Cadillac News: Cadillac Lyriq Gives Us Our First Peek Into GM's Electric Dreams

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But the base Model X has 350 miles.  And the Lyric is not a Tesla.  Tesla is the on fire brand, it represents the future.  Cadillac is the past and has an image problem.  

(Looks at the delayed EQS lineup and thinks that you forgot to mention Benz in that statement) 

[surreal1272]

And yet another article about Cadillac where the entire thread is about basically debunking SMKs endless trolling and lies. 
 

Ans this is why is I only visit sparingly anymore. 

[David]

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And yet another article about Cadillac where the entire thread is about basically debunking SMKs endless trolling and lies. 
 

Ans this is why is I only visit sparingly anymore. 

It is good to see you back, since the last time you visited, this is the first in a while that SMK has tried to move a thread about a product into all about MB crap again.

I hope to see you pop in and comment on other threads. Like what I am seeing for Hummer by GMC of the truck and SUV so far. Comment there please on what you think about those auto's.

Glad to see you pop in here to comment on the LYRIQ.

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, David said:

Wrong, reviewing multiple auto news sites, they all seem to have one consistent thing in common. S-Class sedan is set to make an appearance in September 2020 with on sale date as a 2021 starting Jan 2021 due to the Pandemic.

This is the real clear NOTE to pay attention too:

Christoph Starzynski, the EQS chief engineer, says it already feels like an S-Class and that the team is hitting its targets. When will the EQS go into production? Starzynski said it will probably be "two more years", which means that it may only arrive as a 2023 model and give the all-new S-Class plenty of time to lay the foundation for the next generation of Mercedes flagship luxury sedans.

That means at the Earliest we will see this out in the 2022 calendar year here in the US. Considering how much both Mercedes-Benz and BMW have launched their EV's as a Global auto to then state it will be China First, Europe and then the US. Battery production delays, now teaming up with CATL so that they have Production close to MB manufacturing, yet that plant is only in construction phase now with production to start at the end of 2021. 

Good information, originally the EQS was supposed to be a 2022 model, they had the concept and drivable prototype last year.  But I'd imagine the pandemic has slowed and and EV demand still isn't that high.  Although they need the EQS because of what Tesla is going.  And the EQE sedan and the SUVs too.

My guess is the S-class or E-class will clobber the EV's in sales for about 5 years, maybe closer to 2030 all these things just become electric and that is just the normal.

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, David said:

Why should they cut models when you have always stated they are the most profitable auto company around and will always have the most diverse portfolio. That would imply they should have no problem continuing to sell non-profitable cars.

They have the most diverse portfolio still, and are #1 selling luxury car brand in 2020 so far.  They are cutting models that don't sell, and they have like 50 models, cutting 7 is not big deal.   Keep in mind they are also adding EQ C, EQ S, EQ A, EQ B, which is 4 all new models.  Rumor is they are adding CLE coupe/convertible, so they are adding 6 models probably over the next 2-3 years.

Cadillac has cut 6 of the 7 models they had in 2016.  No one is flipping out about them killing 6/7ths of their lineup in 4 years, in fact people applaud it.

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, David said:

This is an interesting read on why the LYRIQ is NOT for the US market. We might never actually get it since there is no confirmed production in the US, only China. The US seems destined to get the Hummer by GMC brand for sure which is not slated for China.

This brings up an Interesting thought, if LYRIQ is not for the US, but really only China where Cadillac has a strong growth and GMC does not exist, Could GMC become the big luxury brand in the US as Cadillac goes away to China only?

Could we see a Chevrolet / Buick / GMC future of the US?

One would hope that Cadillac would become the true Luxury only brand it once was and that anything below the $60 to $70 K level is left to Buick/GMC dealerships.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/35466/the-cadillac-lyriq-leads-gms-electric-luxury-future-but-its-not-really-for-you

Can't get rid of Cadillac in the USA.  If anything you would make Buick China only because most the small Buick SUVs overlap Chevy/GMC products or could be pushed to GMC like an Encore or Envision.  And Cadillac could do an XT3 SUV as an entry point in what was Buick pricing.  

