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cire

Motor Trend: Buick Future Car Plans

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So the only thing I didn't know about was the "super epsilon" Lucerne replacement.

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Super epsilon is probably just long wheel base. They don't need 2 long wheel base sedans and a short wheelbase epsilon sedan. GM's product planning is god awful. Buick should have a Delta II sedan that shares no body panels with the Cruze, priced $23-29,000. Regal as the midsize at $27-33,000 and LaCrosse is a full size car, that should be $31-40k (obviously the 2010 LaCrosse would need upgraded to do that). 3 sedans, small, medium, large, plus the Enclave is all they need.

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Buick planning model expansion

By Drew Johnson

General Motors’ Buick brand has been left to wither on the vine for the past few decades, but the Detroit automaker is planning to give the 101 year old marque new life as it consolidates to just four core brands.

Edited by InvictaMan
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Just checked it, it does, but thanks.

Looks to be much the same info as the Motor Trend article.

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Just checked it, it does, but thanks.

It didn't originally, but I saw you editing the post to fix it, so its fine now.

However, since this is basically the same as the MT article, it's going to be merged with the MT thread.

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"Super Epsilon" huh? I thought the current LWB Ep would be long enough, given CAFE and downsizing and all that.

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Super epsilon is probably just long wheel base. They don't need 2 long wheel base sedans and a short wheelbase epsilon sedan. GM's product planning is god awful.

"appearing for '12 on a new, large "Super" Epsilon front-wheel-drive platform GM Australia is developing to complement its heavy, rear-drive Zeta architecture. Australian Epsilon is wider and longer than the Epsilon II platform."

It's not even done being developed--so how could this be the LWB Epsilon?

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Super epsilon is probably just long wheel base. They don't need 2 long wheel base sedans and a short wheelbase epsilon sedan. GM's product planning is god awful. Buick should have a Delta II sedan that shares no body panels with the Cruze, priced $23-29,000. Regal as the midsize at $27-33,000 and LaCrosse is a full size car, that should be $31-40k (obviously the 2010 LaCrosse would need upgraded to do that). 3 sedans, small, medium, large, plus the Enclave is all they need.

I do agree with your view on Buick's sedan lineup, except the 2010 LaCrosse needs to be priced and equipped to start a few thousand dollars higher ($34,000 - $40,000). However, I do think the brand needs more products than just these three sedans and the Enclave. Buick has a lot of potential, if GM would properly tap into it. The three sedans you mentioned are enough, but there are other categories that Buick could competently handle.

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Does anyone actually know WTF Buick is anymore?

It's as clear as mud from where I sit.

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Does anyone actually know WTF Buick is anymore?

It's as clear as mud from where I sit.

It's the GM car and CUV brand that fits between Chevy and Cadillac. The middle brand.

i.e. Pontiac+Saturn+ old Buick = new Buick?

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These articles make no mention of the BUE, which has been discussed in several articles and was confirmed to me by a couple Buick sales managers. I think this model will be crucial to Buick. An MPV model like the Business Concept will be a unique offering as well for this target. All of this sounds like an amalgamation of several articles that have been floating around lately, and blatantly steps into speculation at the end. Maybe an attempt to keep the momentum going for the LaX intro, but certainly good news for those of us who appreciate the brand's revival.

How many times must the Buick placeholder be hashed.

Chevy= Economical, everyone's cars, trucks, SUVs, CUVs

Buick/GMC= Luxury cars, trucks, SUVs, CUVs

Cadillac= Ultra-Luxury cars, SUVs, CUVs, and I guess still trucks since Hummer is gone.

GM has filled that mid spot with four divisions in the past, really five because Saab was never ultra-luxury. Now that they have trimmed to two it would seem that Buick's place in the family would be even clearer. Buick is the founding brand for GM, seems like true GM enthusiasts would get behind it instead of dissect it and badger it when it finally gets its chance to regain the stature it deserves. GM is banking heavily on this historic brand, because it will eventually fill a lot of shoes. The old arguments about Buick don't flush anymore, Buick is putting out cars that are at Cadillac level now. Maybe we should be bitching about how Cadillac is not living up to its expectations.

Edited by InvictaMan
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well.. it will be lots better when the lucerne gets killed or radically overhauled. then it will truly stand out from the other brands... (if not for the 2.4L in the 2010 laX)

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hilarious that buick is adding models when thy are probably adding as many models as pontiac had cancelled. pontiac buyers would have preferred all these new models say pontiac on them.

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Does anyone actually know WTF Buick is anymore?

It's as clear as mud from where I sit.

What it is right now is the remains of a mismanaged brand with the potential to be something extraordinary if GM would realize and exploit its potential. All the signs that I see at the moment seem to indicate that the "New GM" doesn't know how to manage it any better than the "Old GM".

The 2010 LaCrosse is a wonderful new product that is saddled with a lame name and a stripped down base version that undermines the premium potential of the brand. GM seems content to allow Buick to become a glitzier version of Chevrolet than to allow the brand to reach its true premium potential. The 2010 LaCrosse should be rechristened "LeSabre" for the North American market and be equipped and priced to split the difference between the Acura TL and Lincoln MKS. It should cover the $37,000 to $43,000 price range (which is a little higher than I previously posted).

The Insignia based Regal should have been introduced before the LeSabre as a replacement for the hopelessly outclassed and outdated W-body LaCrosse. The LeSabre could then have been launched as the replacement for the forgetable Lucerne. The Regal should be equipped and priced to split the difference between the Acura TSX and the Lincoln MKZ in the $31,000 to $37,000 price range.

An Astra based Centieme sedan and sports tourer (5-door) should then be priced and equipped to compete with the Audi A3 and Volvo S40, but undercut them in price by staying in the $25,000 to $31,000 price range.

