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Honda sued over gas mileage clames

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32 mpg combined? In a hybrid?

Get the f@#k out of my country, Honda.

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Oh my God... I can't WAIT for it to happen to Toyota! Albeit the Prius does get much higher than 32mpg, it still comes nowhere as close as it claims... or the EPA does.

Speaking of, shouldn't the guy be suing the EPA? It's not Honda who certified the fuel economy, it's the outdated EPA tests. I wonder what the numbers will be for next year.

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i love this. this is really bad PR for hybrids and honda and toyo.

my buddy just got a plain civic after balking at the extra cost of the hybrid. i bet he'd be happy to see this article.

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Sadly, all the EPA numbers are pretty bogus, especially with smaller engines that are low in torque (read: most Japanese engines). These engines suffer dramatically when driven in the real world. Both Toyota and Honda have been accused of designing and building vehicles that do well on the tests, but perform less than spectacularly in the real world. Honda's apparent "lying" would be proof, I would submit. Although the manufacturer will blame the driver (doesn't that sound familiar - Toyota's coking problem?), any city driver is going to see a significant drop, unless they drive like my Great Aunt. (and she is dead.)

Bad publicity is great, but all this world needs is another LAWSUIT.

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. Both Toyota and Honda have been accused of designing and building vehicles that do well on the tests, but perform less than spectacularly in the real world.

I have also heard something like this pertaining to crash test ratings. Basically some manufacturers are/were diesigning vehicles that would do good in Goverment/Insurance tests, but in reality didn't fare so well in real crashes.

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The owner used to drive a Mercedes, he probably has a lead foot. :AH-HA_wink:

Environmental Protection Agency and automobile window stickers say "mileage will vary,"...That implies that it's possible to get the mileage advertised, said William H. Anderson, a Washington, D.C., attorney for True.

Well, gee, maybe that's because it is indeed possible. Mr. Attorney here doesn't know the different between a necessity and a possibility, and needs to go back to school and take Philosophy 101 again.

"It's just dishonest to twist the numbers that they know people can't get," Anderson said. Just because the EPA conducts tests, it doesn't give Honda license to advertise fuel economy numbers that aren't achievable, he said.

Just because Joe Blow can't get the EPA rated mileage, doesn't mean nobody else can. The grounds of this lawsuit are retarded.

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I have also heard something like this pertaining to crash test ratings. Basically some manufacturers are/were diesigning vehicles that would do good in Goverment/Insurance tests, but in reality didn't fare so well in real crashes.

Well, let's face it, the Aveo has a 5 Star rating, but that is if it drives into a brick wall! :banghead: If you slam it into a Ford Excursion - well, I don't suppose there would be any stars at all, unless they were the cartoon kind.

All those tests are done in a vacuum, supposedly to keep them uniform, but anyone who drives into a brick wall, head on at 45 mph, deserves what's comingn to 'em!

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Speaking of, shouldn't the guy be suing the EPA? It's not Honda who certified the fuel economy, it's the outdated EPA tests. I wonder what the numbers will be for next year.

totally. but surely they can do things to help with the now "outdated" tests.

in the local paper friday edition, a write-in to click and clack, was saying he got ..low 40's traveling from memphis to texarcana and back, iirc driving 60 instead of 75, in a 3.5L malibu.

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The owner used to drive a Mercedes, he probably has a lead foot. :AH-HA_wink:

Well, gee, maybe that's because it is indeed possible. Mr. Attorney here doesn't know the different between a necessity and a possibility, and needs to go back to school and take Philosophy 101 again.

Just because Joe Blow can't get the EPA rated mileage, doesn't mean nobody else can. The grounds of this lawsuit are retarded.

i get 43. i think the mileage figures are unattainable. that said, the city driving one is far off, or the EPA lives in a city with all downhill roads and rare traffic jams. the highway mileage is closer to being attainable, i'd say a long distance trip with solid steady traffic, i could get 47mpg...possibly. city driving is a different story. depends on what city, and what kind of conditions. stop and go can be good for hybrids, but not if you're having to floor it, followed by hard brake, followed by floor it....all in the name of getting ahead.
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Is Toyota next. :scratchchin:

God I hope so!

I'll keep my fingers crossed. :D

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I want the Prius to get bit by this simply because I'm sick of hearing and seeing that stupid wedge of crap that dares call itself an automobile.

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It couldn't have happened to a nicer car company! :smilewide:

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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totally. but surely they can do things to help with the now "outdated" tests.

These "outdated tests" have been updated TWICE in the past 20 years, most recently for the 2008 model year. A while back, they ran the tests and then lowered the numbers by 10% and 22% (if I remember correctly) the city and highway figures. So the figures for 2007 tests are significantly lower than what they would have been in the late 1980s. And for 2008, they'll be even lower.