[balthazar]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac has cut 6 of the 7 models they had in 2016.  No one is flipping out about them killing 6/7ths of their lineup in 4 years, in fact people applaud it.

You applauded it too. 'Build more CUV/SUVs!' you demanded.
The 'applause' is supplying the market with the SUVs they demand.

Cadillac had 7 models in '16, and they have 6 in '20.

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And Cadillac could do an XT3 SUV as an entry point in what was Buick pricing.  

Except that would be stupid. But there you go again applauding Cadillac building more SUVs. You must luvluvluv the Lyriq; gonna turn the segment on it's ear if that variant/trim is offered.

[smk4565]

SUV’s are what sell sadly.  And once the money crunch hits all car makers they’ll give up on low volume sports cars to throw more SUVs at the market.  High demand for the Bronco makes me think there is room for luxury off roaders, G-Wagen and Range Rover and LR Defender are all there are.

[balthazar]

Being that those 3 mentioned above never go off-road, that's far from 'all there are'.

[smk4565]

Cadillac needs a roomy mid-size sedan, their current sedans are too small inside.  With an EV they could get CT6 interior space in the footprint of a CT4 or CT5.  And I assume a big rear drive EV sedan is coming.
 

After Lyriq they need a smaller EV crossover, Escalade next gen should go EV only which would be in the 2027 timeframe so pretty far out there.  In the meantime they should do a luxury off roader or lifestyle type vehicle.  Cadillacs sell in the Midwest and in Texas where that sort of product works.

[David]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac needs a roomy mid-size sedan, their current sedans are too small inside.  With an EV they could get CT6 interior space in the footprint of a CT4 or CT5.  And I assume a big rear drive EV sedan is coming.
 

After Lyriq they need a smaller EV crossover, Escalade next gen should go EV only which would be in the 2027 timeframe so pretty far out there.  In the meantime they should do a luxury off roader or lifestyle type vehicle.  Cadillacs sell in the Midwest and in Texas where that sort of product works.

Hummer by GMC is that Luxury off-road product.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

Hummer by GMC is that Luxury off-road product.

You can always go higher.  I can't see any GMC being $100k, so there is plenty of room for a Cadillac over top of the Hummer.

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 I can't see any GMC being $100k,

why?

[balthazar]

Silverado is already reaching into the mid $80K range. Sierra Denali is probably possible to bridge $90K. 'Why not'? Because trucks are better built, last longer and are far more versatile than sedan 'counterparts', with hearly as many technological features. Frankly, other than 'exotic' sports cars, trucks should already be higher priced than sedans based on that alone.

New Tahoe is quieter at 70 MPH cruising than a mercedes s-class, and also out-brakes it 70-0 by 6 feet.

Edited August 11, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

why?

Because they never sold anything at that price before, even a Yukon Denali is $72k starting and that is pretty well equipped as is.  

Also Cadillac hasn't been successful with a $100k product before, so I don't see how a brand below Cadillac can pull it off. 

[oldshurst442]

 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Silverado is already reaching into the mid $80K range. Sierra Denali is probably possible to bridge $90K. 'Why not'? Because trucks are better built, last longer and are far more versatile than sedan 'counterparts', with hearly as many technological features. Frankly, other than 'exotic' sports cars, trucks should already be higher priced than sedans based on that alone.

Sierra Denali starts at $55k.  Maybe a 3500 dually diesel gets up to higher price.

I am talking a vehicle with a base of $100k, GMC could never do that.  

And 3500 spec trucks with a diesel are not really a good comparison due to the commercial nature.  I am talking passenger cars/suvs.  Because there are Freightliner M2 106's selling for $150k and I wouldn't call that a luxury product, it is a commercial vehicle.  

