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8 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

The bottom line?? Instead of making a projected $89 billion in said quarter, Apple 'shockingly' only made $84 billion.

My dad always hated Wallstreet type financial statements...

That example of not making 89 billion but 84 billion, well,  he was always aware of that  type of greed and mocked it endlessly. 

Thanx Balthy for pointing that out. 

It sickens me that so many of us do not see the blatant greed...

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8 hours ago, balthazar said:

Just read a Yahoo finance op-ed. Headline is "Apple just confirmed the stock market's biggest fear".

The bottom line?? Instead of making a projected $89 billion in said quarter, Apple 'shockingly' only made $84 billion.

1

That isn't what is causing the fall.  It is that China's economy is pumping the brakes right now, but it is rapidly falling iPhone sales that are one of the canaries in the coal mine.  Auto sales have been falling there for months. 

The reaction of the stock market has less to do with Apple profits and more to do with fears on the global economy.   We're not even into a global recession yet, so expect stocks to fall a lot further... We could be back to the 19,827 that Obama left us within a few months. 

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It's not about greed, 442. I mean; I guess Apple could, conceivably, lower all their prices and only make a billion/quarter, but what individual or entity ever does that? Would it make anyone 'feel better' if Apple only made a billion/quarter, or would that then spark comment it would be better at 1 million? Some folk would like major corporations to merely break even, I'll bet.

A commodity/product company cannot juggle their prices in order to maintain a set profit margin- it just would not work. Consumers need to 'not question' the price- once a commodity is established viably, a sustainable volume of consumers will buy regardless of that price. Once the price is in regular flux, so will sales be. Incentives are a minor market nudge.

The issue as I see it is the frothing panic when a company/the economy ticks off by 5%. So much of the market looks thru a 24-hour window instead of long-term. It becomes a self-fufilling prophecy to a large degree- a week or a month down only effects the day traders, but they scream the loudest, and the news cycles pumps up the drama 10-fold because; viewers.

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Posted (edited)

I agree wholeheartedly on your above post Balthy.

What I was meaning about greed was that the stock market evaluates how well a company does by future predictions. 

There is an old proverb that says "dont count your chickens before they hatch" yet in today's world, which in fact is a corporate world, wealth is being built (or wealth is being lost, but somebody does in fact still manage to pocket millions off the backs of the poor old worker.) by counting the chickens before they hatch.

So, the people that trade the stocks, got a "scare" so, decided to sell off their shares, at a lower price??? Just because of a 5 billion dollar difference?

I know! I Know!

5 billion dollars is a  lot of coin for Apple CEOs that they have less to buy expensive personal toys in their already huge stable of expensive toys. 

The thing is...how much money did Apple rake in the year before?  And the year before that?  And the year before that?  and the year before that?

The other thing is...how much money (counting chickens, but still relevant without the fear mongering...) will Apple make next year, and the year after that? And the year after that? 

This is all fine when big corporations do fail because the CEOs running this particular corporation failed to get within the times or had piss poor management.  Sears comes to mind. But...all those billions made by Sears over the 100 plus years of their existence is GONE...

If a corporation is like a person in a legal sense for tax purposes and the like, to shelter CEOs and share holders and the like, well, humans pass on their wealth for generations and humans create a dynasty for their future generations. 

Yet corporations, do have a war chest, when they do go bankrupt, that war chest somehow disappears. It goes somewhere, but it definitely does not go to the factory workers and salespeople that have given their entire lives. Their pension funds also in some cases disappear also. 

So yeah. That is what I meant by greed.

5 billion dollars less than predicted.  Boo hoo hoo for the CEOs and the top tier share holders that will pocket 5 billion dollars less for XMAS this year, because we sure as hell know that Apple factory workers in China or Apple sales people in NYC Apple Stores woundnt have never gotten a dime regardless of a 89 billion dollar year or an 84 billion dollar year...

