New York 2018: 2019 Cadillac CT6 V-Sport Packs 550 Horsepower V8: Comments

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs? 

The transverse Audis actually have better engine positioning than the longitudinally oriented Audis. Any Audi with a number below 4 and the TT will have a transverse engine. 

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs? 

The Chrysler LH cars are the same way. The front axle cuts through the front of the transmission and the entirety of the engine sits ahead of the front axle line.  

Audi A8 V8 and Transmission

The GM front wheel drive - longitudinally mounted setup is to my knowledge, unique.  In the Audis and LH cars, the transmission sits directly behind the engine.  In the GM setup, the transmission is mounted alongside the engine and the engine connects to the transmission via a reinforced nylon chain.

Toronado transmission

  This allows the GM setup to be significantly more compact, and as such the engine/transmission combination are balanced nearly perfectly over the centerline of the front axle.

1968 Toronado from below

[Cmicasa the Great]

First and foremost.. I told Y'all this was coming. I was told the engine was a 4.5L but this is even better considering the HP/L ratio. This engine is in no way the one that is going in the upcoming Vette from what I also hear. Second.. This car will likely be my trade to the CTS-V I currently know and love. 550HP/627ft-lb of torque.. in AWD and SuperCruise.. in a larger, lighter body is right what I want going forward into my 47th year. Lack of a V8 has been my hold back all along with the CT6.. getting 2 variation sis sweet.. but the top engine will be my choice. Interesting enough.. I am surprised that the 500HP version isn't the VSport and the 550HP version a VSeries. Perhaps there is something else coming.. altho I believe a higher HP version of the engine tech will be in the CT8 (Escala) which was given the green light for 2020-1. 

To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

Quote

from R&T, the new M5 ..  600 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque. That motor combined with the M5's new all-wheel drive system and automatic gearbox results in silly fast acceleration. Sixty mph comes up in 3.2 seconds and 124 mph arrives in 11.1. Top speed, when equipped with the optional M Driver's Package, is 189 mph. Weighs in at 4255lbs 

A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.

 

Also about the FWD vs RWD.. back in 2009 over at GMI I wrote this about the then.. upcoming XTS and revised SRX:
 

Quote

 

An issue that I see with people doubting Cadillac's full return is that they seem to rest those laurels on the possibility of them having a front wheel drive based platform for their soon to arrive flagship. 

Might I remind people within that train of thought that if this flagship is, from what I've read, Awd, larger, wider, more luxurious than the German competitors such as the A8, 750i and S550, with similar sport aspirations, quality and reliability in check, and their current detail in attractive styling, Cadillac will be quite capable of competing with a those aforementioned Germans.

From sightings of magazine reviews of the new SRX, and my own test drive of the vehicle after comparing it to both the Audi Q5 and BMW X5 I see no viable reason why, in terms of handling and feel, should the AWD inclusion be overlooked if it is used in lieu of the RWD standard. Truth is the only think I noticed different in driving the SRX vs the X5 was the difference in obtainable power in lower bands. Both having almost identical power enabled me to see not much of a determinable difference in overall performance. Could Cadillac be on to something using a similar config. for the XTS, hopefully with more powerful engines of course? 

Platforms. Trouble with that point of view is that 95% of the car buyers don't know a thing about platforms. I'm a "car guy" and with the exception of GM and some BMWs I have almost no clue what the other makers are using under which vehicle. What matters to me is ultimately performance, prestige, and comfort in a vehicle such as this. 

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

I certainly hope you get something along these lines and add it to the C and G fleet. Cadillac has been impressing the hell out of me lately. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

First and foremost.. I told Y'all this was coming. I was told the engine was a 4.5L but this is even better considering the HP/L ratio. This engine is in no way the one that is going in the upcoming Vette from what I also hear. Second.. This car will likely be my trade to the CTS-V I currently know and love. 550HP/627ft-lb of torque.. in AWD and SuperCruise.. in a larger, lighter body is right what I want going forward into my 47th year. Lack of a V8 has been my hold back all along with the CT6.. getting 2 variation sis sweet.. but the top engine will be my choice. Interesting enough.. I am surprised that the 500HP version isn't the VSport and the 550HP version a VSeries. Perhaps there is something else coming.. altho I believe a higher HP version of the engine tech will be in the CT8 (Escala) which was given the green light for 2020-1. 

To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.

