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Acura TL caught naked


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Wow, it looks like a cross between a ton of different cars. Aura truck, Civic rear lights, obviously the grille is terrible. Headlights are ok, but the grille ruins them. Profile could be mistaken for 15 other cars.

Wow, Honda, wow. After the pretty good-looking current car, you do this?

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Guest aatbloke

The hind quarters remind me an awful lot of BMW's 6-series. Whilst I'd prefer a more subdued grille, Honda are definitely pushing the boat out with this particular design feature to make Acura stand out from the crowd. It's a controversial move which will either pay dividends or end up in a swift redesign.

Edited by aatbloke
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There used to be a time that ugly, weird, goofy design would be the deathnell of a new model.

Not anymore. I do believe ugly is in. This car and other Acuras will sell very well.

Edited by HarleyEarl
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Lots of wierdness...the oversized grille-thing, the Aura decklid, the Accordish taillights....they couldn't even get the rear door upper frames to lineup with the chrome trim correctly (picture 5). Dissapointing.

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There used to be a time that ugly, weird, goofy design would be the deathnell of a new model.

Not anymore. I do believe ugly is in. This car and other Acuras will sell very well.

I don't think so. I read every comment at Autoblog, and only one person seemed to like the design. Acura has been losing relevancy in the market for years; I think they have just made a fatal mistake with this and the RL.

Edited by mustang84
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That grille has GOT to be a joke! That's insane- it's monsterous! Looks like it rear-ended a chrome tanker.

When will they ever learn that there's a wrong way to do a big grille....

and there's a right way!

2004%20Auto%20Show%20011%20-%20Buick%20V

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The front shots look pretty crazy, it actually stunned me for a brief moment when I first saw it. However, the angle of the shot (and given how close it is) is making the grill look much larger than it is. Even the person who took those photos said it doesn't look so crazy in person. It'll probably look really good in person.

The rear is what I was most interested in, and this is the first mostly uncovered shots of it. It elicits far less reaction than the front does. I don't think it's bad, throw some tall tail lights on it and you would think it was a Cadillac.

Edited by siegen
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The front shots look pretty crazy, it actually stunned me for a brief moment when I first saw it. However, he angle of the shot (and given how close it is) is making the grill look much larger than it is. Even the person who took those photos said it doesn't look so crazy in person. It'll probably look really good in person.

The rear is what I was most interested in, and this is the first mostly uncovered shots of it. It elicits far less reaction than the front does. I don't think it's bad, throw some tall tail lights on it and you would think it was a Cadillac.

I don't know how you could even pretend that it might not be so bad. The rear is Aura/Civic coupe and the front is just horrible.

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I don't know how you could even pretend that it might not be so bad. The rear is Aura/Civic coupe and the front is just horrible.

I don't know how you can pass such firm judgment without seeing it in person or driving it.

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wow... what a piece of trash! :huh:

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I take back my Honda Camry comment... The Camry looks better. :wacko:

I'll wait to see it in person, but if pictures can make a car look this bad, there's some sort of problem with the design.

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>>"I don't know how you can pass such firm judgment without seeing it in person or driving it. "<<

Why in the world would you have to drive it to formulate an opinion on the front-end design? You can't even see the grille from the driver's seat.... or can you ? :P

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Yeah, that Acura is ugly enough to be in the sequal to "The Sixth Day" w/out Schwarzenegger, smaller buget.

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I don't know how you can pass such firm judgment without seeing it in person or driving it.

Who said anything about driving dynamics? How it drives has nothing to do with how it looks. The only part of the front that's camo'd is the badge, and I'm pretty sure the small, circular badge will not drastically change the overall appearance of the front end of that thing...

TL.jpg

Nope, still hideous.

Edited by Dodgefan
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Thanks for posting the PR image again. It shows that the fish-eye effect on the lens in those spyshots really does over exaggerate the grille. I can honestly say I do like the new TL from what I've seen. And if past models are any indication, I will like it more in person.

It's funny how predicable most internet posters. Almost the same reaction can be seen at vtec.net. I'm not sure where the strong prejudice comes from, but it seems like every new model that comes out is instantly ugly. I am not innocent as I have made similar comments about the Mazda 6, among others.

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Thanks for posting the PR image again. It shows that the fish-eye effect on the lens in those spyshots really does over exaggerate the grille. I can honestly say I do like the new TL from what I've seen. And if past models are any indication, I will like it more in person.

It's funny how predicable most internet posters. Almost the same reaction can be seen at vtec.net. I'm not sure where the strong prejudice comes from, but it seems like every new model that comes out is instantly ugly. I am not innocent as I have made similar comments about the Mazda 6, among others.

