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Big News at 2:30 EST

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There is going to be a news conference at 2:30 regarding the auto makers bailout.

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There is going to be a news conference at 2:30 regarding the auto makers bailout.

That they voted unanimously to deny the big 3 a bailout.

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Good. Now we can move on to talking about the bailout required in April/May.

I guess we will have to wait to see the details, but it sounds like the money that was meant for retooling for fuel efficient cars (if you believed that) has just been spent to survive another four months. I'd say that they just ate their future, but I'm pretty sure that happened a long time ago.

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I figured something was going down..been watching Ford and GM stock prices all morning...

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I wonder if Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc that have plants here are going to complain they aren't getting a piece of the pie?

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I wonder if Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc that have plants here are going to complain they aren't getting a piece of the pie?

Let them go to their own government.

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Let them go to their own government.

I'm sure they would complain to their US senators and representatives that they've bought off...(i.e. from the states w/ their plants)

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The vote has been put off until December so that GM Ford and Chrysler can have a detailed explanation for what they will actually do with the money. Regarding foreign makers, if the US companies get a bailout one will almost certainly befall the German makers.

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The legislators want to see some sort of "plan" from the automakers with how they're going to spend the money, but the only thing that's going to happen is that money is going to keep them afloat until their costs go down so that they can make money again. What more do they want other than what GM already has planned?

GM should just go bankrupt so it can get rid of all its costs, then ask the government for a $25 billion "restart" loan... $25 billion should be enough money to make 20-25 world-class products.

GM would be amazing if it had best-in-class Malibu, Cruze, Silverado, Traverse, Equinox, Aveo, Corvette, Camaro, CTS, STS, Alpha Cadillac, SRX, XLR, 7-Series competitor, etc. That's only 14, they'd still have money for 6+ more models. This is why GM probably is best off getting down to 3-4 brands. That's a lot of products and it doesn't even include all of Cadillac and Chevy. There still needs to be money left over for Pontiac, Buick, GMC, and Saturn, which is why Pontiac is becoming expensive Chevy cars and GMC are more expensive Chevy trucks. Even Buick isn't becoming anything besides fancy Chevy's (but they are unique, at least), and Saturn is just Opel... really GM is only investing money in 2 1/2 or 3 brands.

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The legislators want to see some sort of "plan" from the automakers with how they're going to spend the money, but the only thing that's going to happen is that money is going to keep them afloat until their costs go down so that they can make money again. What more do they want other than what GM already has planned?

so i guess we need to fax them the minutes from the past few UAW meetings and GM's "homework" will be done then

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Wanting a plan is reasonable, I knew they would want one. I don't know why Red Ink Rick thought he didn't need a plan and they would just fork over the money. What the 3 CEOs failed to do is explain how they will pay the money back. All they did was try to scare Congress and say jobs would be lost if we don't get money. They need to present a real recovery plan, unfortunately, I don't think they have one.

Northstar is right about needed to get down to 3-4 brands and 25 solid models. I said that years ago, but everyone argued that Pontiac and Buick have such great history and we can't get rid of them. They need class leaders, not 20 front drive generics and 20 mid-size SUVs.

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Good. Now we can move on to talking about the bailout required in April/May.

I guess we will have to wait to see the details, but it sounds like the money that was meant for retooling for fuel efficient cars (if you believed that) has just been spent to survive another four months. I'd say that they just ate their future, but I'm pretty sure that happened a long time ago.

Hey genius, it kind of is their plan, or did you forget about the Volt, Cruze, Chrysler's subcompact, and Ford's retooling of truck plants to build small cars. So yes, it is to be believed.

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Wanting a plan is reasonable, I knew they would want one. I don't know why Red Ink Rick thought he didn't need a plan and they would just fork over the money.

Actually Wagoneer played this brilliantly. If he came with a plan, congress would have wanted yet another loop to jump through. This part of "negotiating" is taught in the last week of MBA school. You have something to look forward to!