Yet us as ravenous consumers that we are, we do not even blink an eye in giving our hard earned money to all corporations year after year after year while they take our billions and run away with it.  We do not question why we are ravenous consumerism  when we throw out are 2 year old  500 dollar iPhone  that we bough or leased 2 years ago, that we go and fork over another 500-600-1000 dollar iPhone just because its the new one, and we do not question why we do this and we forget that our 2 year old iPhone is still good to use...

We buy into their advertising brainwashing lingo to keep on buying and we get scared just because they made 5 billion dollars less than predicted...

I do agree though, when their magical advertising bullshyte ceases to brainwash and another cutesy company takes over, then yeah, the scare is real at that point in time...but do not forget, the people that run these billion dollar corporations have their dynasty money under their mattresses, in off shore tax haven bank accounts, etc...

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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5 hours ago, daves87rs said:

It’s funny you mention the correction....as I believe it will be quite nasty.  So GM continuing to keep those “pricey” things going (trucks and SUVs) is going to come back and bite them hard. People simply are not going to be able to afford them....so people are going to look for a a cheaper ride, cheap gas prices or not....

GM really does need to think this out better-while automation is coming, they might want to at least keep the lights on in some plants for different products (and EVs as well)

There is a reason why other automakers are not dumping cars in a hurry like GM and Ford....While folks may not be looking at a Civic now, it will for sure get a look when money is much tighter and gas prices go up...

Moving and keeping some the product around (Cruze, Volt) might be a better idea in the long run......

I suspect GM will be showcasing their new EV's that will fill in that void of 20 to 40K priced rides.

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4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I suspect GM will be showcasing their new EV's that will fill in that void of 20 to 40K priced rides.

GM will be showcasing a bunch of crossovers.  If one of those crossovers is an EV, that is completely incidental.

 

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2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

GM will be showcasing a bunch of crossovers.  If one of those crossovers is an EV, that is completely incidental.

Much appreciated and I should temper the EV with lower cost CUVs that are also ICE to fill in the price point of the lower end compared to higher end trucks or SUVs.

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8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, citing CNN as a spot on source... They've never been biased. 

It's an Op Ed.  Argue why the opinion is wrong instead of just dismissing it because it is an opinion.  She makes some good points in the article.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

...we sure as hell know that Apple factory workers in China or Apple sales people in NYC Apple Stores woundnt have never gotten a dime regardless of a 89 billion dollar year or an 84 billion dollar year...

In fact, Apple gifted $2500 of stock to all of their 120,000 employees in Jan of 2018. That would have been right about 16 shares, which if the employee sold it at the peak during the next 12 months, they would have seen the $2500 plus another $1100- or a $3600 bonus.  I can't say/don't know if that 120K figure includes whatever sweatshop Chinese labor Apple contracts or not, but even at face value that was a $300,000,000 disbursement. Yes- nothing compared to the $59 billion 2018 net income , but I'm sure greatly appreciated by all who received it.

Apple also upped their stock dividend payout in 2018 by 10% to a total disbursement of $13 billion annually, the largest dividend outlay in the world.

Edited by balthazar

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Uhhhh why would I even spend time reading a source that's consistently proven to be extremely biased and full of crap?  

If somebody posted some Fox News BS I wouldn't expect you to read it just to dismiss it. It's already BS. 

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Just now, ccap41 said:

Uhhhh why would I even spend time reading a source that's consistently proven to be extremely biased and full of crap?  

If somebody posted some Fox News BS I wouldn't expect you to read it just to dismiss it. It's already BS. 

I'd read either one with a critical eye.  Dismissing the source is lazy unless it is some extremist website.  In this case, the author doesn't even work for CNN, but for Invesco, a major investment firm. CNN is just where the story is published. 

Again, I read this particular article... and while I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the overall conclusion, the author does make some good points that really can't be disputed (President of China is president for life, can play the long game. China controls the rare-earth mineral market, can cut off US buyers. Quotes from CEO of Alcoa saying that tariffs are hurting profitability. China can depreciate the yuan to counteract the tariffs. China can manipulate the sale of US debt.)