For me, it's the grille, really...the updated RL doesn't look better than the previous, likewise for the new TSX and the new TL compared to previous versions. The previous models were much cleaner, the new ones seem to attempt to be 'bolder' looking with the tacky shield grilles...

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Thanks for posting the PR image again. It shows that the fish-eye effect on the lens in those spyshots really does over exaggerate the grille. I can honestly say I do like the new TL from what I've seen. And if past models are any indication, I will like it more in person.

It's funny how predicable most internet posters. Almost the same reaction can be seen at vtec.net. I'm not sure where the strong prejudice comes from, but it seems like every new model that comes out is instantly ugly. I am not innocent as I have made similar comments about the Mazda 6, among others.

Maybe because it is ugly? Honestly, Acura's best grill experiement was the MDX, which I rather liked. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it just seems you have no problem with the styling of any of the new Hondas.

You still haven't told us what driving the car has to do with how it looks.

Edited by Dodgefan
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fish eye? pr image? dude, Acura is loosing it.

This thing looks like a buck toothed beaver.

It's ugly-ugly, not like a BMW-ugly that

sometimes grows on you with time, or that

kind of BIZZARE-UGLY that turns you off at

first because you just can't find a good

focal point or good viewing angle but over

time it grows on you.

The Ridgeline is STILL ugly, and this will still

be ugly (to me anyway) no matter how

much time passes. A 1978 Ford Granada is

an ugly POS same as it was in 1978!

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Thanks for posting the PR image again. It shows that the fish-eye effect on the lens in those spyshots really does over exaggerate the grille. I can honestly say I do like the new TL from what I've seen. And if past models are any indication, I will like it more in person.

It's funny how predicable most internet posters. Almost the same reaction can be seen at vtec.net. I'm not sure where the strong prejudice comes from, but it seems like every new model that comes out is instantly ugly. I am not innocent as I have made similar comments about the Mazda 6, among others.

...we all have what we like and dislike. Honda has yet to build a car as good looking as the Mazda 6 IMHO.

Chris

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fish eye? pr image? dude, Acura is loosing it.

This thing looks like a buck toothed beaver.

It's ugly-ugly, not like a BMW-ugly that

sometimes grows on you with time, or that

kind of BIZZARE-UGLY that turns you off at

first because you just can't find a good

focal point or good viewing angle but over

time it grows on you.

The Ridgeline is STILL ugly, and this will still

be ugly (to me anyway) no matter how

much time passes. A 1978 Ford Granada is

an ugly POS same as it was in 1978!

The Granada is still better looking IMHO than the Acura though.

Chris

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Maybe because it is ugly? Honestly, Acura's best grill experiement was the MDX, which I rather liked. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it just seems you have no problem with the styling of any of the new Hondas.

You still haven't told us what driving the car has to do with how it looks.

When the MDX first came out it met with equal negative opinions. The Civic also met with very negative opinions, the sedan especially. Even the old RSX was blasted at first because it wasn't as sleek or athletic looking as the old Integra. Honda designs, just about all of them save for the S2000, have a love to hate effect on everyone that sees them. The new TL is a very fine looking car, more substantial than the old, more focused on luxury, and is a big improvement on the old one IMHO.

A picture can either make or break a vehicle. Take a look at the PR shots for the new TSX (click). Notice how horrible they are. The angles are bad, they chose a bad color. Now look at this new owner's pictures of the same "boring" gray color (click). Night and day difference, for the exact same car. This is the best one IMHO; I don't see how people could have hated that car so much.

When you first commented I thought you were talking about the vehicle overall, not just the grille.

...we all have what we like and dislike. Honda has yet to build a car as good looking as the Mazda 6 IMHO.

Chris

Which Mazda 6? The ugly old one or the ugly new one?

Trick question! :neenerneener:

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It seems to me the person who designed this car should stick his head in that guillotine grille and let the blade fall... anyone got a basket? :AH-HA_wink:
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again, there is not a reason to consider this when a g8 GT or GXP is available with better performance at a lower price. unless you want snow traction and were simply upset with the visual abortion nissan did to the maxima.

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again, there is not a reason to consider this when a g8 GT or GXP is available with better performance at a lower price. unless you want snow traction and were simply upset with the visual abortion nissan did to the maxima.

I sat in a G8 GT yesterday while waiting for the Passat to be serviced (also test drove the new Jetta TDI), and while it's nice inside with leather, it's obviously still not a luxury car. The current TL has a nicer interior than the G8, and you get lots of luxury equipment - memory seats, real-time navigation, ELS surround sound, Xenons, Bluetooth - not even available as options on the Pontiac.

I'd still take the G8, but then I value performance over luxury.

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It seems to me the person who designed this car should stick his head in that guillotine grille and let the blade fall... anyone got a basket? :AH-HA_wink:

HAHHAHA!