Instead of a giving the brand a profit generating setup like the one I submitted above, GM would rather give Buick a new LaCrosse with a sub-$28,000 stripped down base model that dilutes the brand's image and allows it to hover slightly above Chevrolet. If GM continues with this type of strategy for Buick, then the brand will never be able to provide any of the potential opportunities it possesses for GM.

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These articles make no mention of the BUE, which has been discussed in several articles and was confirmed to me by a couple Buick sales managers. I think this model will be crucial to Buick. An MPV model like the Business Concept will be a unique offering as well for this target. All of this sounds like an amalgamation of several articles that have been floating around lately, and blatantly steps into speculation at the end. Maybe an attempt to keep the momentum going for the LaX intro, but certainly good news for those of us who appreciate the brand's revival.

How many times must the Buick placeholder be hashed.

Chevy= Economical, everyone's cars, trucks, SUVs, CUVs

Buick/GMC= Luxury cars, trucks, SUVs, CUVs

Cadillac= Ultra-Luxury cars, SUVs, CUVs, and I guess still trucks since Hummer is gone.

GM has filled that mid spot with four divisions in the past, really five because Saab was never ultra-luxury. Now that they have trimmed to two it would seem that Buick's place in the family would be even clearer. Buick is the founding brand for GM, seems like true GM enthusiasts would get behind it instead of dissect it and badger it when it finally gets its chance to regain the stature it deserves. GM is banking heavily on this historic brand, because it will eventually fill a lot of shoes. The old arguments about Buick don't flush anymore, Buick is putting out cars that are at Cadillac level now. Maybe we should be bitching about how Cadillac is not living up to its expectations.

I agree except that I think GM is undermining the brand's image and perception as a premium brand by giving it stripped down base models. No Buick product should ever come equipped without alloy wheels and foglights as standard equipment. The new LaCrosse (which should have been named something else for North America) should base in the mid to upper $30,000 range.

I share your passion for the Buick brand, but I still don't think GM "gets it" or knows how to exploit the brand so that it can be relevant and successful as well as generate profits for the corporation. I share the same opinion about Cadillac; another potential goldmine for GM that gets derailed and undermined by GM's mismanagement and overall incompetence.

Edited by cire
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Buick doesn't have enough brand image to sell luxury cars, and the 2010 LaCrosse isn't nearly nice enough to sell in the high 30s. It would need the CTS interior or better to get mid to high $30s because it's front drive and can't offer any performance advantage over a Camry/Accord/Malibu. Buick needs to focus on selling dressed up Chevys for $25-35k, although a new Impala on Epsilon2 could easily replace the 2010 LaCrosse and then Buick isn't really needed. The Avalon/Azera/Lucerne segment is rapidly dying, no one wants big front drivers.

Perhaps the best thing would be for Buick to make 3 sedans (small, medium, large) all priced the same at $27-35k. Then the old geezers that want their slush mobile are happy, and the younger people that want a lot of luxury in a small package have something also. But GM would never put all the available equipment on a LaCrosse CXS into a Delta II Buick.

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Are you serious? You're asking for Buick to be what it was in 1992. I'd rather every Buick dealership simultaneously explode.

Buick's biggest problem, from the product end of things, is Caddy's apparent move downscale. Since Caddy has switched back to making FWD cars - "for better fuel economy" :rolleyes: - there will inevitably be some overlap with Buick.

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OK, let me ask the question in a different way.

What makes a given car a Buick?

What is compelling about the brand?

What is unique, or at least, interesting?

In short, why a Buick?

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Buick ain't luxury. Cadillac is luxury. There's no room for two luxury brands within GM.

Buick should be more premium, more developed versions of Chevy, or in other words, Opel. Buick's product plans seem clear from spy photos, and it's Astra, Insignia, and Antara.

Personally, I'm a fan of naming the Astra "Invicta", to go with "Insignia." The Antara (i.e., VUE Hybrid) can be "Electra", to go with "Enclave." All four models would come loaded with few options, like Acura does with their cars. The LaCrosse will remain the old geezer's Buick to replace the Lucerne.

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OK, let me ask the question in a different way.

What makes a given car a Buick?

What is compelling about the brand?

What is unique, or at least, interesting?

In short, why a Buick?

This isn't keeping with tradition, but IMO Buick can reinvent itself as a distinct brand within the GM family by offering: dynamic design, engaging performance, more exclusivity and higher quality than the common Chevrolet or Toyota. I'm not really into sweepspears, ventiports, or chrome, but personally I find Buick having the most potential for appeal, since I'm not a fan of the new Daewoolets and Saturn and Pontiac are gone.

Here's are some Buicks I would be interested in...

2009_04_09_opel_astra_2010_leaked_1.jpg

Buick Invicta 1.4T - $19K, fully loaded

Buick Invicta 2.0T - $22K, fully loaded

insignia.jpg

Buick Insignia 2.0T - $27K, fully-loaded

Pretty much the Acura model - no base models to cheapen their image, but not extravagant like Caddy.

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OK, let me ask the question in a different way.

What makes a given car a Buick?

What is compelling about the brand?

What is unique, or at least, interesting?

In short, why a Buick?

Exterior and interior styling that's bold and eye catching, but warmer and more sensuous than, say, Cadillac or BMW.

Unrivaled comfort in the cabin

Precision and refinement

Plenty of power without being billed as a "performance" car

Handling that's crisp but still plays second fiddle to comfort in ads

Basically, I see Buick as GM's "sleeper" division. The new LaCrosse, Riviera concept, the Enclave, and the Velite (which is still a good looking car six years later) represent everything Buick needs to be. I'm not at all a fan of GM abandoning distinctly Buick designs in favor of rebadged Opels.

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