I wonder where you do get your news if you think both CNN and Fox are BS.

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While pertinent to the discussion, hard facts aren't really 'points' in that they are non-variable, IE; the 'president for life' fact.

The article does ignore the very real costs to China on some of those tactics, something China has been reluctant to embrace as SOP. Other points are possibly overstated, such as monopoly prosecution within China (when most American companies there are partnered with Chinese entities).

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2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

While pertinent to the discussion, hard facts aren't really 'points' in that they are non-variable, IE; the 'president for life' fact.

The article does ignore the very real costs to China on some of those tactics, something China has been reluctant to embrace as SOP. Other points are possibly overstated, such as monopoly prosecution within China (when most American companies there are partnered with Chinese entities).

That's why I didn't take a position on the article as a whole.... only that some very good points were made.   China is taking other countermeasures though. 

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20 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Tesla’s Gigafactory is near Reno, could be land speculation related to that.  Or people working there or moving there from the more expensive SF Bay Area...

I think Tesla is east of Reno, in some remote area along I-80.  (I-80 interestingly goes from the Bay Bridge (CA) to the George Washington Bridge (NJ-NY).)

There have indeed been waves of Northern Californians "going up the hill" and moving there.  There are some Southern Californians, but not many.  It's not for everybody.  It's more akin to a Mountain West sort of place, which looks more like Boise or Salt Lake City, than it is a Pacific Rim sort of place.

People also move there because there is no state income tax.  Nevada is one of about seven states that offer that perk.  That list also includes WA, TX, and FL.  For some of these rich equity refugees in top tax brackets in CA, they can live on Lake Tahoe's NV shore, which is nicer than the CA shore, and jet around here and there when they want to get away.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I think Tesla is east of Reno, in some remote area along I-80.  (I-80 interestingly goes from the Bay Bridge (CA) to the George Washington Bridge (NJ-NY).)

There have indeed been waves of Northern Californians "going up the hill" and moving there.  There are some Southern Californians, but not many.  It's not for everybody.  It's more akin to a Mountain West sort of place, which looks more like Boise or Salt Lake City, than it is a Pacific Rim sort of place.

People also move there because there is no state income tax.  Nevada is one of about seven states that offer that perk.  That list also includes WA, TX, and FL.  For some of these rich equity refugees in top tax brackets in CA, they can live on Lake Tahoe's NV shore, which is nicer than the CA shore, and jet around here and there when they want to get away.

I drove from Reno to Denver once in a rental Impala..the stretch from Reno to Salt Lake City is pretty ugly...  just a lot of barren nothingness.   Gigafactory 1 is near Clark, NV about 17 miles east of Reno in the void.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1

Edited by Robert Hall
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3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, citing CNN as a spot on source... They've never been biased. 

Everyone liberal or conservative is biased, but as an editorial, this educated Market strategist investment person makes some very valid points. Ignore the CNN name and read what this investment advisor is stating about business. Some very valid points.

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I would prefer not to give CNN my advertisement "click". They, and all other extremely biased news outlets. can suck it. If that article is posted somewhere outside of their site, I'll give it a read. 

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19 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I would prefer not to give CNN my advertisement "click". They, and all other extremely biased news outlets. can suck it. If that article is posted somewhere outside of their site, I'll give it a read. 

Not the exact same editorial as she wrote it under contract to CNN as an outside 3rd party view, but she does say some of the same things on BizJournal.

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/12/03/invesco-executive-warns-about-major-market-sell.html

Some of the same points in the editorial on CNN that are not covered on the Biz Journal she does cover in her blog at Invesco.

https://www.blog.invesco.us.com/five-issues-rattling-global-markets/

Her full blog at Invesco is here with some excellent insight on the global economy.

https://www.blog.invesco.us.com/author/kristinahooper/ 

She also touches on them in her interview on CNBC.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/07/19/kristina-hooper-talks-about-market-outlooks.html

She covers some similar points on this interview.

https://www.businessinsider.com/interview-with-kristina-hooper-chief-investment-strategist-at-invesco-2017-11

SO Asking since you Ignored Drew's question, WHAT News Sources do you think are more worthy than keeping an open mind and reviewing both liberal and Conservative sites?