Maybe we can translate "let them eat cake" to 2008:

Honda PR:

(in response to complaints about this hideous zit-shaped Acura)

"Let them buy MDXs"

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again, there is not a reason to consider this when a g8 GT or GXP is available with better performance at a lower price. unless you want snow traction and were simply upset with the visual abortion nissan did to the maxima.

Traction, more efficient engine, and nicer interior, more content are strong reasons... (the current TL interior is nicer than the G8, I'm assuming the new will be nicer). And available manual transmission, I assume.

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When the MDX first came out it met with equal negative opinions. The Civic also met with very negative opinions, the sedan especially. Even the old RSX was blasted at first because it wasn't as sleek or athletic looking as the old Integra. Honda designs, just about all of them save for the S2000, have a love to hate effect on everyone that sees them. The new TL is a very fine looking car, more substantial than the old, more focused on luxury, and is a big improvement on the old one IMHO.

A picture can either make or break a vehicle. Take a look at the PR shots for the new TSX (click). Notice how horrible they are. The angles are bad, they chose a bad color. Now look at this new owner's pictures of the same "boring" gray color (click). Night and day difference, for the exact same car. This is the best one IMHO; I don't see how people could have hated that car so much.

When you first commented I thought you were talking about the vehicle overall, not just the grille.

Which Mazda 6? The ugly old one or the ugly new one?

Trick question! :neenerneener:

Thing about the TSX is that the grill is not nearly as massive. It looks fine, if not particularly exciting. The problem with Acur's new grill isn't so much the grill itself but that the designers seem to have no clue about proportions. The RL is a good example of this. I think you yourself chopped the grill to be a bit smaller and it made a huge difference. The TL, if the grill were smaller and more in proportion would look significantly better. Either way it's not exciting, but at least it wouldn't look ugly up front.

My beef with the rear end is that it's not original, but it looks fine.

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Traction, more efficient engine, and nicer interior, more content are strong reasons... (the current TL interior is nicer than the G8, I'm assuming the new will be nicer). And available manual transmission, I assume.

TL's interior is nice but not nearly on par with say, Audi. Its basically a tarted up Accord with metal trim. G8's is not all that bad. More spartan, but certainly not out of place.

I think the G8 would have the Accord super trumped if it gets the same engine tranny combo that the Camaro is getting, and I fully expect that to be the case in 2010.

Edited by regfootball
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again, there is not a reason to consider this when a g8 GT or GXP is available with better performance at a lower price. unless you want snow traction and were simply upset with the visual abortion nissan did to the maxima.

Hmmmm, more G8 comparisons. :scratchchin:

The G8 has a V8, therefore it is better in every conceivable way. Yes I understand this. But somehow all the people still buying vehicles other than the G8 don't. Strange.

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THE V8, in and of by itself is not what makes the G8 200% more car than the Acura is.

1. RWD

2. RWD

3. RWD

4. nicer styling by a mile

5. availability of V6 AND V8s.

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THE V8, in and of by itself is not what makes the G8 200% more car than the Acura is.

1. RWD

2. RWD

3. RWD

4. nicer styling by a mile

5. availability of V6 AND V8s.

RWD-only, muscle-car styling, and a V8. If those are your 3 primary concerns when purchasing a car, then the G8 is certainly a better purchase for you, and chances are the Acura or other luxury cars won't be cross-shopped. People don't buy a TL for any of those reasons.

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RWD-only, muscle-car styling, and a V8. If those are your 3 primary concerns when purchasing a car, then the G8 is certainly a better purchase for you, and chances are the Acura or other luxury cars won't be cross-shopped. People don't buy a TL for any of those reasons.

Correct..different products, different market niche.

Edited by moltar
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RWD-only, muscle-car styling, and a V8. If those are your 3 primary concerns when purchasing a car, then the G8 is certainly a better purchase for you, and chances are the Acura or other luxury cars won't be cross-shopped. People don't buy a TL for any of those reasons.

dude, the G8 is drop dead gorgeous and is not a muscle car styling exercise. if anything its a GM interpretation of BMW forms. The g8 looks in proper company parked next to any BMW.

the TL....not at all. its a visual abortion.

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Correct..different products, different market niche.

yet for the same money, the G8 is a much better use of money. more car and performance, unless you're obsessed with nav and a vtec logo on the engine cover. and love it when consumer reports reaffirms your decision.

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yet for the same money, the G8 is a much better use of money. more car and performance, unless you're obsessed with nav and a vtec logo on the engine cover. and love it when consumer reports reaffirms your decision.

Again, though, whether it is a 'much better' use of money depends on the consumer's individual needs and how the product matches those needs. Not everyone has the same needs and interests in products.

