LeSabre& Century

[01Malibu]

Has changing the name from Lesabre to Lucerne improved sales? And Lucerne also replaces Park Avenue. Ditto to Lacrosse replacing Century and Regal. Could we say that familiar nameplates require less money marketing the product? How about following the Taurus and change back to old beloved nameplates? Lacrosse replacement becomes Century. Lucerne (goofy French sounding name) becomes LeSabre.

[Northstar]

Non-Buick/GM fans associate "Century," and "LeSabre" with "old man's car." Perhaps that is the case with any Buick to some extent, but I doubt we'll ever see old Buick names return, and for good reason.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

As much as some of us like the old GM names on many GM cars and grew up with them there are facts:

1. The market has changed since the 1950's to the early 1990's. GM does not own 50% of the market. I wished they still had that, but they do not. People do not want to accept that.

2. Younger buyers do not remember or have fond memories of the past GM names like most of us do. They do not know GM history either like some of the older buyers.

3. Our society has changed. People are not loyal like they were to jobs, cars and on and on.

4. The coasts (East and West) dictate a lot of the trends in this country.

5. GM is to blame for the mess they created. They are cleaning it up. GM damaged those names and brands over time. The G8 represents that time frame. It was over 20 something years.

6. Toyota aimed directly at the heart of the market and shot a bullseye just like Honda. They studied the GM buyers and GM was refusing to change because they thought they were the best and good enough.When they woke up, Honda and Toyota were knocking on the back door. They knocked so hard, they knocked the door down.

7. We sadly live in am image conscious society that is driven by greed and keeping up with everyone else.

8. GM ceased to be relevant at a point in the 1990's. I will even admit as much as I like my Oldsmobile Ninety Eight and Toronado, the versions I have are former shadows of what the cars truly were. Toroanado was getting back to that winning formula, but it by that point and time was not the only fwd car on the market.

9. The big switch of every GM car to front wheel drive and copying imports hurt GM too. They dropped the rear drive cars in 1996.

10. Plus... the big thing... Buick and other GM divisions customer base got older.

Can older names return?

Yes. It will take two generations or more. What was Grand Prix from 1988 until now would have to be forgotten. When people fondly remember Grand Prix, it was the ones from 1987 backwards.

Ford is doing something right with Taurus and Sable. Love them or hate them, those names carry some weight. Can you sat that about LeSabre or Century in the last form they were in 2003?

Let me give you an example. Let's say a well to do family bought a new car. Because of the image they maintain, what would look like when they tell their friends "I bought a Pontiac Grand Prix"? You can only the reaction they would get. The first reaction would be is that the " hired helps" car?

Take the same scenario. They instead said We bought a Pontiac G8. The first reaction would be what is that? They can brag on their car and show it off.

The GM brands are damaged GM brands and GM instead of being the great company it was is starting from scratch. They have to show they have it all over again. It is like an older baseball player coming out of retirement. Can he do it? Is he great as he once was? GM has to show the public something in order to show they have changed and have that old GM swagger. In the process of that change, they have to show they can compete, change the way they do business.

Toyota and Honda took those buyers one car and one step at a time. It is no mistake that Toyota Avalon looks like a big "American" car.

DESIGN. QUALITY. PERCEPTION.

It all has to change.

Edited February 9, 2007 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[wildcat]

Let me say upfront that I cherish the old model names such as Wildcat, LeSabre, Invicta, Roadmaster, etc., admittedly out of sentimental reasons - reasons which, I suspect, in today's business world and society, mean little or nothing at all to the average person. I'm a Buick fan / GM follower in a Toyota-Honda world, a different world altogether.

But if Buick doesn't change from the old model names, the public will keep associating any new cars with the ones from the past, which, admittedly, have image or perception problems (and the problems I'm referring to certainly are not limited to Buick). GM will likely only be talking to current Buick owners, and they need to expand their customer base. If Buick continued to use the old names like Century, everyone else may assume, "Oh, it's just a newer Century... yeah, my grandfather (or whomever) had a Century." By changing the model name and trying to present and market something new, GM has a chance to reach someone new.

Northstar: I think you're correct, with the exception of, in GM's mind, Riviera.