Seriously the posters here may be up to there eye balls in the minutia of the turn around plans, but would congress be so "into it". Imagine if the bailout was for the light-bulb industry. How many of us would feel confident without some hand holding by the bright guys at the bulb industry.

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The vote has been put off until December so that GM Ford and Chrysler can have a detailed explanation for what they will actually do with the money. Regarding foreign makers, if the US companies get a bailout one will almost certainly befall the German makers.

Democratic leaders in the house and senate shut it down because a bipartisan agreement that the administration supported was reached without their approval.

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Pelosi to Auto Industry: Show Us a Plan for Viability

WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and House and Senate Democratic leaders held a news conference this afternoon in the Capitol to discuss aid to the domestic auto industry. Below are the Speaker's opening remarks:

"Thank you very much, Mr. Leader. I wish to associate myself with your

remarks because I think that you have clearly laid out what the

challenge is to our economy, to the auto industry and to Congress as we

go forth.

"It is all about accountability and about viability. Until we can see a

plan where the auto industry is held accountable and a plan for

viability on how they go into the future, until they show us the plan,

we cannot show them the money.

"And that is really where we are with this. I want to join the Leader

in saluting those who have worked so hard on this, and add to that our

Michigan delegation in the House of Representatives.

"The auto industry is very important to our country. It is essential,

its survival is essential, to maintaining our industrial and

manufacturing base. That industrial base is essential to our national

security. So, for reasons of our national security, for reasons that

relate to the health of our financial community, and for reasons that relate to the needs of the workers who will be affected by this, it is

essential that we see some restructuring, some path to viability, from

the auto industry.

"The Leader addressed what that meant in a timetable. I know Leader

Hoyer will adjust that as well so I won't go into that. But again, we

reject those who are advocating bankruptcy for the industry. We reject

that. But we do want to work together, and I don't think we saw very

much in the hearings of the last few days that gave us the confidence

that we can act upon it legislatively.

"Hopefully, in another week or two, we can see a plan that can take us

viably into the future with accountability to the American people before

we spend another dollar of their tax dollars. Thank you, Mr. Leader."

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Actually Wagoneer played this brilliantly. If he came with a plan, congress would have wanted yet another loop to jump through.

He didn't play it well at all, he should have said we need X amount of money and we will do A, B, and C to make sure that we pay it back. GM is going to have to file for bankruptcy in January, they have zero time to negotiate or play games with Congress.

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He didn't play it well at all, he should have said we need X amount of money and we will do A, B, and C to make sure that we pay it back. GM is going to have to file for bankruptcy in January, they have zero time to negotiate or play games with Congress.

:soapbox:

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Our politicians are pure, self-serving, scum!

AMEN.

If they could stamp a UPC code onto our foreheads and pass a laser counter over it while we are sleeping ....

:unitedstates:

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Yeah, I kind of figured this would happen. I'm not entirely sure how this will pan out, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder if GM is going to get their money. Even if they produce a good "plan", I have this fear that this is going to get bogged down in some really grotesque political battle between Polosi on the left, not wanting to touch the oh so sacred DOE monies and the Republicans on the right not wanting to touch the already ridiculous $700 Billion TARP monies. Finger pointing and political grandstanding will ultimately kill any chances that these companies have on what are essentially just cheap loans from the Govt because they can't get them through traditional banks. Unfortunately I don't really think this has too much to do with "Detroit", and more to do with bipartisan finger pointing and politics as usual, indecisive Washington bull$h!.

I'm feeling slightly pessimistic right now - I think they may be doomed. Not because of anything they did, but because our fearless leaders are really just a bunch of stupid asses.

Who knows - this all just seems like a gigantic circus right now to me.

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Wait though - do they want a "plan" so that they get part of the $700 B TARP money, or a "plan" and then they release the DOE money early? Or do they get both?

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The problem is that any workable "plan" will involve many times the 25 Billion offered and would still involve tens of thousands of lost jobs big three jobs. And if the multiplier that the automakers have been pushing is true, that means perhaps a million jobs lost. Who wants to pay for that?

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