If the Hummer is $100k and the Bronco is $30-50k, I can tell you right now the Hummer will last about 3 model years and be gone as fast as the H3T was.

[balthazar]

We've discussed this before- base MSRP is irrevelant.
No one buys vehicles at the base, no-options status, and vehicles starting around $100K have short option lists.

A '20 Sierra Denali HD 3500 starts at $76K. Add ONE option, the Duramax, and you're already at $86K. But even at this price level, there are SO many equipment & options you can add, way more than most sedans ever have, it's ridiculous.

 

[smk4565]

39 minutes ago, balthazar said:

We've discussed this before- base MSRP is irrevelant.
No one buys vehicles at the base, no-options status, and vehicles starting around $100K have short option lists.

A '20 Sierra Denali HD 3500 starts at $76K. Add ONE option, the Duramax, and you're already at $86K. But even at this price level, there are SO many equipment & options you can add, way more than most sedans ever have, it's ridiculous.

 

But GM/Cadillac don't have anything in the $100-200k range, and north of $200k the volume is probably too low to make it worth their while to do given the volumes they need on cars.

And if Chevrolet has the best sports cars at GM, GMC has the best off roader, what does Cadillac have?  The problem with Cadillac is they don't even have the best stuff at GM, let alone compared to Tesla, Mercedes or Porsche or Lexus.  Taking Chevy SUVs and plussing them 20% doesn't make for a desirable brand and that is where Cadillac is right now.

[David]

I see no reason that GMC cannot handle a $100,000 truck or SUV.

They are already near that.

[smk4565]

$81 is still far from $100k.  And even if a loaded GMC Hummer is $100k, a G-wagen starts at $130k and goes to $200k.  Why can't there be a Cadillac that starts at $130k or $150k?  

And if Cadillac isn't cranking out cars left and right at $75-100k, which they aren't, I don't know why you would try to go there with a GMC SUV. 

The GMC Hummer will fail hard if it is double the price of a Bronco which is a cool looking vehicle with a load of appeal.  And GMC can try to go head to head with the Cybertruck if they want, but the Tesla fan base is near impossible to crack.  And Elon Musk by himself is worth more than Ford and GM combined.  

 

[balthazar]

Oh, now it's "$200K" or "$150K", when 12 seconds ago it was "$100K".

Typical.

- - - - -
Hummer has as good a chance as any luxury EV- the 11,500 TRQ is going to draw a segment of the demographic like flies. Meanwhile, mercedes is cutting employees, budgets and models, and delaying their too-late response to Tesla. No buzz, no interest, yet another alpha-numeric lost in a catalog of 84 77 models.

29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

$81 is still far from $100k.

Pickin' and choosin'.
What about the 1-option truck that stickers for $86K I mentioned 3 posts above yours?  Is $86K still "far" from $100K? OK, add 3 or 4 more options. There's your backyard BBQ bragging point; have another bratwurst and go sit over on the other side of the yard.

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

yet another alpha-numeric lost in a catalog of 84 77 models.

And more than half of those are econo-shyte boxes.  You know...with all those shytty versions of the same phoquing car on the same phoquing platform...   To which MORE models will be cut...as I said...Mercedes (and BMW) like to produce different versions of the same car, branding it a different model.  And we all know these never had any relevant sales to begin with.  And so...every useless model will get canceled.  

Ive said this before.  I wont be surprised if Mercedes actually ends up with only a dozen vehicles, yes 10-13 models, 3/4 of those CUVs and the E Class COMPLETELY GONE from  Canadian and American shores... 

 

[David]

Back on the Cadillac EV discussion, they have confirmed an Escalade EV. 

• Cadillac LYRIQ EV
• Cadillac Escalade EV

One has to wonder what they will call all the other CUV/Cars for the full EV portfolio. I doubt they will stick with CT and XT.