Just because a person or a magazine doesn't get close to the EPA ESTIMATES doesn't mean there's something wrong with the figures. EPA figures are based on all cars running on the same route so that the average consumer can compare two vehicles. If you drive a Civic Hybrid harsh (the way most magazine writers do), you're not going to come close to the EPA estimates. If you drive the Civic Hybrid like it's supposed to be driven, you'll get OUTSTANDING gas mileage. But you do have to modify your driving slightly.

You wouldn't drive a Ferrari the way you'd drive a Lincoln Town Car (and vice versa), why should it be any different if you're trying to drive for gas mileage? You can drive a Prius or Civic Hybrid (or ANY hybrid) and get amazing gas mileage, but you can't beat on it like most Americans drive.

I don't see any of this as bad publicity for Honda. It's bad publicity for the American legal system if anything.

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truth is, as hybrids have gotten initial acceptance, it was the ecoweenie types who bought them and there are types who either didn't drive aggressively to begin with, or

they are the types that will stare at their mpg gauge in heavy traffic, coasting and stuff, while pissed off drivers attempt to weave around them.

the hybrid PR buzz went into overdrive and now you got everyday folks looking for them.

These folks will want to drive them just like they drove every other car they've owned. Full tilt.

Frankly, a lawusit is needed to draw attention to these cars not delivering real world mpg for average drivers.

That said, GM needed to offer a few models with real hybrid tech (not just BAS). The Malibu and Aura, Vue, Equinox, Tahoe (etc.). Lambdas might benefit from a hybrid also.

Let's put it this way, Nissan was even basically saying that hybrid is not worth it when it introduced the new Altima hybrid. They had already jumped in with both feet though.

Hybrid would be ready for big time if it didn't cost so much and add so much complexity. It will be YEARS before repair shops are capable of handling routine fixes on hybrid powertrains.

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Just give me a quiet clean running diesel. :thumbsup:

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Just give me a quiet clean running diesel. :thumbsup:

Honda will have one for you in a couple of years, replacing the Accord hybrid.
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These "outdated tests" have been updated TWICE in the past 20 years, most recently for the 2008 model year. A while back, they ran the tests and then lowered the numbers by 10% and 22% (if I remember correctly) the city and highway figures. So the figures for 2007 tests are significantly lower than what they would have been in the late 1980s. And for 2008, they'll be even lower.

Just because a person or a magazine doesn't get close to the EPA ESTIMATES doesn't mean there's something wrong with the figures. EPA figures are based on all cars running on the same route so that the average consumer can compare two vehicles. If you drive a Civic Hybrid harsh (the way most magazine writers do), you're not going to come close to the EPA estimates. If you drive the Civic Hybrid like it's supposed to be driven, you'll get OUTSTANDING gas mileage. But you do have to modify your driving slightly.

You wouldn't drive a Ferrari the way you'd drive a Lincoln Town Car (and vice versa), why should it be any different if you're trying to drive for gas mileage? You can drive a Prius or Civic Hybrid (or ANY hybrid) and get amazing gas mileage, but you can't beat on it like most Americans drive.

I don't see any of this as bad publicity for Honda. It's bad publicity for the American legal system if anything.

sorry, should've put the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] in my post about the "outdated" part of it. i regularly get about -1 mpg than what my car was rated at, not driving all out or like the stereotyped grandmother.
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I find it funny that my saturn gets 40 mpg while a car the same size needs to be a hybrid to get that...if it even gets that.

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totally. but surely they can do things to help with the now "outdated" tests.

in the local paper friday edition, a write-in to click and clack, was saying he got ..low 40's traveling from memphis to texarcana and back, iirc driving 60 instead of 75, in a 3.5L malibu.

LOL, LOL.....I don't believe that in a heartbeat.

I have a tough enough time believing low-30's.....but low 40's? No way man.....

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LOL, LOL.....I don't believe that in a heartbeat.

I have a tough enough time believing low-30's.....but low 40's? No way man.....

just telling what i read.

google maps says it's 277miles on I40 to I30...anyway...

from what it said

wife and I drove from Memphis to Texarkana, which is 300 miles. I set the cruise at 60mph.... when i pulled into the gas stationand put 6.73 gallons in the tank

goes on to say he drove his 2004 malibu with the 3.5L V-6 with 76K miles on it. figured mileage based on google is more like 41. not his claimed 44.5 in the paper. not sure how hilly that area is.
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I find it funny that my saturn gets 40 mpg while a car the same size needs to be a hybrid to get that...if it even gets that.

My car gets over 100mpg....... rolling downhill with a tail wind.

Hybrids are completely useless! :AH-HA_wink:

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My car gets over 100mpg....... rolling downhill with a tail wind.

Hybrids are completely useless! :AH-HA_wink:

Down the Hamilton Escarpment (read: giant cliff) in a low gear, I once read 1.1 L/100km on the computer.

1.1 l/100km = 213.83144 miles per gallon

Obviously hybrids are unnecessary. :lol2:

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