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InvictaMan

Wagoner Drives Volt To Washington

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Gee I only posted this last week that they should use a Cruze/Volt Mule.

Wonder what took them so long to think of it?

THe gears are slow but they are starting to think!

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I question the truth of this. As recently as this morning it was being reported that he was taking a Malibu Hybrid.

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So the guy I spoke to in the Chevy display at NAIAS was right... I was surprised he knew so much, most of the time the people at car shows rarely know the cars they are showing, let along the company they represent.

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Good idea. I would have just drive the Malibu Hybrid and brought a Volt along as well. I wouldn't use a car with a Volt underneath and a Cruze body it would confuse people becuase not everyone understands car like us. Either way driving is a great choice. I do like Rick despite what some folks say.

Edited by gm4life
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i like what wagoner is trying to do, but undermining the companies previous plan to keep all 8 brands alive will be a waste of money in the long run... it is best to keep all alive, and in the upcoming years, GM should strive, as long as the sales begin to pick up, the camaro will do wonders for GM as soon as it hits the showroom, chevy will be selling again, almost like the old days... i think the camaro is GM's silver bullet right now, and i hope it can do for gm what the camaro did for gm in the 60's

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With all due respect, I don't think I've read some more tragically misinformed posts on this topic in a while....

GM just publicly admitted that they need $4billion by the end of this month, and you guys are talking about how good a guy Wagoner is or why they should keep all of their brands?

The short answers are:

RW has overseen the devastation of GM, whether his fault or not, he MUST go. It's simply the price he must pay, even if you believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time for the past 8 yrs.

They can't afford to keep the lights on past Dec 31st and you want to keep money holes like Saab, Saturn or Hummer?

Guys: GM can't even afford the Kool-Aid anymore--better break the habit!

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My suggestion:

Maybe congress would be more likely to give the Det3 the money if RW arrived in the back of a Cadillac Hearse.

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With all due respect, I don't think I've read some more tragically misinformed posts on this topic in a while....

GM just publicly admitted that they need $4billion by the end of this month, and you guys are talking about how good a guy Wagoner is or why they should keep all of their brands?

The short answers are:

RW has overseen the devastation of GM, whether his fault or not, he MUST go. It's simply the price he must pay, even if you believe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time for the past 8 yrs.

They can't afford to keep the lights on past Dec 31st and you want to keep money holes like Saab, Saturn or Hummer?

Guys: GM can't even afford the Kool-Aid anymore--better break the habit!

return to greatness!

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>>"...you want to keep money holes like Saab, Saturn or Hummer?"<<

Repeated posts on this board advocating dropping the dead weight at GM in the form especially of saab, Saturn & Hummer.

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>>"...you want to keep money holes like Saab, Saturn or Hummer?"<<

Repeated posts on this board advocating dropping the dead weight at GM in the form especially of saab, Saturn & Hummer.

And many more indicating that despite the abject distrust of the MSM, the story they are portraying is frighteningly accurate, yet many here cling to notions of a grand comeback.

Why did it take this situation to bring GM to its senses? The denial at the Tubes must literally clog the hallways. But its just as thick here, for many--certainly not all.

(And some of us have been advocating for a wee bit longer)

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GM is scrambling to make business moves they should have been making months and years ago. It's amazing that it took bankruptcy and the prospect of total collapse to get them into action. Rick Wagoner and other execs didn't have the foresight to see this coming before things got this bad? Before it got to the point where they would only have enough cash for a few months? They're reacting now because there's no other option, presenting a hastily prepared plan to stay afloat.

I know nobody could have predicted roller coaster gas prices or the fall of the SUV. But members here have for years commented on GM's tendency to react to market trends rather than take a proactive approach.

Why weren't "dead weight" brands being slashed or sold off before this?

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GM is scrambling to make business moves they should have been making months and years ago. It's amazing that it took bankruptcy and the prospect of total collapse to get them into action. Rick Wagoner and other execs didn't have the foresight to see this coming before things got this bad? Before it got to the point where they would only have enough cash for a few months? They're reacting now because there's no other option, presenting a hastily prepared plan to stay afloat.