[smk4565]

30 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

And more than half of those are econo-shyte boxes.  You know...with all those shytty versions of the same phoquing car on the same phoquing platform...   To which MORE models will be cut...as I said...Mercedes (and BMW) like to produce different versions of the same car, branding it a different model.  And we all know these never had any relevant sales to begin with.  And so...every useless model will get canceled.  

Ive said this before.  I wont be surprised if Mercedes actually ends up with only a dozen vehicles, yes 10-13 models, 3/4 of those CUVs and the E Class COMPLETELY GONE from  Canadian and American shores... 

 

All automakers platform share.  Anyone that doesn't is a moron at business.   And really Mercedes is cutting 6 body styles off existing models, but they added an all new GLB, are adding all new EQC, EQS, EQE, etc, so they are making new stuff.  They need money to go after Tesla, and they don't need 6 or 7 convertibles in their line up when very few people buy enthusiast cars.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by smk4565

[David]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All automakers platform share.  Anyone that doesn't is a moron at business.   And really Mercedes is cutting 6 body styles off existing models, but they added an all new GLB, are adding all new EQC, EQS, EQE, etc, so they are making new stuff.  They need money to go after Tesla, and they don't need 6 or 7 convertibles in their line up when very few people buy enthusiast cars.  

EQC, EQS, are as much vaporware as the LYRIQ at this point. The EQE has not been seen or even probably started to be designed yet since they have had to delay their current 2 EV's.

GLB is a cheap update of an existing model. They still cut 7 models from their lineup. They have clearly stated more cuts are coming. The days of enthusiast auto's and niche builds are over in this current pandemic global business world.

MB, the Toyota/Chevrolet of Germany is now hurting and has done what the others did, overextend in building niche auto's that no longer can be supported by current sales. 

MB will be shrinking the portfolio considerable over the next 18 - 24 months.

[smk4565]

11 minutes ago, David said:

Back on the Cadillac EV discussion, they have confirmed an Escalade EV. 

• Cadillac LYRIQ EV
• Cadillac Escalade EV

One has to wonder what they will call all the other CUV/Cars for the full EV portfolio. I doubt they will stick with CT and XT.

They said all Cadillacs will be EV eventually and all EV Cadillac's will have an "iq" name, so I guess CT, XT will all be replaced.  Not sure how they fit Escalade in that.  Which is why these naming conventions are dumb and they should go back to names.   Eldorado sounds a hell of a lot better tan Soniq, or Boutiq or Magnifiq, or whatever lame name they give to the electric sedan they make.  

Also this Cadillac trying to be urban and techy to appeal to millennials on the coasts or to build Nurburring corner carvers isn't working.  Americans who buy Cadillacs want roomy cars, Cadillac built cramped interior ATS and CTS and scared them off, and they attracted zero German car snobs in the process.  Roomy, comfortable ride, quiet, torquey should be the pillars of Cadillac.  

[David]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

They said all Cadillacs will be EV eventually and all EV Cadillac's will have an "iq" name, so I guess CT, XT will all be replaced.  Not sure how they fit Escalade in that.  Which is why these naming conventions are dumb and they should go back to names.   Eldorado sounds a hell of a lot better tan Soniq, or Boutiq or Magnifiq, or whatever lame name they give to the electric sedan they make.  

Also this Cadillac trying to be urban and techy to appeal to millennials on the coasts or to build Nurburring corner carvers isn't working.  Americans who buy Cadillacs want roomy cars, Cadillac built cramped interior ATS and CTS and scared them off, and they attracted zero German car snobs in the process.  Roomy, comfortable ride, quiet, torquey should be the pillars of Cadillac.  

Yet not too long ago you were preaching how everyone wanted a Nuremburg carving auto. Seems you flip flop as bad as a politician working to keep their job.

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

All automakers platform share.  Anyone that doesn't is a moron at business.

I aint talking about that kind...

But...like @David  said...back to CADILLAC and the LYRIQ.

No need to talk about Mercedes.  