Ninety-Eight Regency: I contend that all of GM's brands were damaged, in varying degrees, by no one other than GM itself. Poor management, a lack of vision, a lack of ideas, an interest in fast money rather than long-term, a bloated bureaucracy, hesitation to change, greed.

first comment, to Bob Lutz: The Detroit News today had an interview with Bob Lutz and showed him in his office, with a beautiful picture of the Buick Velite on his wall. C'mon Mr. Lutz, how can the car be good enough to have on the wall in your office, but GM "can't find the money or platform" to build it? Maybe he's a closet Velite supporter, and will push harder for it after Enclave is a success, we hope.

second comment, to select people: To all those people who want to limit Buick to 3 models ("No, don't give Buick a this, don't give Buick a that..." ), why should Pontiac get 5 or 6 models? In combined world sales (NA + China), Buick still sells a respectable and comparable amount, all the more impressive because it's with such poor products at the moment. Where's a halo car for Buick? Spare me the stories about GM not having money, but they have enough to build a new El Camino (yeah, that's a high priority vehicle).

third comment, to fellow Buick fans: Personally, I'm unimpressed with Buick's China line-up. The LaCrosse has nice styling, but is based on an old platform. The (current) Royaum is ugly, the Chinese GL8 minivan nothing special and we all know GM's feelings about minivans in the US, the Excelle is nothing special, the HRX is not appropriate as a NA Buick. I'm happy that Buick enjoys prestige and good sales in China, but NA Buick has better design, better products, more on the level of what Buick should and can and, hopefully, will be in the future. If you want to see what the NA global RWD Buick should be, click here and scroll down to post #84 (posts are numbered on the right).

Edited February 12, 2007 by wildcat

[aaaantoine]

In response to thread title:

In light of what Ford did with the Five Hundred, I wouldn't want to see GM bring back an old model name without the product itself being a major release or redesign. "Five hundred engineering enhancements" is not a major release if the sheetmetal is mostly the same as the predecessor.

[Chicagoland]

The ones who want LeSabre and Century back are hobbyists, not car buyers. Also, Buick has changed names before, so get with it.

[aaaantoine]

first comment, to Bob Lutz: The Detroit News today had an interview with Bob Lutz and showed him in his office, with a beautiful picture of the Buick Velite on his wall. C'mon Mr. Lutz, how can the car be good enough to have on the wall in your office, but GM "can't find the money or platform" to build it? Maybe he's a closet Velite supporter, and will push harder for it after Enclave is a success, we hope.

So they can't build it on Zeta?

[wildcat]

Just so I haven't misled anyone, Lutz' comment that they have no money or platform to build the Velite was not from today's Detroit News, it was from another interview a while back.

[daves87rs]

Non-Buick/GM fans associate "Century," and "LeSabre" with "old man's car." Perhaps that is the case with any Buick to some extent, but I doubt we'll ever see old Buick names return, and for good reason.

If they were smart-they won't come back for a long time-or ever.

The reason that Taurus can come back is-most of it buyers are still alive to remember the name......

They were both good cars-but nobody wants to waste money on a "junk"car-when you could buy a solid Civic?

Those names no longer bring up joy-just someone's beater.

The Cavalier was a pretty solid dependable car during it's lifetime, but the name will never come back-

The J is for junk J-body name didn't just pop up yesterday....

[daves87rs]

As much as some of us like the old GM names on many GM cars and grew up with them there are facts:

1. The market has changed since the 1950's to the early 1990's. GM does not own 50% of the market. I wished they still had that, but they do not. People do not want to accept that.

2. Younger buyers do not remember or have fond memories of the past GM names like most of us do. They do not know GM history either like some of the older buyers.

3. Our society has changed. People are not loyal like they were to jobs, cars and on and on.

4. The coasts (East and West) dictate a lot of the trends in this country.

5. GM is to blame for the mess they created. They are cleaning it up. GM damaged those names and brands over time. The G8 represents that time frame. It was over 20 something years.

6. Toyota aimed directly at the heart of the market and shot a bullseye just like Honda. They studied the GM buyers and GM was refusing to change because they thought they were the best and good enough.When they woke up, Honda and Toyota were knocking on the back door. They knocked so hard, they knocked the door down.