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Well I for one think Acuras are for Nerds, Wrinkled

baby-boomers & momma's boys. After they own

them for a few years (or lease) it becomes a "hand

me down" for a high school or college kid and after

that it goes to some inner city dope with a taste

for hennesey and "GANGSTA" tatoos.

It is at this point that the car becomes even MORE

unappealing when it receives a few gross scars like

perhaps a crunched hood and plastic over its

broken window. Then it gets 2 coils cut out of its

alrady tired springs, and subsequently the entire

undercarriage, oil & trans pans & gas tank get

scratched up as sparks fly when the car goes over

any & all (even minor) potholes & manhole covers.

Of course a all this is complemented by a 2 foot

tall decklid "Red Barron" spoiler, 20" rims with

gawwwd-awful styling & a body kit that is mostly

just cheap injection molded PVC that gets dry-wall

screwed to the squishy & rusty rocker panels.

I'll stop now... :P

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I don't like the front end of this thing, as previously stated, but different strokes for different folks. Not everyone wants or needs RWD or a V8.

That's why we have choices/

Yes, some people on here don't seem to comprehend that simple fact. I like RWD and V8s, but I do like the current TL (and know several owners, who are well-educated 30-something professionals, not the people described in 68's juvenile rant). I'm not a big FWD fan, but I do like the looks of the current TL, love the interior, and have driven them a few times..they drive very nicely.

Edited by moltar
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Yes, some people on here don't seem to comprehend that simple fact. I like RWD and V8s, but I do like the current TL (and know several owners, who are well-educated 30-something professionals, not the people described in 68's juvenile rant). I'm not a big FWD fan, but I do like the looks of the current TL, love the interior, and have driven them a few times..they drive very nicely.

I think the current one looks great, especially in Type S form.

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The sad part of this is, just recently, Acura actually had some styling cues that made me look twice.

This car has none of them.

It's just flat out ugly.

Even if GM suddenly bought Acura and gave this car RWD and the LS9, it would still be such an eyesore I'd never take a closer look.

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The sad part of this is, just recently, Acura actually had some styling cues that made me look twice.

This car has none of them.

It's just flat out ugly.

Even if GM suddenly bought Acura and gave this car RWD and the LS9, it would still be such an eyesore I'd never take a closer look.

Yes, I'm not liking their new stying direction..they've had many models over the last 20 years that I've liked--the TL, RL, Legend, CL, NSX..

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Juvenile I may be but compromise my standars I will not.

I had almost, but not quite a Audi/Infiniti level of respect

for some Acuras in the past, but I really have lost 95%

of it over the years... they're just tarted up Honda sedan

and coupe &#036;h&#33;piles now, nothing else.

Equally priced 3-ser. Bimmer and G8 are so much more

car than this (ugly styling aside) that it is like comparing

the AMG E-class and Cadillac V-series to a Taurus SHO.

Okay, that's a bit harsh but not by much.

The F$%&ng products at Honda have been DE-evolving

and no one seems to mind, in fact the price keeps going

up as the cars get "dummed down" and get closer to a

high end Hyundai than any non-VW German car, or

for that matter even a damn FWD Volvo or Opel.

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if we're gonna praise FWD lux cars now then at least get an Audi (German, real lux car) and not an Accord with metal console trim.

its so ok to praise honda for making FWD cars, no one else.

Honda has no RWD sedans. Hey, Hyundai does!

Edited by regfootball
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Juvenile I may be but compromise my standars I will not.

I had almost, but not quite a Audi/Infiniti level of respect

for some Acuras in the past, but I really have lost 95%

of it over the years... they're just tarted up Honda sedan

and coupe &#036;h&#33;piles now, nothing else.

Equally priced 3-ser. Bimmer and G8 are so much more

car than this (ugly styling aside) that it is like comparing

the AMG E-class and Cadillac V-series to a Taurus SHO.

Okay, that's a bit harsh but not by much.

The F$%&ng products at Honda have been DE-evolving

and no one seems to mind, in fact the price keeps going

up as the cars get "dummed down" and get closer to a

high end Hyundai than any non-VW German car, or

for that matter even a damn FWD Volvo or Opel.

at least the volvos are interesting

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again, there is not a reason to consider this when a g8 GT or GXP is available with better performance at a lower price. unless you want snow traction and were simply upset with the visual abortion nissan did to the maxima.

IMHO the new Maxima has to be one of the ugliest cars of the 21st century.

Had it been built 10 years ago, it would also have the honor of being one of the ugliest cars of the 20th century.

chris

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if we're gonna praise FWD lux cars now then at least get an Audi (German, real lux car) and not an Accord with metal console trim.

its so ok to praise honda for making FWD cars, no one else.