 

[smk4565]

2 minutes ago, David said:

EQC, EQS, are as much vaporware as the LYRIQ at this point. The EQE has not been seen or even probably started to be designed yet since they have had to delay their current 2 EV's.

GLB is a cheap update of an existing model. They still cut 7 models from their lineup. They have clearly stated more cuts are coming. The days of enthusiast auto's and niche builds are over in this current pandemic global business world.

MB, the Toyota/Chevrolet of Germany is now hurting and has done what the others did, overextend in building niche auto's that no longer can be supported by current sales. 

MB will be shrinking the portfolio considerable over the next 18 - 24 months.

Cadillac cut ELR, XTS, ATS, CTS, XTS, SRX and CT6 from their lineup over a 4 year period.  That is 7 model lines and they are still in business.  I think Mercedes will survive cutting SLC and coupe/convertible  body styles from the C/E/S class.  Especially with rumor of a CLE coupe/convertible coming to back fill those cuts. 

And they are cutting cars that don't sell, and replacing them with things like GLB that will sell more units by itself than the 7 that got cut.  That is a smart move and they are building what the market buys, which is why first half of 20201 they are #1 selling luxury brand.  If Mercedes is hurting at #1, I'd hate to be the guys in 5th or 6th place.

[smk4565]

16 minutes ago, David said:

Yet not too long ago you were preaching how everyone wanted a Nuremburg carving auto. Seems you flip flop as bad as a politician working to keep their job.

Cadillac tried that strategy 15 years ago and it failed and they keep going for it and kept failing.  I want a Nurburgring carving auto, but most people don't buy cars like that.  And Porsche, BMW and Mercedes already have that market covered.  Cadillac needs to forge a new path.  Cadillac spent 15 years trying to be German, failed at it, time to try being American.  And interestingly enough the only successful product they made in the past 15 years is the most American and most like an old school Cadillac.

With an aging population (and an overweight America) I think cars/SUVs that are easy to get in and out of (proper ride height) that are roomy and glide over bumps in our deteriorating roads and have good torque for smooth acceleration would do well.  EV's give you torque, roomy and quiet interior, so going al EV gets them half way there, if they can put together the other half and get the marketing.   Because not only has it been a long time since I rock and rolled, it has been a long time since Cadillac made a good ad.  

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac cut ELR, XTS, ATS, CTS, XTS, SRX and CT6 from their lineup over a 4 year period.  That is 7 model lines...

You listed 'XTS' twice, so your list would be '6'. The ATS and CTS are still right there in the catalog, they just have new generations with altered names, so your list drops to '4'. SRX was replaced with a new generation product with an altered name... so your list drops to '3'. Now add back in the brand new models XT4 and XT6. That's a net cut of ONE.
Don't you need to be decent at math to work in a loan department?

Quote

{mercedes is} cutting cars that don't sell...

Those would be "failures" by your definition.

Cadillac tried that strategy 15 years ago and it failed and they keep going for it and kept failing.

You mean one of the most brutal & acclaimed performance sports sedans of all time? The one that burst into the German segment, up-ended their comfort levels and stole their market share? That 'strategy'?

Edited August 11, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

Cadillac didn’t steal any market share, they have less now than they did in 2005.  And Cadillac left the middle and upper sedan segments and now compete with CLA and C-class. 
 

If Cadillac’s strategy had been working they wouldn’t change leaders, change the names, change the product line, etc every 5 years.

[balthazar]

^ Really? What was Cadillac's high performance sports sedan market share prior to the appearance of the CTS-V?

When you have a brand that's never offered their own interpretation of such a vehicle, then -once it arrives and had been around for going on 20 years now- garners instant cred and even eclipses the established players... that's the OPPOSITE of 'failed'. Mercedes / BMW have to not only acknowledge, but keep pace with the Cadillac V-series. That's the very definition of 'success'.

