]

Nice "redneck" connotations with that line, right off the bat. What's wrong Edmunds, insecure about something?

[QUOTE]As Michael Buffer likes to say, "Llllllet's get ready to rumbllllllllllllllllllllllle!"[/QUOTE]

Pretty immature.

[QUOTE]But this new Miata, or MX-5, or whatever Mazda is calling it, is really something. Its interior is better finished than the Pontiac's,[/QUOTE]

WTF!!!!!!

So GM can "NEVER" make a nice enough interior for the rags??????????? And to add insult, this wasn't even the TOP miata interior..

Just a bunch of losers using SUBJECTIVE measures to screw GM over.

Hell, they just couldn't wait to discredit the Solstice in the last paragraph. They pretty much undermine it's existance.

[QUOTE]a far superior top design.[/QUOTE]

How so? Because you don't have to get your fat ass out of the car to work it? Jesus man, give me a break.

[QUOTE]Well, in our world, these roadsters are supposed to be true sports cars.[/QUOTE]

But not in the AVERAGE person's world.

Jeez, the last paragraphs were nothing but a big smack in the face to GM (Surprise, surprise)

They also loaded the review with cons for the Solstice.

I agree about the gauges though... Being a tuner, I ALWAYS like to keep an eye on every aspect of my cars.

[QUOTE]It also turned the same slalom speed as the Miata, an impressive 64 mph, and matched the Mazda's lap time around the racetrack.[/QUOTE]

That says a lot given the Solstice's bigger dimensions and added weigh... It has excellent balance.

[QUOTE]Push it hard and the Solstice has one cornering attitude, it understeers. Regardless of what the driver does, the Pontiac's huge 18-inch rear tires refuse to give up their grip of the road. This makes for quick slalom times, and it's the way you want your mom's car set up, but it quickly bores the advanced driver.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so I guess tons of grip is a bad thing when it comes to domestics?!?!?!?

[QUOTE]The Solstice stops from 60 mph in just 122 feet, just 5 feet more than the Miata's performance.[/QUOTE]

Excellent given the added weight, but of course that doesn't matter to the reviewers.

[QUOTE]the constant reflection of the interior trim in the rearview mirror,[/QUOTE]

Give me a damn break.... Imagine that.. In a convertible car...... (SARCASM)

This comment is almost as stupid as the "journalists" complaint of the XLR interior fingerprinting easily.

Just more "Making excuses" in order to judge the cars "correctly" so that Detroit doesn't beat inferior asian/european offerings.

Editorial Director Kevin Smith:
[QUOTE]Okay, I was a little narrow-minded coming in.[/QUOTE]

No kidding?!?!?!

[QUOTE]I felt the Solstice had to feel as light and lively as a Miata or it was toast. But as I built up seat time in Pontiac's new roadster, I came to appreciate that the Solstice didn't have to feel exactly like Mazda's MX-5 to be a success. It could be a smidgeon less direct in its control feedback, a little less quick to react to inputs, and not quite so poised on tippy toes, eager to change direction. As long as the driving experience managed to fulfill the promise made by its sporty-roadster concept, it could be different and might still be okay. And that's how it turns out. The Solstice does not feel like a Miata. It feels instead like its own car, a bit bigger and softer in general, but still spirited and acceptably capable on a winding, sun-drenched canyon road. In fact, for sheer cornering grip, its limits seem higher and more easily accessible than the new MX-5's.[/QUOTE]

Then why did it lose AND why the sarcastic musings? Seriously, if the limits are HIGHER and easier to reach then why didn't it win. Oh yeah, because it's a domestic AND a Pontiac.

[QUOTE]For my personal tastes, a Miata/MX-5 still does the Dance of the Sporting Roadster better[/QUOTE]

Of course, your a "journalist" (Which makes you an import slurper)

Senior Editor Ed Hellwig:
[QUOTE]I don't find their recipe for fun appealing, but there are plenty that do. For those people, I'd recommend the Miata.[/QUOTE]

What a rehearsed line of "Import Rhetoric" GARBAGE.

[QUOTE]On the racetrack it wasn't even close. The Miata attacked while the Solstice just hung on the best it could.[/QUOTE]

According to your own stats in this very article the Solstice did more than "hang on" In fact in other articles it BESTS the MX-5.... Just more lies from a BIASED source

[QUOTE]Then there's the properly finished interior[/QUOTE]

What is "properly finished" exactly?

First it was bad, then unrefined, now not "properly finished"

The excuses are wearing thin and getting more dumb and subjective by the minute.

[QUOTE]an upscale look[/QUOTE]

Some would argue a "boyracer look" and since when does the Solstice interior not look "upscale"

[QUOTE]and the world's best manually folding top.[/QUOTE]

That's a tall claim in a world of european luxury convetibles.

[QUOTE]When you're not going all out it suffers from excessive wind shear that makes your face numb after a few miles[/QUOTE]

Detroit News said the exact OPPOSITE

[QUOTE]Then there are the little things like the clunky looking top[/QUOTE]

Of course subjective... And like EVERY convertible with a cloth top doesn't look somewhat odd or clunky?


I've said it before and I'll say it again Edmunds SUCKS (literally) with a capital "S"

EDIT: I have no idea why my quotes aren't working in this post.... Oh well.
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Yawn... Edmunds may be biased, but those are all legit points.

Just a bunch of losers using SUBJECTIVE measures to screw GM over.


That's exactly what automotive writers are for, or else we'll be just studying spec sheet. My beef with Edmunds is that they combine enthusiast journalism (think EVO or Top Gear; mags that concentrate on the art of motoring) with a consumer-type resource.
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Many of the mags, though, are saying in a non-measured, subjective test, the Solstice is the more fun car.  They all seem to mention the Miata being darty, sub-par suspension travel, and less of an everyman for superior communication with the road.