Honda has no RWD sedans. Hey, Hyundai does!

Audi has greaty features and build fantastic cars...but this show how this is all subjective.

Somewhere on another forum a Nissan Maxima owner is blasting an Audi product.

Chris

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THE V8, in and of by itself is not what makes the G8 200% more car than the Acura is.

1. RWD

2. RWD

3. RWD

4. nicer styling by a mile

5. availability of V6 AND V8s.

The G8 has style...I would love to pull up with my wife and family in a G8. It ain't just the RWD, buddy...

The Acura we are discussing would be perfect if we were pulling into a circus ring and eight million clowns were going to get out.

chris

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The sad part of this is, just recently, Acura actually had some styling cues that made me look twice.

This car has none of them.

It's just flat out ugly.

Even if GM suddenly bought Acura and gave this car RWD and the LS9, it would still be such an eyesore I'd never take a closer look.

I would...could you say "PARTS" for a great street rod or kit car?

That would be about it for me, I'm afraid.

Chris

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I would tattoo a Genesis on my chest before ever

buying a new Acura.

And if it was such a great product wouldn't it be called: ACCURA!?!?!?

I think I spell 'bout as well as a person with half my IQ....

I suck at typing too and my brain is always ahead of my fingers,

not to mention my first language is Slovakian which I can spell

perfe tly since its... waddayacallit.... PHONETIC!

Edited by Sixty8panther
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Well I for one think Acuras are for Nerds, Wrinkled

baby-boomers & momma's boys. After they own

them for a few years (or lease) it becomes a "hand

me down" for a high school or college kid and after

that it goes to some inner city dope with a taste

for hennesey and "GANGSTA" tatoos.

It is at this point that the car becomes even MORE

unappealing when it receives a few gross scars like

perhaps a crunched hood and plastic over its

broken window. Then it gets 2 coils cut out of its

alrady tired springs, and subsequently the entire

undercarriage, oil & trans pans & gas tank get

scratched up as sparks fly when the car goes over

any & all (even minor) potholes & manhole covers.

Of course a all this is complemented by a 2 foot

tall decklid "Red Barron" spoiler, 20" rims with

gawwwd-awful styling & a body kit that is mostly

just cheap injection molded PVC that gets dry-wall

screwed to the squishy & rusty rocker panels.

I'll stop now... :P

You forgot the yellow paint and the "R" badge.

Chris

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Yes, some people on here don't seem to comprehend that simple fact. I like RWD and V8s, but I do like the current TL (and know several owners, who are well-educated 30-something professionals, not the people described in 68's juvenile rant). I'm not a big FWD fan, but I do like the looks of the current TL, love the interior, and have driven them a few times..they drive very nicely.

Honda has done a great job building great driving cars. I have a very good friend who is a doctor, and drives an Acura TL. I'd never say "hey buddy your car is an ugly P.O.S." He loves his Acura.

I understand a lot of people love them. To me it is just bland.

The new Accord 2 door is starting to grow on me a little though. Not a car I'd buy, but the looks are growing on me.

Chris

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V-tec powah, yo!

That &#036;h&#33; will rev to like 9500 rpm and lift the front wheels off the ground!!!

....and the whistles go "wooooooooopppp!"

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Actually Sixty Eight you ought to go watch the Honda boys go play at a NASA or SCCA style event. At the NASA national championships the Honda H1 class (cars like Civic Si and Integra type R) were turning faster lap times around Mid Ohio than the Camaro-Mustang challenge cars.

I've seen plenty of front drive 4 cyl cars spank V-8 RWD cars on road racing tracks like Road Atlanta, Mid Ohio, Virginia International, etc.

The Ricers OTOH need to get a clue.

Actually though, at the last car show I was at, guy had a street lega/drivable Civic that ran low 11's, in the quarter. Was probably a lot faster than all of the 442's, Road runners, etc. there.

Chris

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I would tattoo a Genesis on my chest before ever

buying a new Acura.

You would never buy a new car anyway, so it's a moot point. You still want it to be 1970...isn't going to happen.

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I preferred the last gen TSX to the TL, it was just much more agile/tossable feeling even though it wasn't that much lighter overall. The TL had a lot more power but was comparably heavy feeling around corners and had torque steer issues.

These new ones both seem to have gotten bigger and bloated looking. Not a fan at all.

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dude, the G8 is drop dead gorgeous and is not a muscle car styling exercise. if anything its a GM interpretation of BMW forms. The g8 looks in proper company parked next to any BMW.

the TL....not at all. its a visual abortion.

I disagree. The G8 does not look nearly as substantial as a BMW 5-series. It is plain, vanilla, and really only has muscular proportions going for it.

yet for the same money, the G8 is a much better use of money. more car and performance, unless you're obsessed with nav and a vtec logo on the engine cover. and love it when consumer reports reaffirms your decision.