[ccap41]

I think this looks pretty dang good outside of the upper rear section with that awkward light. I think the rest looks pretty awesome. Granted, this is only 80-85% the finished product, I think it is a great start for a nearly finished product. 

On 8/6/2020 at 8:46 PM, smk4565 said:

 Seems like this will be a 2023 model, so it is a ways off.  I don't know why they would show their hand that far out, and I think what they have isn't better than what Tesla was selling a couple years ago.  

You would have thought they'd show the Hummer EV first. I mean that's supposed to be out next year or some sht. 

[ccap41]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:41 AM, balthazar said:

Didn't it take 2 years for Tesla between the showing of the Model 3 to being able to buy it?
Hell, hasn't the M3 (a trim and engine upgrade on the same model) taken 1.5 years to go on sale from when a new 3-series did? This sort of time span is certainly not unprecedented.

I don't think that part is weird. I think it is weird they showed this before the Hummer because that supposedly goes on sale next year, I believe. 

[David]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think this looks pretty dang good outside of the upper rear section with that awkward light. I think the rest looks pretty awesome. Granted, this is only 80-85% the finished product, I think it is a great start for a nearly finished product. 

Agree, over all I think it looks good, I kinda wonder if they felt the upper half of the rear is what would be tweaked based on consumer feedback and could end up being more upright SUV like.

Honestly, like Rivian, I think Cadillac could easily have a more upright 1990's like Suburban rear back and dump the stupid Coupe type rear end.

Something like this:

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think that part is weird. I think it is weird they showed this before the Hummer because that supposedly goes on sale next year, I believe. 

Agreed, The Hummer by GMC should have been shown before this as it is supposed to be on the dealer lots next summer.

[ccap41]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:25 PM, David said:

Yet I doubt the majority here myself included could tell these were E class and not S or C class.

Having Family DNA is one thing, having all levels of a product line blur into each other is another. MB has blurred all levels badly.

Hahaha you chose a a car with the same exact front fascia. Of course you can tell it is all the E Class. I can see how you might think it was all the C or S Class as well but you can definitely tell it is the same car and not a mixture of the three. 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Really? What was Cadillac's high performance sports sedan market share prior to the appearance of the CTS-V?

When you have a brand that's never offered their own interpretation of such a vehicle, then -once it arrives and had been around for going on 20 years now- garners instant cred and even eclipses the established players... that's the OPPOSITE of 'failed'. Mercedes / BMW have to not only acknowledge, but keep pace with the Cadillac V-series. That's the very definition of 'success'.

I meant Cadillac's whole brand market share has shrunk over the past 15 years in the USA.  

CTS-V and CT6 are now gone, so I guess they have 0% market share against 5 and 7-series and E and S-class.

Now that the luxury market is 70-75% SUV, performance SUV is going to be the measuring stick, and Cadillac doesn't have a player there.  Essentially Cadillac is back to the 90s with a slew of front drivers pitted against more agile, better handling rear drive Europeans 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

Agree, over all I think it looks good, I kinda wonder if they felt the upper half of the rear is what would be tweaked based on consumer feedback and could end up being more upright SUV like.

Honestly, like Rivian, I think Cadillac could easily have a more upright 1990's like Suburban rear back and dump the stupid Coupe type rear end.

Something like this:

Agreed, The Hummer by GMC should have been shown before this as it is supposed to be on the dealer lots next summer.

What car designers don't seem to get is people started walking away from sedans to get SUVs because they wanted more cargo space and more head room.  So their answer to make sedans desirable was to make sedans lower and sleeker with sloped rooflines, and then more people left sedans for SUVs.  Now they are making the SUVs lower and sleeker with sloped roof lines, next people will go buy vans since SUVs will have useless back seats and cargo room.  And come 2030 we'll see the new Ford Transit Fastback Coupe combing the utility of a van with a attractive fastback design of a 68 Mustang.

[balthazar]

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I meant Cadillac's whole brand market share has shrunk over the past 15 years in the USA.

