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hyperv6

Lutz reveals B Pillar on the Camaro

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Here is some note on the new Camaro by Bob on Edmonds

SANTA MONICA, Calif. — GM product guru Bob Lutz has confirmed that unlike the Camaro concept car and the 1969 Camaro it emulates, the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro will not be a true hardtop when it reaches production.

Despite the fact that GM Chairman Rick Wagoner originally said the 2010 Camaro would be "virtually identical" to designer Sangyup Lee's concept that debuted at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show, Lutz confirmed that the production Camaro will in fact have a B-pillar, making it a standard coupe instead of a traditional hardtop coupe.

Lutz said the standard coupe structure is necessary to keep production costs down and ensure the Camaro's frame is as light and tight and possible.

The same fate is true for the Dodge Challenger. The Challenger concept was also presented as a hardtop coupe in 2006, but the 2008 production version will be a standard coupe when it goes on sale next spring.

What this means to you: Cost-cutting has killed the hardtop coupe for the everyman, with the last holdouts belonging to Bentley and Mercedes.

First let me note that this is no suprise to most of us.

To build this car with a 5 star rating at the price point of a Mustang and under 4,000 lbs the b pillar is needed for strength.

That B pillar will save you money to buy and insure and just might save a few Lives here.

GM has to deal with the cards they are delt. They are no different from us and do have limitations placed on them for the things they can or want to do. If there was any way they could match the Mustang in price and keep the weight under 4,000 lbs You whould know they would have done it. The first priority is to keep this car safe and competitive in price and performance.

There has yet to be a car that really ever came out the exact way a company had invisioned it. While we can dream about these cars we still have to understand it is still a buisness and they have to turn a buck or they would not have given the go ahead to build this car at all.

The Charger is getting one too so it is the reality of a car under $50k.

Most of us will have the air on anyway and the windows up. Even the first Gens were driven with the rear windows up 90% of the time as power windows were rare and few took the time to lower them anyway.

We will see a few more changes as this is a real car and not a show car. IF you don't make the changes the price gets away or likethe ergonomics in the SSR were you have to open the door to reach and adjust the seat buttons.

Also note the 2010 date is accurate as it will be released in Feb 09 as a early 2010. This has been a trend of many new GM cars going back to the March 03 release of the 04 GP. So no the date has not been moved back it is still Feb 09.

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My oh my, what will SixtyEight say? :smilewide:

God dammit.

Or at least that's what I said...I'm sure his words will be much harsher...

I can't say I didn't expect this to happen...MB may still make hardtops, but MB's are also much more expensive and heavy.

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hyper: twice you mentioned "under 4000 lbs"; have there EVER been any educated guesstimations on exactly how much weight a hardtop Camaro would have to gain vs. a coupe? I get the impression that some think it's literally many 100s of lbs. Should be no more than 75, based on past weight differences hardtop vs. coupe.

Personally, I do not think this will limit sales, and if I personally was in the market for a Camaro, I'd still buy, but I do think it sucks all the same.

Sixty8... man... sorry.

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No big deal..and besides, the convertible won't have a b-pillar.

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Poor Sixty8! I guess there goes one sale for GM in 15 years. :smilewide:

I don't particularly see the benefit of the hardtop design over a fixed B-pillar. I will love it no matter if it is remotely close to the looks of the concept.

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No big deal. Would it have been nice? Yes, but they'll still sell just as well had it been a hardtop.

I agree..

The B pillar means nothing to me either. Black it out so its not visable and thats fine.

I'd rather have a lighter more rigid chassis any day of the week.

JMO

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hyper: twice you mentioned "under 4000 lbs"; have there EVER been any educated guesstimations on exactly how much weight a hardtop Camaro would have to gain vs. a coupe? I get the impression that some think it's literally many 100s of lbs. Should be no more than 75, based on past weight differences hardtop vs. coupe.

How old are those cars you're comparing, and what crash worthiness testing did they have to endure?