More car? How is it more car? Because it has a V8?

Well I for one think Acuras are for Nerds, Wrinkled

baby-boomers & momma's boys. After they own

them for a few years (or lease) it becomes a "hand

me down" for a high school or college kid and after

that it goes to some inner city dope with a taste

for hennesey and "GANGSTA" tatoos.

It is at this point that the car becomes even MORE

unappealing when it receives a few gross scars like

perhaps a crunched hood and plastic over its

broken window. Then it gets 2 coils cut out of its

alrady tired springs, and subsequently the entire

undercarriage, oil & trans pans & gas tank get

scratched up as sparks fly when the car goes over

any & all (even minor) potholes & manhole covers.

Of course a all this is complemented by a 2 foot

tall decklid "Red Barron" spoiler, 20" rims with

gawwwd-awful styling & a body kit that is mostly

just cheap injection molded PVC that gets dry-wall

screwed to the squishy & rusty rocker panels.

I'll stop now... :P

I believe the car you are describing is a Cavalier.

Actually I am certain of it.

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As a current 6MT TL owner I am looking forward to the new TL. I'm not currently a fan of the looks, but then I wasn't a fan of the new TSX pics but found it very nice in person. The only deal-breakers for me right now is whether or not I can get SH-AWD with a 6MT and whether or not Acura Canada will actually adjust their prices.

The only GM that I would currently consider test driving is the CTS. The G8 isn't even worth considering... and yes I know I can get it with a V8. Let the car without the hood scoops, boring exterior, and ugly interior cast the first stone.

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You would never buy a new car anyway, so it's a moot point. You still want it to be 1970...isn't going to happen.

WRONG.

1. If the Camaro had been a hardtop I'd have 100% def. bought one.

Not certain now, but hell, the window regulators, glass & 95% of the

rest of the conversion will be available directly through GM when the

ractop hits dealers...albeit expensive, so I might still buy one, or... if

and when we're doing better financially I think Julie woul love a small

to midsize car, she loves the Benz & maybe I can "sell her" a I4 turbo

or V6 Camaro. Then I'd still be throwing GM a bone & she'd be happy.

2. I most certainly DO NOT want it to be 1970. If anything more like

1968, or even 1963. Either way we are NOT going about building cars

in the best manner possible... I willl argue that to the death.

If you think there are not hundreds of inexcusable problems with

today's vehicles that were NOT existant in 1970, or 68 or 59.... then

you are not being realistic. I just want a happy medium, a few more

cars built for the coniseurs like myself. I am NOT alone. More & more

I see guys my age and youner who are turned off by ANYTING in a

new car showroom (esp. considering the price) because their dad,

grandfather, mom, godparent, neighbor or whoEVER introdiced them

to the finer world of classic cars.

I was very alone in this back in 1993-1997 (high school years) but

even then a very smart articulate & friendly kid, rich but not snob,

saved up his money form his part time job and with a lot of dad's

help, financial and time wise, they did a quick restoration on a '67

Pontiac GTO, w/ a non-matching (W.F. cares when you're 16y.o.)

and painted it what he called "midnight purple" and guess what?

That car was reliable, more fun than a parking lot of S2000s and it

probably got him more pu$$y than a women's RR toilet seat.

I WILL buy a new car when I can either afford to buy one that is

currently WORTH BUYING! (CLK500? CTS-V coupe?)

OR when GM gets a fu&&ing clue and build a car that I want, not

some over the top pipe dream but something FUN, traditional,

aesthetically and mechnically PURE and affordable.

Does it have to be a hardtop? not neccesarily but the Camaro's

HT roof was too much of a tease to buy one and not sawzall the

B-pillar out. The door glass is already frameless, so you're good

to go there, strip out the backseat area, cut out B-pillar, install

the convertibles's rear windows and integrate a channel into the

window opening for the ragtop's top weatherstripping. Then bite

I'd probably intergrate a rollcage hidden under the headliner,

a/c-pillar plastic trim and strengthen the rear 1/4 panel to make

the backseat into a safe structure durring a nasty T-bone.

OR.... GM could do it and take all the credit while getting praise

form the enthusiasts for building a car that lights up people's

imaginations.

non-hartop I'd buy new?

How about a compact, RWD econobox 2dr, 4dr & wagon along

the lines of the classic 1960s & 1970s BMW 2002? Why will then

not let Pontiac build something liek this already!?

Rear pop-out windows ala-the Bimmer would be excusable since

the rear 1/4 area woudn't be able to swallow the rear-side glass

anyway... give it the option of a REAL manual trans. and I bet

my freekin' life it would sell like hotcakes!