I know nobody could have predicted roller coaster gas prices or the fall of the SUV. But members here have for years commented on GM's tendency to react to market trends rather than take a proactive approach.

Why weren't "dead weight" brands being slashed or sold off before this?

It is the fundamental flaw of the human nature, drastic actions are taken only when &#036;h&#33; hits the fan and spreads its aroma around the room.

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Good grief. Some of you guys think that jettisoning brands/dealers is going to be EASY. This is the way democracies and pure capitalism work: by crisis.

No way in hell the UAW would have entertained any sort of compromises 6 months ago. GM was not in this shape six months ago!

If 5 million vehicles hadn't been wiped out of the US market, GM would most likely be on track with its health care spin offs, new vehicle launches, normal dealer attrition, etc. and would have been profitable by next year, like the Board had projected.

To entertain wiping out brands, more lay offs or legions of dealers can only be done under the threat of death - OR ARE YOU GUYS UNAWARE THERE ARE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS SORT OF THING?

This may just be the best thing to happen to GM, frankly, but it is going to be painful.

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Good grief. Some of you guys think that jettisoning brands/dealers is going to be EASY. This is the way democracies and pure capitalism work: by crisis.

No way in hell the UAW would have entertained any sort of compromises 6 months ago. GM was not in this shape six months ago!

If 5 million vehicles hadn't been wiped out of the US market, GM would most likely be on track with its health care spin offs, new vehicle launches, normal dealer attrition, etc. and would have been profitable by next year, like the Board had projected.

To entertain wiping out brands, more lay offs or legions of dealers can only be done under the threat of death - OR ARE YOU GUYS UNAWARE THERE ARE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS SORT OF THING?

This may just be the best thing to happen to GM, frankly, but it is going to be painful.

Pretty much spot-on.

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Generally most people will not let you cut their leg off unless they are going to die otherwise.

The UAW, Dealers and other factors that would fight many of the things that need to happen are now on their knees willing to give to live.

It is oh so easy for all of us to be a CEO behind the keyboard.

Either way driving down in the Malubu was good and driving up in the Volt was good.

The poorest part here is the CEO's [accept Nardelli] are very poor at standing up to the DC creeps.

Rick did right by driving the Volt but he should have called out Dodd and the others on the panel to go out and let me not only tell you what we are doing but show you!

This whole deal reminds me of when they grilled Howard Hughes in DC in the 40's. He was crazy but sucked it up and stood up to them and called them out. Rick does not have to get in their face but he needs to stop the lies where they are given and should call out Senate districts and tell each Senater and Congress man how many jobs and tax dollars he will lose in each district. A little whats in it for them.

I think the autop makers should have give what the people in goverment would lose vs so much what the automakers would gain.

They also should remind them of the cost to meet all the goverment standard in Air quality and fuel economy standard coming up. Not to say they are wrong but just present the cost to revamp to meet them. LEt them know how much money Washington is adding to the cost and losses.

The Automakers are going to get their money as Rep Sharrod Brown has already said they have to bail them out because the banks would lose on the bonds invested. THis was a hint they will bail them out with the bank money to help the banks.

My hunch the money will come form the Bank bail out money and they will say it is to help the banks. The DC folks are just trying to make themselves look good.

Edited by hyperv6
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I consider the above posters fairly astute when it comes to GM history, but utterly blinded by love when it comes to judgments on GM's behavior....

While its obvious that cuts are difficult and, in the short term, expensive, I'll give you a few ways in which the current disaster--could have been minimized--if not avoided:

1. GM has thrown away BILLIONS on distractions for the past 10-20 years--Hughes, EDS, Fiat, Subaru, Isuzu, Saab---all of which would have provided the money to weather this crisis. (For the cost of NOT buying Fiat ($2 billion)--all Saturn dealers could be bought out!

2. GM has never shown a willingness to allow outsiders to render opinions that receive any weight where it counts--in the Boardroom and Exec-Suites. (And don't tell me Lutz---the product was so mediocre, anyone given authority with a brain could have done what he's done). When Ross Perot barked about the waste and stupidity, they paid him (alot) to go away. Jerry York, as recently as 2+ yrs. ago, suggested almost all of the things GM now must do.