That being said, the missions of the cars are subtlely, yet importantly, different.  The Miata seeks to simply be a better Miata.  Light, nimble, slightly rough, and a throwback to the MGA's and Alpines of yesteryear.  The Solstice is designed to be a mini-halo car.  It's got polarizing lines and style to spare.  It also is equally at home on the interstate and the backroads.  It's less practical and yet more refined than the MX-5 because it doesn't seek to be a better Miata, but instead to be the best it can be both as a car and for the division and company it represents.  This isn't accomplished by simply being the best autocrosser, but by being many things to many people.

What many of these comparisons fail to mention is that the fact that they are both two seat roadsters available in the mid twenties, but aren't trying to accomplish the same thing.  Past comparisons versus the Miata were really about which is the better Miata, as the Miata itself has defined the paradigm for 16 years.  The Capri and the MR2 are both cars that sought recognition as a Miata that wasn't.  But as other roadsters (no doubt built due to the Mazda's success) hit the road, namely the Z3, Boxster, S2000, and now the Solstice, the game isn't the same.  Now you've got many flavors of roadsters, each with distinct personality that isn't necessarily the same as a Miata.  The Solstice has a flavor all its own, and unlike all the other non-Miata-clones, costs the same as the Miata.

This being the case, some reviewers are still asking, "Is the Solstice the new Miata?"  But the real question that better reviewers are posing is, "In the sub-$30,000 roadster market, how do the competitors stack up?  When you see a review based on that logic, you see that the Miata has its own character, but the Solstice isn't trying to beat it at it's own game.  It's trying to be a car that stands on its own merits, and while looking at the competition, it can add up to a different kind of fun.  I think that's why when you see the mags saying the Miata has the numbers, but the Solstice has the feel, that means that the gut, not the head is digging the Solstice.  Remember that that is exactly the same feeling that kept the Miata in the catbird seat for so many years.  It's never had the numbers, but it's always had the feel.  Now that you're not locked in to saying, "Is this aspect better or worse than a Miata?" but instead can say things like, "The cockpit is more Boxster than S2000," and, "The engine is flatter than an S2000, but not as engaging as a Miata," the personality of the car is revealed.  In that respect, then, a reviewer who is looking at the big picture can see that while the Miata is pure Miata, the Solstice is an amalgam of different traits of different cars.

Just my $.02, of course.  But in my and many other Miata owners' views, the scene is long overdue for a Miata competitor in terms of cost that has traits of some of the more exclusive roadsters.  Competition betters the breed, and the Z3, Boxster, S2000, MR2, and Z4 have all added to the flavor that the Solstice brings to the table.  The Miata is still a better Miata, but the Solstice is blend that has a lot of Miata flavor, but a lot of other spices too.

Tony

[post="18975"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Wonderfully said. They are both truly great cars with slightly different missions. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.
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What the hell does anyone need with an oil pressure gauge anyway?

[post="18624"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


i do, i have a hard time figuring out when my car will start without it :P
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Yawn... Edmunds may be biased, but those are all legit points.
That's exactly what automotive writers are for, or else we'll be just studying spec sheet. My beef with Edmunds is that they combine enthusiast journalism (think EVO or Top Gear; mags that concentrate on the art of motoring) with a consumer-type resource.

[post="19124"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


and they suck at both.
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you know a test is coming in Car and Driver, and they will find a way to include the S2000. They will flip flop on their Soltice vs. Miata verdict of before and it will be S2000 Miata Solstice. They will likely find a way to include a Boxster and Z3 too, just to beat up on Pontiac.
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That's exactly what automotive writers are for, or else we'll be just studying spec sheet.

'Journalists' today are caught up in an incessant circle of comparisons they cannot seem to break free of. Cars are inevitably compared to one particular one in one particular area >>"The seats are not nearly as comfortable as those in Car X"<<, which only implies everything else is uncomfortable instead of primarily what it is: different. This sort of mindset only fosters homogenization and disdain for uniqueness.
You need to read vintage automotive article (say: pre '70) and see what (for the most part) a balanced analysis of the individual vehicle is... rather that a subjective tour de force of groundless comparisons.
Needless to say: the ego-centric attitiude and mandatory cliche' proliferation likewise adds to the indegestion of modern 'journalists'. (Clarkson, anyone?? ;))
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Look towards Edmunds for an overabundance of cliches and tired or strained metaphors.
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Well in no time these cars will be on the tracks competeing each other, then we'll know. Im sure the Solstice will be keeping pace with the Miatas. The Miata following has many years of racing experience and tuning behind their cars. Solstice will hold its ground, GM needs to stand tall for this car just like it has the Corvette and CTS. It will prove ! The more and more GM and GM fans embaress these dumb ass journalists they will begin to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk. Great post FOG thanks for putting the time into the the breakdown and eval Great post kiljoy - how did you say all that ? Excellent job.
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That's exactly what automotive writers are for, or else we'll be just studying spec sheet.

'Journalists' today are caught up in an incessant circle of comparisons they cannot seem to break free of. Cars are inevitably compared to one particular one in one particular area >>"The seats are not nearly as comfortable as those in Car X"<<, which only implies everything else is uncomfortable instead of primarily what it is: different. This sort of mindset only fosters homogenization and disdain for uniqueness.



hmmm....interesting point.....can this be broadened though and be applied to American society in general, always looking for the best, always comparing, never stopping to just enjoy what you have?
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