We need to gather up all the "safety Nazis" with giant butterfly

nets and ship 'em to an island far-faaaaar away.

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I believe the car you are describing is a Cavalier.

Actually I am certain of it.

For every ONE riced out J-body (or GM-anything for that matter)

there are about two dozen Japanese cars, 1/2 of them Hon-duh.

At least in Massachusetts & for that matter most other places I

have traveled in and out of N.E.

Just ask XP, or better yet, DF.

DodgeF lives just about 3/4 of a mile from the epi-center of the

New England ricer capital. I bet at least one of his neighbors has

exactly the car I described. The Autozones in this area stay well

stocked on "kustom" Type-R seat covers, LED-encrusted coffee

can exhaust tips & faux-carbon-fibre shifter knobs that are cast

from white-metal and actaully weigh about 12 oz.

I mildly "riced out" the old Datsun as a joke, I was going to go all

out and try to sell it to some crazy inner city youth for some

ungoddly amount of money, you know, his grandmother's entire

inheritance... or better yet a '96 Fleetwood Brougham that some

mexican ALMOST cut up into a lowrider but then got bored w/ it

before the project ever began.

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As a current 6MT TL owner I am looking forward to the new TL. I'm not currently a fan of the looks, but then I wasn't a fan of the new TSX pics but found it very nice in person. The only deal-breakers for me right now is whether or not I can get SH-AWD with a 6MT and whether or not Acura Canada will actually adjust their prices.

The only GM that I would currently consider test driving is the CTS. The G8 isn't even worth considering... and yes I know I can get it with a V8. Let the car without the hood scoops, boring exterior, and ugly interior cast the first stone.

It sounds like the TL will be offered with 6MT and SH-AWD for 2010, at least based on early leaked information.

See this thread on Sixty's favorite website. :AH-HA_wink:

Usually information that is posted by a mod in a main news item is fairly reliable, even if they can't give out their sources.

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Genuis idea for Honda to score more easy money off ignorant fools:

1. Slap ACURA emblems on all existing generators, motorcycles, ATVs etc.

2. Jack up price 35%

3. Laugh all the way to the bank.

/kidding (sort of)

Edited by Sixty8panther
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Chris:

I can duct tape a piece of cat-turd to a solid-fuel rocket

and make it go faster than Mary-lou's 5.0 Mustang, that

does not make it a better for of vehicular transport. :wink:

Seriously though:

Most of the Hondas that run 11s get 6.5 MPG and

cost twice as much to build up as a Chevy 350

powered car weighing 400 more lbs., so what the

hell is the point of having a raspy little 4-banger

that is constantly trying to kill itself at 8000RPM

and often times DOES? seriously

Why do people still act like it's a big deal that a

Honda can whipp an old school Camaro/GTO or

whatever, it's been done. At the end of the day

the Hodnda comands no respect outside of it's

speed, it's still a &#036;h&#33;box meant to get groceries.

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Chris:

I can duct tape a piece of cat-turd to a solid-fuel rocket

and make it go faster than Mary-lou's 5.0 Mustang, that

does not make it a better for of vehicular transport. :wink:

Seriously though:

Most of the Hondas that run 11s get 6.5 MPG and

cost twice as much to build up as a Chevy 350

powered car weighing 400 more lbs., so what the

hell is the point of having a raspy little 4-banger

that is constantly trying to kill itself at 8000RPM

and often times DOES? seriously

Why do people still act like it's a big deal that a

Honda can whipp an old school Camaro/GTO or

whatever, it's been done. At the end of the day

the Hodnda comands no respect outside of it's

speed, it's still a &#036;h&#33;box meant to get groceries.

Your thoughts and rants are very unrealistic. I don't expect you to know a lot about Honda swaps, anymore than I know about V8 swaps. But the easiest way to make a drag-queen Civic would be to start with a 2000-2100 lbs 92-95 Civic hatchback, and swap a turbocharged engine into it. Of course all the axles and supporting parts will need to be replaced, but there is a huge aftermarket for just about all of it. Also, there is a wide range of engines to use that all swap into that car with mostly OEM parts. A 1.8L base Integra engine would be the cheapest, at around $300 (non-vtec). It is a pretty good choice since vtec is less important for a turbocharged engine designed for the drag strip. When it is rebuilt to handle the turbo it can be bored out to 2.0L with new sleeves without the need to replace the crankshaft or rods.

The idiots that spend too much on their Civic are the ones that feel they need a "Type R" engine imported from Japan, in which case they will spend $5000-7000 on just the engine. Those idiots are usually the same ones that buy overly priced and extravagant sound systems that don't actually sound that good and rattle their car to pieces. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of those idiots out there. The ones that get horrible gas mileage and shoot smoke out their tail pipe are the ones that are using a cheap engine management module instead of a quality unit like a Hondata, and not getting their car properly tuned by a dyno shop.