3. GM has been losing the ALL-important PR wars for decades---are you telling me they couldn't have hired better? Engaged the same people Toyota does? Done market research that wouldn't simply be short-sighted reflection of internal decisions preordained? I got off the phone with a well-placed GM exec on Friday who couldn't believe how GM's brass didn't anticipate the 1st visit to Congress and how badly that would play with the public. How could they not of considered the possibility?

4. The UAW issues have already been handled---and fairly well, IMO. Det3 are 1.5 yrs. away from real freedom from the shackles of the historical commitments---this indicates to me that the UAW has fairly pragmatic leadership that would have been a partner in working this whole situation a little sooner IF the Det3 were willing to communicate and demonstrate the dire need.

5. If GM wanted to, they could sell Saturn lock, stock and barrel to the Chinese--or perhaps Fiat--or Tata or Mahindra---there are 400 standalone dealers, right? There is no provision in any dealer agreement I know of that requires that GM produce Saturns. I'm sure that Hummer can be given away with a small dowry, with Saab in the same boat. 2 years ago (when this should have happened) there was plenty of credit available for potential buyers of these brands--which brings me to my last point:

6. Ford, a competitor, was far behind GM's restructuring efforts 3 years ago---their product pipeline was thin, they had little spare cash & their crown jewels like Jag, LR & AM were bleeding. Yet, they brought in fresh leadership, borrowed money at historically low interest rates, shed non-core assets and decided to reinvest in product--the roadmap was clear and right in front of GM's face---they did nothing and now they are weeks away from death!

It's sad. And inexcusable.

Edited by enzl
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I don't pretend to understand the Fiat debacle. $2b is not chump change, but I'd bet some pretty bad legal advice had a lot to do with it. I don't see why GM backed out of the deal. GM-DAT has turned out to be a pretty good investment. Why not Fiat, too?

EDS, Hughes and a few other investments resulted in OnStar. As you know full well, finding an exclusive does give a marketing tool. I'm not entirely convinced OnStar is the end-all and be-all, but GM does have stats to prove that OnStar is growing and there are legions of very loyal customers now because of it. The fact that Toyota and others are scrounging to play catch up is a pretty sound indication that GM is on the right track. Most of these investments were made when GM was raking in the billions - is that not the time when companies diversify and strengthen their position? We are playing retro-history again. It's not like GM could just have kept the cash in the bank; the IRS would be only too happy to relieve GM of it.

I agree with you on the PR war. I don't understand how Detroit (and many other American industries, for that matter) have allowed the Japanese to walk into our countries and take over. It says as much about us as a people as it does about Japanese corporate culture. Part of Detroit's past arrogance is really all our shame: Americans (and the West in general) constantly underestimates the strength and tenacity of its 'enemies.'

The Saturn argument is disingenuous at best. In this moment of crisis, it may look like a great idea for GM to 'sell' Saturn to a foreign competitor, but why would you want to make it easy for them to gain a toe-hold in our market? Wal-Mart became #1 in Canada over night by buying up all the bankrupt K-Mart stores. I'd bet Eaton's (once Canada's largest, proudest department store chain) would have loved to prevent that if they could. GM may now have no choice but to shut down Saturn, but in my experience of dealing with lawyer's, I can only imagine the quagmire Gm is facing with the myriad of State laws governing the Saturn dealers in the U.S.

I suspect that Ford's changes (having only 3 brands, for example) have been easier to handle. Mercury is gone in Canada. I've no idea what that cost them, but I see more Ford stores closing around here than GM.

A goodly chunk of GM's problems stem from the fact that they are #1. They always draw the focus of the competition and the ire of the media. Detroit may be an insular place - I can't personally confirm or deny that, but I look at Wagoner's career and I can't think of a better way to promote someone to King other than have that person work their way up and work in many different departments in the kingdom. Mulally may have the advantage of having no allegiances to anyone at Ford; however, I'd still rather have a 'car guy' running a car company than a 'corporate guy.'

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