No-ooooo, you stated :

Quote

Nurburgring carving auto.... Cadillac spent 15 years trying to be German, failed at it

That means only 1 thing; a high performance sports sedan. What's the Nurburing auto at mercedes, the sprinter? The CLA? No-ooooo, it's AMG-spec sedans.

My point stands; Cadillac came into a segment they never were before, and immediately rose to Tier 1 with their American interpretation of an uber-hi-po sports sedan. Where MB / BMW had the segment to themselves (maybe a few other stragglers), Cadillac took MARKET SHARE from them (it was 0% prior to) in what you seem to think is the Most Important segment (volume, here, be damned). By your constantly shifting definition; SUCCESS not 'failure'.

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What car designers don't seem to get is people started walking away from sedans to get SUVs because they wanted more cargo space and more head room.  So their answer to make sedans desirable was to make sedans lower and sleeker with sloped rooflines, and then more people left sedans for SUVs.

It wasn't headroom. Family sedans are taller now than they've been since the 1950s. A modern camry is 3 inches taller than my '64 full-size Pontiac.

It WAS cargo room to a degree, most definitely interior width (damned fat consoles), and vision height. Rooflines are not the issue.

Edited August 12, 2020 by balthazar

[smk4565]

I mean Cadillac with the whole line up spent the better part of 15 trying to copy the Germans and that didn't really work.  If CTS and CT6 were successful, they'd still be here.  And Germans again pretty much have the mid and large luxury segments to themselves, with the exception of the tiny volume of Genesis and Jaguar and the Lexus LS, since GS is dead.

[balthazar]

I mean Cadillac with the whole line up

^ We literally weren't talking about that, tho.
 

-sigh- : CTS is still here, it's called the CT5. Same exact size & configuration. How are you so confoozled on this point?

Were you likewise confoozed when the MB 430S was cancelled and a S430 took it's place?

[smk4565]

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

^ We literally weren't talking about that, tho.
 

-sigh- : CTS is still here, it's called the CT5. Same exact size & configuration. How are you so confoozled on this point?

Were you likewise confoozed when the MB 430S was cancelled and a S430 took it's place?

The CT5 starts $10k lower than the CTS, and it is 3 inches shorter which doesn't make much difference.   The CT5 has roughly the same base price as a CLA, and a CT5-V starts about $5k lower than a CLA45.  The CLA45 is also faster than the CT5-V in a straight line or around a track.  So I wouldn't say the CT5 is in the E-class's segment, it it's a CLA fighter now.

[balthazar]

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The CT5 starts $10k lower than the CTS, and it is 3 inches shorter which doesn't make much difference.   The CT5 has roughly the same base price as a CLA, and a CT5-V starts about $5k lower than a CLA45.  The CLA45 is also faster than the CT5-V in a straight line or around a track.  So I wouldn't say the CT5 is in the E-class's segment, it it's a CLA fighter now.

It's 1.7 inches shorter, not "3" [195.5" vs 193.8"]. Numbers.

Of course, in this context you are correct : neither 1.7", nor the fictitious 3", makes a difference.
So why bring up the stat?

CT5-V goes all the way to $70K, and the Blackwing hasn't even been released yet. As discussed, base MSRP is meaningless. Cadillac literally doesn't build any cars at base MSRP.

Regardless, the point, which seems to blow by you like dandelion fluff at 60 MPH, is that that Cadillac which you claim was canceled, WASN'T. It's right here :

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

CT5-V goes all the way to $70K, and the Blackwing hasn't even been released yet. As discussed, base MSRP is meaningless. Cadillac literally doesn't build any cars at base MSRP.

Regardless, the point, which seems to blow by you like dandelion fluff at 60 MPH, is that that Cadillac which you claim was canceled, WASN'T. It's right here :

The CLA goes to over $76,000.  And the CLA45 does the Nurburgring ring in 7:42 which is the same as the estimated time of the 640 hp CTS-V so it no doubt would spank the CT5-V.   If we do get a Blackwing CT5 I imagine it will edge out the CLA45, but not the bigger AMG’s.  