7. We sadly live in am image conscious society that is driven by greed and keeping up with everyone else.

8. GM ceased to be relevant at a point in the 1990's. I will even admit as much as I like my Oldsmobile Ninety Eight and Toronado, the versions I have are former shadows of what the cars truly were. Toroanado was getting back to that winning formula, but it by that point and time was not the only fwd car on the market.

9. The big switch of every GM car to front wheel drive and copying imports hurt GM too. They dropped the rear drive cars in 1996.

10. Plus... the big thing... Buick and other GM divisions customer base got older.

Can older names return?

Yes. It will take two generations or more. What was Grand Prix from 1988 until now would have to be forgotten. When people fondly remember Grand Prix, it was the ones from 1987 backwards.

Ford is doing something right with Taurus and Sable. Love them or hate them, those names carry some weight. Can you sat that about LeSabre or Century in the last form they were in 2003?

Let me give you an example. Let's say a well to do family bought a new car. Because of the image they maintain, what would look like when they tell their friends "I bought a Pontiac Grand Prix"? You can only the reaction they would get. The first reaction would be is that the " hired helps" car?

Take the same scenario. They instead said We bought a Pontiac G8. The first reaction would be what is that? They can brag on their car and show it off.

The GM brands are damaged GM brands and GM instead of being the great company it was is starting from scratch. They have to show they have it all over again. It is like an older baseball player coming out of retirement. Can he do it? Is he great as he once was? GM has to show the public something in order to show they have changed and have that old GM swagger. In the process of that change, they have to show they can compete, change the way they do business.

Toyota and Honda took those buyers one car and one step at a time. It is no mistake that Toyota Avalon looks like a big "American" car.

DESIGN. QUALITY. PERCEPTION.

It all has to change.

Repeated a thousand times, BUT quoted for truth. :AH-HA_wink:

[ehaase]

Value brands like Chevrolet and Ford do better with the old names, but a brand that aspires to be upscale like Buick probably needs newer names. I wouldn't be sad to see the Allure name used the Epsilon II Buick instead of LaCrosse.

[Intrepidation]

The thing is that Lucerne and LaCrosse are pretty sucky names IMO...but then so are LeSaber and Century...I dunno what would make a good name for Buick.

[bring_BUICK_back]

I have to totally disagree with the posts so far. There would be nothing wrong with Buick bringing back old, cherised names. The problem is not the name it is the fact that GM and Buick did a lousy job of marketing these vehicles and keeping them updated. Buick would not be a damaged brand if it wasn't for the stupidity at the top of GM. How they think that Buick is going to survive with 3 models while the rest of the brands have 6 or 7. Names like Electra, Roadmaster, Centrury, Regal, Invicta, Lesabre, Riviera would not be bad names to have on a vehicle. Someone needs to get their head out of their ass and do the right thing at Buick.

[K.C.]

Great comment by Chicagoland. Hobbyists do want those names to go back. Car buyers, the ones providing money for the company, do not. Simple as that. The market has changed and GM needs to be proactive in dealing with market changes.

All of the cars listed above in "BRING BUICK BACK's" post all give the preception of something their grandparents would drive, and even at 40, I will not buy an old person's car. I will, however, by a car that is too young for me. I don't think I'm with the minority. Most people dont want an old person's car. You don't see many teenagers and people in their 20's aspiring to own a Century or a Roadmaster.

[Cananopie]

Is this why GM is going to use "Super" for the new upper-end LaCrosse and possibly Lucerne? Because the market has changed and nobody likes old names anymore?

If there was one old name hobbyists weren't asking to see come back is "Super." I highly doubt the trans-generational famous names such as LeSabre, Skylark, Century, Roadmaster, or Riviera (and potentially a few others) are gone for good. Sure- some might be permanently on the shelves but Buick's current priority is to make Buick look like a fresh attended-to brand which it had not been for at least a decade and was quite well known. However when the names lose their stagnation in a decade hence and they become "classic" names which people have usually a positive reminiscent feelings about them they should (I hope) have more appeal than alpha-numerics. Buick is proud of its heritage as well and can easily use it as a selling point at any time and in fact they're stupid for not playing up on it with all of the innovations its had and leading vehicles. GM seems to reserve that kind of advertising to Chevy even though Buick is the oldest GM brand let alone its founding company.

[carstar]

Is this why GM is going to use "Super" for the new upper-end LaCrosse and possibly Lucerne? Because the market has changed and nobody likes old names anymore?