+1 for "woulda been cool, but light weight & rigidity > lack of b pillar"

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hyper: twice you mentioned "under 4000 lbs"; have there EVER been any educated guesstimations on exactly how much weight a hardtop Camaro would have to gain vs. a coupe? I get the impression that some think it's literally many 100s of lbs. Should be no more than 75, based on past weight differences hardtop vs. coupe.

Personally, I do not think this will limit sales, and if I personally was in the market for a Camaro, I'd still buy, but I do think it sucks all the same.

Sixty8... man... sorry.

I have not seen any estimated numbers from those who know as they are not talking specifics. But I have heard them say they are saving weight anyway and any where they can.

As it was explained to me the story is this. GM has to have a 5 star on this car as Insurance companies will shread it other wise. That is a GM priority but it plays havoc with keeping the weight and price down. They can use lightweight metals but cost goes up in a car that can't afford to get too expensive. I know most know this already but it is what those from GM are saying and not speculation.

I would guess the weight is at least 100 lbs if it is a true hard top but also factor in the added cost to make it stronger and the more work needed on the line to build it.

I really think cost it the larger factor in the end. To back this up they have a Convertible coming so we know this car has a stronger platform but keep in mind it will be a little heavier but it will be much more expensive than the base coupe. But in the end Convertibles are never as strong or stiff. Even the best Verts still have some flex or cowl shake.

One other factor is performance in handling. One needs a stiff platform for great handling and we have promised class leading handling by Fbodfather a while back so this show it has also been a priority.

The 80 Mustang is a good example of how much the roof effects a car. The Fox body with a trunk was much Cheaper to build, stiffer and lighter vs the vert or hatch.

Over all reaction here has been better than on the Camaro web site. I know most here deal with reality better as most here have a good understanding of all the factors and challanges involved to build a car like this like em or not.

As for those who don't understand they will just have to find a way to deal with it.

I know a few puist will grumble but in the end you have to do what is best to keep the pice in line and overall perfomance of the car vs a small styling element that most average buyers will never know any different it is there. I am sure it will be hidden in black and maybe even in a flush fit of the glass?

In the long run GM will sell more cars with the benifits [cost, strength and weight] with the B pillar vs the styling effect without. The bottom line is how many in the general buying public that will purchase this car even know what a B pillar even is.

They have looked at this car so much that they really have factored in having a lower perfoming V6 to satisfy those driver [read you females] who don't car for perfomance and just care about style. They don't want to have to deal with a car that could be more challanging to drive in poor weather or could get away from them after they trade in the Cavalier for this car. That may be why they are looking at two V6 models.

I find those who like the Challanger are the ones going to pay the price as it also has the B pillar and I will be shocked if it comes in under 4000 lbs by much. The mules have been every bit as big as the show car and that is a lot of metal.

It may have a Hemi and no V6 but it will need it to move and handling will suffer as when you throw tha much mass around it is hard to change it's direction in mid turn.

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Yikers.....

*pauses*

But, this isn't so bad ... at least the Camaro IS coming back ... right?

Come to think of it, the Monte Carlo was only a hard top for one generation ... 1970-1972 ... the rest of the generations had a B pillar.

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Can you make folks feel what you feel inside?" ... David Allen Coe ... 'The Ride'

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Did anybody seriously think that the Camaro was going to be a hardtop? It was hard enough to make a business case for the Camaro with it competing with less expensive coupes. The rear side window probably would also need to be reshaped to go down, and that would have made for a less attractive greenhouse.

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big honkin V8... check

RWD... check

b-pillar... Who gives a rip

the fact of the matter is everyone cried foul when it was over in 2002... with the exception of ford that is.

most people could really care less and most wont know the difference. i cant wait for them to hit the streets... got 7 long years of backorder camaro whoopings to hand out

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I can't wait to hear all about the production version, and to see it... wow.
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will the rear windows roll down? it is a valid question.

I would guess that no, they won't. I would bet it will be a fixed piece of glass. Would look better that way anyway.

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Disappointing, but not devastating. Given the American addiction to the appearance of safety in all things, I guess it had to be.

Too bad really, that we are so hyper-focused on safety all the time. And, that only the wealthy get to have true hardtops these days.

Just another casualty of our over-regulated lives.

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