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right.

And that's the point. Honda is for the stupid masses

in 2008 the lowest common denominator for idiotic

boy-racer Fast & Furiouser-er style stupidity.

The people who have a decent but respectable built

up Civic or Integra are the ones in the minority.

Also, there's nothing more pathetic in the Automotive

hobby, IMHO than "spending" (wasting) a 15, 20 or

more hours to swap in a 1.8 liter Honda motor where

a 1.6 liter just sat. What a fools errand.

In less time you could have dropped an indestructible

small block Chevy with twice the power...

(you are setting the precident of forced induction)

... and fof less money.

A worthwhile activity is spending two dozen hours to

drop a Buick 455 stage II into a Jaguar XJS with a

blown V12 or maybe replacing your '62 Impala's baby

V8 (283) with a built up LS1.

Wasting hours of time and agrevation just to gain 0.2

liters and 24 horsepower. With all due respect I think

that is LAME.

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I laughed 3 days in a row when a ricer tried to drive his Celica through a flooded street and ruined his car...it sat in the nearby parking lot for 3 days. On the 3rd day a black Dodge Ram was there to help get that piece of crap moving again. pwnt.

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DF:

you know what's funny?

XP and I were joyriding through Lawrencia during

one of those recent floods (2006 IIRC) & we saw

a few people do the EXACT same thing.

I was feeling bold one time and despite seeing a

few low to the ground japanese cars almost get

stuck in a huge puddle (wide, long pool of water)

it was maybe 14" deep... I almost went for it in

the Super 88 but XP and a nearby woman yelling

"DON DOOIT!" in half protugese/english made

me reconsider. I didn't have some pussy cold air

intake to ruin my day and the car's weather

stripping was in great shape, plus I'm a ballsy &

sometimes too bold dumb fu*k if I want to prove

a point. Perhaps it's a good thing I did not try.

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IMHO the new Maxima has to be one of the ugliest cars of the 21st century.

Had it been built 10 years ago, it would also have the honor of being one of the ugliest cars of the 20th century.

chris

thanks for the afternoon gut buster.....its helping me stomach the last few hours of work today!

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you haven't seen a stylish car until you've seen a G8 cruising by on the road going the opposite way.

the proportions, fender sculpting, greenhouse, grille and details on the G8 are far superior to any TSX or TL (especially the ricer edition TL with the black wheels etc.)

the TL as it is currently is not ugly, but simply is not on a style level requisite to an upscale car. The current TL generates is buzz from a nicer interior, tech features, and honda dynamics.

Most German lux fans look at the TL as a joke, for example.

Yet its generally agreed the G8 GT is highly comparable in many facets to a 5 series BMW. And can easily be in the presence of it in just about every way.

You need to get out and study the shape of the G8, as it is driving by, and standing still. It clearly is head and shoulders above the TL, current and new, in every way. Just not enough folks have seen it yet.

BTW the 04+ Max is way nicer looking than the TL's too.

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I agree... the G8 has some serious presance. It is very much

a "sharp dressed sport sedan" as ZZ Top might say. It might

not have the presance and bold lines of the M5 but it's

certainly as elegant & as sporty as any non-M 5-series BMW!

The only sedan on the market right now that I think is better

looking than the Infiniti M45, & even then it's almost a tie.

Well, actually I guess I'd say three way tie between CTS, G8

and the M45... the M5 is awesome and all but for that kind of

money it's in a different price bracket all together.

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I agree... the G8 has some serious presance. It is very much

a "sharp dressed sport sedan" as ZZ Top might say. It might

not have the presance and bold lines of the M5 but it's

certainly as elegant & as sporty as any non-M 5-series BMW!

The only sedan on the market right now that I think is better

looking than the Infiniti M45, & even then it's almost a tie.

Well, actually I guess I'd say three way tie between CTS, G8

and the M45... the M5 is awesome and all but for that kind of

money it's in a different price bracket all together.

True that about the M5... just standing next to one at the dealership makes me feel poor. :lol:

Hey, have you ever seen an M6 on the road? I never have.

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I haven't seen enough of the new Maxima but it just seems like the TL, a too large front heavy FWD vehicle. Once FWD cars get over 3400lbs there is just too much weight up front to make them any fun to drive around corners. The 2008 Maxima model is ugly IMO.

Edited by frogger
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Hey, have you ever seen an M6 on the road? I never have.

I've seen an M6 on the road, it was incredibly hot. I've also seen a couple of 6er convertibles, whihc were also quite hot. I want a 6er in the worst way. 645, 650, M6, coupe, convertible, dont care what, I just want one, they're so freaking sexy.

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