If there was one old name hobbyists weren't asking to see come back is "Super." I highly doubt the trans-generational famous names such as LeSabre, Skylark, Century, Roadmaster, or Riviera (and potentially a few others) are gone for good. Sure- some might be permanently on the shelves but Buick's current priority is to make Buick look like a fresh attended-to brand which it had not been for at least a decade and was quite well known. However when the names lose their stagnation in a decade hence and they become "classic" names which people have usually a positive reminiscent feelings about them they should (I hope) have more appeal than alpha-numerics. Buick is proud of its heritage as well and can easily use it as a selling point at any time and in fact they're stupid for not playing up on it with all of the innovations its had and leading vehicles. GM seems to reserve that kind of advertising to Chevy even though Buick is the oldest GM brand let alone its founding company.

" Super" is a trim name for buick, just like chevy's "SS"

[carstar]

Is this why GM is going to use "Super" for the new upper-end LaCrosse and possibly Lucerne? Because the market has changed and nobody likes old names anymore?

If there was one old name hobbyists weren't asking to see come back is "Super." I highly doubt the trans-generational famous names such as LeSabre, Skylark, Century, Roadmaster, or Riviera (and potentially a few others) are gone for good. Sure- some might be permanently on the shelves but Buick's current priority is to make Buick look like a fresh attended-to brand which it had not been for at least a decade and was quite well known. However when the names lose their stagnation in a decade hence and they become "classic" names which people have usually a positive reminiscent feelings about them they should (I hope) have more appeal than alpha-numerics. Buick is proud of its heritage as well and can easily use it as a selling point at any time and in fact they're stupid for not playing up on it with all of the innovations its had and leading vehicles. GM seems to reserve that kind of advertising to Chevy even though Buick is the oldest GM brand let alone its founding company.

" Super" is a trim name for buick, just like chevy's "SS"

[carstar]

Is this why GM is going to use "Super" for the new upper-end LaCrosse and possibly Lucerne? Because the market has changed and nobody likes old names anymore?

If there was one old name hobbyists weren't asking to see come back is "Super." I highly doubt the trans-generational famous names such as LeSabre, Skylark, Century, Roadmaster, or Riviera (and potentially a few others) are gone for good. Sure- some might be permanently on the shelves but Buick's current priority is to make Buick look like a fresh attended-to brand which it had not been for at least a decade and was quite well known. However when the names lose their stagnation in a decade hence and they become "classic" names which people have usually a positive reminiscent feelings about them they should (I hope) have more appeal than alpha-numerics. Buick is proud of its heritage as well and can easily use it as a selling point at any time and in fact they're stupid for not playing up on it with all of the innovations its had and leading vehicles. GM seems to reserve that kind of advertising to Chevy even though Buick is the oldest GM brand let alone its founding company.

" Super" is a trim name for buick, just like chevy's "SS"

[carstar]

Is this why GM is going to use "Super" for the new upper-end LaCrosse and possibly Lucerne? Because the market has changed and nobody likes old names anymore?

If there was one old name hobbyists weren't asking to see come back is "Super." I highly doubt the trans-generational famous names such as LeSabre, Skylark, Century, Roadmaster, or Riviera (and potentially a few others) are gone for good. Sure- some might be permanently on the shelves but Buick's current priority is to make Buick look like a fresh attended-to brand which it had not been for at least a decade and was quite well known. However when the names lose their stagnation in a decade hence and they become "classic" names which people have usually a positive reminiscent feelings about them they should (I hope) have more appeal than alpha-numerics. Buick is proud of its heritage as well and can easily use it as a selling point at any time and in fact they're stupid for not playing up on it with all of the innovations its had and leading vehicles. GM seems to reserve that kind of advertising to Chevy even though Buick is the oldest GM brand let alone its founding company.

" Super" is a trim name for buick, just like chevy's "SS"

[Cananopie]

" Super" is a trim name for buick, just like chevy's "SS"

I know this. The fact remains they chose it over a new Buick "word." Which means old Buick names are not gone for good... especially if they are willing to use the name (I know it's a trim level) "Super."