[USA-1]

Nice write-up as usual @William Maley, found some great pics with good detail as well.

This Lyriq looks pretty sleek. I like how it's keeping the Cadillac family design cues but stretching it some. The iconic long vertical LED light piping in front that will now function as headlamps are still slick, but also very evident so you know it's a Caddy coming at you or going down the road. I'm not crazy about the greenhouse of this pre production model with the sloped back-end, definitely needs a more upright look to it and the actual production model will most likely have more of it for interior headroom and general space. 

 

It's comical to me how an uninformed individual on here gets into bringing up the POS FWD based Merc CLA trying to compare it to a CTS-V (hilarious I won't even go there) or a CT5, the CLA is a garbage economy car, ask anyone who's owned one. CLA is nowhere close to what a CT5 is as a RWD based sedan with a much better built chassis. I drove a white 2020 CT5 with the Premium Luxury trim for the day a couple of weeks ago. The CT5 with the 3.0TT is very quick with a very quiet interior and refined ride that was firm in Sport mode, but not harsh and smooth in Tour mode. The 10 spd is butter smooth with crisp shifts as well (love the GM 10 spd in every vehicle I've driven with it, they nailed it), the 3.0TT V6 with the PL trim or V-Series is where it's at.

Blackwing CT4 and 5 are going to be mean machines! Can't wait. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by USA-1

[riviera74]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:02 PM, smk4565 said:

They said all Cadillacs will be EV eventually and all EV Cadillac's will have an "iq" name, so I guess CT, XT will all be replaced.  Not sure how they fit Escalade in that.  Which is why these naming conventions are dumb and they should go back to names.   Eldorado sounds a hell of a lot better tan Soniq, or Boutiq or Magnifiq, or whatever lame name they give to the electric sedan they make.  

Also this Cadillac trying to be urban and techy to appeal to millennials on the coasts or to build Nurburring corner carvers isn't working.  Americans who buy Cadillacs want roomy cars, Cadillac built cramped interior ATS and CTS and scared them off, and they attracted zero German car snobs in the process.  Roomy, comfortable ride, quiet, torquey should be the pillars of Cadillac.  

 

On 8/11/2020 at 10:15 PM, smk4565 said:

I mean Cadillac with the whole line up spent the better part of 15 trying to copy the Germans and that didn't really work.  If CTS and CT6 were successful, they'd still be here.  And Germans again pretty much have the mid and large luxury segments to themselves, with the exception of the tiny volume of Genesis and Jaguar and the Lexus LS, since GS is dead.

The simple question is this: Why should a luxury car/CUV buyer switch to Cadillac over Lexus and the Germans?  If I knew what Cadillac's unique selling point was, then I would push that and somehow get luxury buyers to ditch German iron in a heartbeat.  Why are all of Cadillac CUVs FWD?  Simple: the original SRX was not the great seller Cadillac needed it to be so they switched it to FWD and sales soared.  That is why all of the XTs are FWD appliances.  Emulating the Germans was a failure where it matters most: the sales charts.  What Cadillac REALLY needs is a USP that will crush the Germans.  Only problem: half of US car buyers will not even consider buying or leasing GM product whatsoever.

As for the Lyriq, Cadillac really needs a plan to take back market share right now.  Especially before the Lyriq and other Cadillac EVs are released to the public.

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

 

The simple question is this: Why should a luxury car/CUV buyer switch to Cadillac over Lexus and the Germans? 

Well, there are existing GM appliance owners (Chevy/GMC/Buick) that GM hopes will aspire to Cadillac and move up.  That would be the majority of sales vs conquest sales? 

[balthazar]

Consumers do not 'move up' thru an existing brand, but perhaps they do within a corporation.