CNN has been no different than Fox news. Both Bias, Both having stretched the truth and taken their own viewpoints side. Yet I posted an editorial that CNN asked a NON-News person to give their professional input on and a number of points in it are very accurate about the current state this planet finds it in.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

If that article is posted somewhere outside of their site, I'll give it a read.

I do not have a horse in this race. Just asking a very honest and legit question.   AND...Im not only just asking  CCAP, but ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY that reads this post of mine.  

1. What difference does it make where you read this article?   Fox News or CNN...  If the article is indeed biased free. Or if it leans slightly to the right or left. I said slightly leaning, not blatant #fakenews...

And another honest and legit question.

 2. How does one know how the article leans if one does not read it?

3. How does one know what really is the truth if one avoids "the other side's" news outlet?   Especially if one ONLY keeps reading and engaging in his political leanings news outlets...

4. How does one form an informed and non-biased opinion if one ONLY listens to news outlets that are the same as his political leanings just keeps on high fivin' what obviously one WANTS to hear all the time?

5. And finally, last question. What the phoque is this right and left, democratic and republican, liberal and conservative bullshyte I keep on hearing about? 

Life is NOT JUST  about being left or right and all that bullshyte...Life aint black or white...life is a whole bunch of colours actually...and one need not only choose one phoquing colour.  The beauty of life is the phoquing freedom to EXPERIENCE ALL THE PHOQUING colours there are!!!

I find it ridiculous all the accusations and the mud slinging  thrown around in American politics both by the leaders of your country and the voting public, yet NOBODY is actually LISTENING,  DEBATING, and actually COMPROMISING and COMING TO A CONCLUSION and a SOLUTION...

Its only about insulting the other side, trying to discredit the other side.  Arguments are just semantic driven just to discredit on technicalities and more insults are thrown yet NOBODY has a bloody solution for ANYTHING...

Its sad really...

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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Unauthorized use of boldface type in a post is gonna cost ya

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, balthazar said:

In fact, Apple gifted $2500 of stock to all of their 120,000 employees in Jan of 2018. That would have been right about 16 shares, which if the employee sold it at the peak during the next 12 months, they would have seen the $2500 plus another $1100- or a $3600 bonus.  I can't say/don't know if that 120K figure includes whatever sweatshop Chinese labor Apple contracts or not, but even at face value that was a $300,000,000 disbursement. Yes- nothing compared to the $59 billion 2018 net income , but I'm sure greatly appreciated by all who received it.

Apple also upped their stock dividend payout in 2018 by 10% to a total disbursement of $13 billion annually, the largest dividend outlay in the world.

Well...that is great!!!

Still does not change the fact that counting chickens before they hatch and the powers that be that regulate stock market prices is just that...speculation on nothing and the price goes up or down...yet Apple as of now is of no danger in folding....not with an 84 billion dollar year that they had.

Correction in the stock price you say? 

What correction?  Are we supposed to forget that Apple has been making tons of billions of dollars the past decade?   

How many billions did Apple make so far in the last 5 years (never you mind the last decade) that a mere 5 billion less for one year shock anybody?  That 5 billion is pocket change... and keep in mind that it is not even a loss. Its just that they made 5 billion less than what the powers that be PREDICTED that they would make...and the stock prices go up and down just like that...

Like I said, CEOs and top tier share holders counted 5 billion chickens too many for whatever King Midas reason they saw that many chickes and now they have to make do with only 84 rather than 89...

Anyhoo...like I said...greed. 

And yeah, the most given by any other company...Ill just say, not nearly enough.  For all of these corporations.  They should be contributing more to our society with all those billions they make year after year after year....  

  Ill be careful as to not make myself look like a commie...

10 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Unauthorized use of boldface type in a post is gonna cost ya

How much?

5 billion? 

The check is in the mail....

Edited by oldshurst442
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