[6t5frlane]

Please do not bring these names back. I think the 08 Malibu looks great BUT they should have called it something else to attract the younger ffolks

[ponchoman49]

What is wrong with the name Regal. That name can be used on both NA and Canadian models, doesn't mean masterbation in French and doesn't use up 2 names for one car which is ludicrous. Also LeSabre was on the best seller list for 10 years running. Can the Lucerne say that?

[Cananopie]

What is wrong with the name Regal. That name can be used on both NA and Canadian models, doesn't mean masterbation in French and doesn't use up 2 names for one car which is ludicrous. Also LeSabre was on the best seller list for 10 years running. Can the Lucerne say that?

NA includes Canada. It's a stupid problem to begin with because Canada's national summertime sport is recognized as Lacrosse. Canada can handle the "ridicule" that it faces for it apparently having a national sport of "masturbation" which is a small niche within the French-Canadian culture which isn't too extensive considering the size of Canada in the first place. It was a stupid move by GM or Buick or whoever was afraid that such a small subculture would tarnish the name of the vehicle because of a goofy code name for masturbation.

The new names are already here, let's just be thankful they haven't changed any of them to alpha-numerics and hope they remember the large cache of excellent Buick names from the past.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Here's a question, are the car names and brands damaged or is the name General Motors damaged itself, perhaps General Motors is the name that needs to changed and not the car names and brands themselves.

Perhaps the solution is to change all the names, (cars, brands, company), the whole ball of wax!

Edited March 13, 2007 by Pontiac-Custom-S

[Ravenfreak13]

I think certain names should stay dead....

century-100 years...o my oldness

lasabre-sounds like a midevil weapon....oldness

Roadmaster- everytime I hear that i think of "wagon" for some reason

I do like park avenue and regal though...very classy.

And If buick wanted to break back into the sport market...Electra is a great name to bring back....It's sounds very sporty and a certain celebrity comes to mind...

It would make a great hardtop.

Invicta is cool too.

[berg0449]

They really do have both LeSabre and Lucerne, just not be names.

I have a fully loaded Lucerne, but my mom has the basic Lucerne.

I see her Lucerne as a modified LeSabre. They could have easily kept the LeSabre name for the basic model. I bet they would get a lot more basic Lucerne sales that way.

I love the Lucerne name for my car. I do not have a "old man car" version. By the way, it helps with a black on black Lucerne. It gets a lot of looks from young people.

Edited March 14, 2007 by berg0449

[Paolino]

Raven,

I LOVED the names Park Avenue and Regal. I'd even like to see Riviera return.

[OCcarnut]

Another key issue is that there are simply not that many good names left. Most good names are already trademarked for use by other manufacturers, or companies within the automotive "industry". That is the reason that we see so many alpha-numerics. When Suzuki launched the new Grand Vitara (I know, I know), they contemplated calling it GV6..not a bad name...almost immediately that was dropped becasuse of its similarity to the Pontiac G6 and GM would have balked. Similar situation with Audi...the Q7 created an issue with Infinity because they have the Q56. So, not alot of good actual "names" are available and even the alpha-numeric names are getting tight.

[Robert Hall]

As far as vintage Buick names, my favorites are probably Electra, Invicta, Riviera. I couldn't see Skylark or Skyhawk working today, or Roadmaster..they sound old, IMHO.

[InvictaMan]

I think the problem is not with the names, but how GM plundered the validity of the names by not keeping up with the competition. Tapping in on Buick history for names is not a bad thing, as long as you make the product appealing to the current market. Buick slipped on this in the later part of the 20th century and now they are struggling to overcome these stigmas. If you slapped the name Electra or Invicta, two very marketable names with today’s buyers, on a Velite... I think young folks would snatch them up. And better yet, the forty-something set (like me) and above would take pride in reviving the nomenclatures on models that are deserving of their heritage. I agree that Skylark and Skyhawk and even LeSabre are not valid in today's market. The first two were great in the 70s (remember the Buick Freedom commercials with the soaring hawk?), and LeSabre was always lame (it was a GM concept car from the dawn of time), but it worked for that period. They are just too cutesie and gimmicky. As stated above, today's consumers are more image conscious and sophisticated. They prefer names with an edge to them. And please God, let their please be no more alphanumeric possibilities left. Talk about a marketing nightmare, who can tell them apart?

Edited April 4, 2007 by InvictaMan