Another analyst predicting Toyota to be #1

[Guest gmrebirth]

Except not.
On a fuel savings basis (Which is why we build hybrids right?) they indeed have.
GM hybrid buses have been on sale for 4 or 5 years now.
As does GM; in D.C.
Which isn't many in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the U.S. is by far the LARGEST market for hybrids.
And why doesn't it? Who says? It is in fact a hybrid isn't it? Just because they didn't make a worhtless "Gee whiz" mobile like Toyota and instead decided to focus on real USEFUL technology doesn't mean it isn't a real hybrid.

See that's the thing with import-minded people.. No mater how good GM becomes, they will still refuse to belief it and continue to JUSTIFY their bias against the company. Same with the Ford hybrids.

[post="24341"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM so far has sold how many hybrid buses?

And isn't the point of hybrids all above helping the environment? The fuel savings go along with that, but the *main* point of hybrids is emissions. And in terms of overall fuel saved and emissions, Toyota has done more on the hybrid front than GM, whether you want to believe it or not.

Toyota has sold over 300,000 Priuses already, and counting.

The average Joe *cannot* go and just simply buy a GM hybrid bus for personal use.

They are not publically available vehicles.

I can go *right now* to Japan and buy myself a Hino hybrid diesel truck. That's the difference.

Please, don't beat this dead horse any more. The Sierra is not a "hybrid" because all it does is turn off the motor at a red light. It does nothing more than that. There are no additional electrical motors that provide additional power on top of the gas engine.

The joint GM/DCX/BMW hybrid tech will be a true hybrid system, not some phoney baloney coined by marketing "hybrid".

You seem to be blinded by your own bias. I try and remain neutral and partial to all companies, and give credit where it is due. Of course, I am a GM fan, but I try and keep my bias to a minimum, and I acknowledge and respect the competition. GM needs a *major* revolution for it to turn itself around, as right now, GM is going nowhere fast.

You people never credit Toyota's hybrid tech in Japan, yet continually talk about GM's hybrid busses. Is that not considered bias? Edited October 5, 2005 by gmrebirth

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

[quote]And isn't the point of hybrids all above helping the environment? The fuel savings go along with that, but the *main* point of hybrids is emissions.[/quote]

mmmkay.... whatever you say.

[quote]And in terms of overall fuel saved and emissions, Toyota has done more on the hybrid front than GM, whether you want to believe it or not.[/quote]

And I should believe this why? Because you the import person says so? Typical.

[quote]The average Joe *cannot* go and just simply buy a GM hybrid bus for personal use.[/quote]

And that has anything to do with what???? If your main concern is to save the environment, then wouldn't reducing the maximum amount of emissions be the goal instead of giving prententious, self righteous, baby boomers a new fad to rub in the face of their neighbors?

[quote]I can go *right now* to Japan and buy myself a Hino hybrid diesel truck. That's the difference.[/quote]

Okay... Because the average Japanese citizen buys a commercial medium duty truck as a daily driver.

[quote]Please, don't beat this dead horse any more. The Sierra is not a "hybrid" because all it does is turn off the motor at a red light. It does nothing more than that. There are no additional electrical motors that provide additional power on top of the gas engine.[/quote]

And that makes a difference because? Is there some magical Websters definition for "Hybrid and how it is built" I guess too many people have been brainwashed into the Toyota way or no way thinking of the media.

[quote]You seem to be blinded by your own bias. I try and remain neutral and partial to all companies, and give credit where it is due. Of course, I am a GM fan, but I try and keep my bias to a minimum, and I acknowledge and respect the competition. GM needs a *major* revolution for it to turn itself around, as right now, GM is going nowhere fast.

You people never credit Toyota's hybrid tech in Japan, yet continually talk about GM's hybrid busses. Is that not considered bias?[/quote]

Okay... If I have to repeat this one more time I'm going to scream. (I've said this 4 times in the past 2 days)

WE ARE Cheers and Gears, a GM ENTHUSIAST SITE. We are NOT unbiased. I am horribly biased, I HATE Toyota more than I hate a baby killer. THIS IS a GM enthusiast site, NOT an IMPORT FRIENDLY media outlet.

This will be my last post on this topic.

[frogger]

As long as Toyota builds cars people want including commuter car hybrids, while GM makes large questionable decisions and wastes resources and development time on companies like Fiat, Subaru and Saab, Toyota will continue to gain on GM.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

the only alternative is for GM and Ford to band together and buyout Chrysler group and form an alliance called the Big 3 and devote all resources into top notch powertrain design and quality. :P

[Member55]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford and GM eventually form some kind of alliance. If they keep loosing market share.

[toyoguy]

On a fuel savings basis (Which is why we build hybrids right?) they indeed have.

[post="24341"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Somehow I doubt a couple hundred hybrid buses compare to the fuel savings of 100K+ Priuses sold.

[Northstar]

Actually, I think the hybrid buses do save as much if not more than the Priuses. The buses save some huge amount, while the Prius is about 45 MPG whereas a Civic would be 35 MPG anyways. You wouldn't save a significant amount of gas because you're already getting pretty good mileage if you would have bought a Civic rather than a Prius. Buses on the other hand get such shitty mileage to begin with, that even a 5 MPG increase probably saves a gallon ever 5 miles... mulitply that times probably at least 200 miles a day the bus drives, and you save 50 gallons of gas PER DAY PER BUS (of course I'm just guessing what the bus gets, but it's probably a significant MPG % increase whereas the Prius is not). I don't remember exactly, but I think GM said if the 14 largest bus systems or cities converted to the hybrid buses it would save like 200 million gallons of gas.