 

Also about the FWD vs RWD.. back in 2009 over at GMI I wrote this about the then.. upcoming XTS and revised SRX:
 

 

If you get that, I'll be making a trip up to visit you and take it out for an extended drive and review. Not joking. 

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.

 

 

Car and Driver clocked the M5 at 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.9 seconds in the quarter mile.  The CTS-V was 0-60 in 3.8 seconds with a 12.0 quarter mile in the same test.  The M5 is 4288 lbs.  I am sure a CT6 V8 will be in the 4500 lb range.  Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

[Drew Dowdell]

M5 is AWD, CTS-V is not. It's purely a traction issue.

[David]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

Compared to ALL Traditional TT V8 motors, the PUSHROD is Smaller packaged, weighs less and takes up less Space.

Cadillac took a totally different approach and put both Turbo's in the Valley of the V so rather than be on the outside of the motor, it is in the center. Electronic Turbo's do not need the pulley to drive them and can be packaged for a tight design something that another member had brought up long ago in the original start of debate about Pushrod versus DOHC motors. Yet NO ONE not even MB has packaged them this way to be tightly integrated.

This is truly a change in thinking to package and drop the added weight of the plumbing, belts, etc. Truly a more efficient design now that materials and computer programming have dealt with the Thermal issues.

Will all be nothing once AWD EV with proper battery packs takes over.

[Cmicasa the Great]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Car and Driver clocked the M5 at 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.9 seconds in the quarter mile.  The CTS-V was 0-60 in 3.8 seconds with a 12.0 quarter mile in the same test.  The M5 is 4288 lbs.  I am sure a CT6 V8 will be in the 4500 lb range.  Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

I've seen Vseries numbers lower than that at other publications and so have U.  But cherry picking to fit your hate seems to be your natural trait. Either way.. AWD is the reason for the advantage that the M5 has in out accelerating the V. The CT6 addresses this.. I can attest that launching my 640hp beast on the fly is a chore unless launch control is perfectly engaged. Furthermore I will tell U that U are crazy if U think the CTS-V is gonna hit the market without AWD and a nice Milford beat down of the M5 and E63Amg before hitting the market. I wouldn't be surprised if the CT6 out accelerates both the new M5 and CTS-V with this system coupled with the 10speed

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

M5 is AWD, CTS-V is not. It's purely a traction issue.

Or a bad engineering issue.  Why put power in a car you can’t use, and the E63 and RS6/RS7 were all wheel drive when the current CTS came out.  And Cadillac could add AWD anytime they want, but are too cheap to do so.

[Drew Dowdell]

You're just a troll.  The German brands did a lot of hand wringing over adding AWD and a lot of purists bashed them for it. 

Where is BMW's or Mercedes' four wheel steering? I guess they're just too cheap to do it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

Why do Mercede's power trains consistently lag Cadillac's in output for a given configuration? Why does it take a V8 from Benz to exceed a Turbo 6 from Cadillac? Why can't Benz build a Turbo 6 to beat Cadillac without throwing electric motors on it to help out? Too cheap?

Why can't Benz build a suspension that has faster reaction time than Cadillac? I guess they're just too cheap

 

 

 

Or you're just a troll.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

Cadillac took a totally different approach and put both Turbo's in the Valley of the V so rather than be on the outside of the motor, it is in the center. Electronic Turbo's do not need the pulley to drive them and can be packaged for a tight design something that another member had brought up long ago in the original start of debate about Pushrod versus DOHC motors. Yet NO ONE not even MB has packaged them this way to be tightly integrated.

Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

[Cmicasa the Great]

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Or a bad engineering issue.  Why put power in a car you can’t use, and the E63 and RS6/RS7 were all wheel drive when the current CTS came out.  And Cadillac could add AWD anytime they want, but are too cheap to do so.

Coupla things with that.. the current CTS-V has power that can be used.. it just takes proper launching tactics.. once in flight.. the power remains from the endless torque and hp avail. The Audis U mentioned have always been AWD.. for the sake of VW dwindling platforms. The E63AMG just got AWD a few years ago.. The GM AWD system that came out with the CT6 debuted in 2015 with capabilities of handling up to.. if I remember..  950ft-lbs of torque. 

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

answer Drew's fuckin questions!!!

[Frisky Dingo]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

Why do Mercede's power trains consistently lag Cadillac's in output for a given configuration? Why does it take a V8 from Benz to exceed a Turbo 6 from Cadillac? Why can't Benz build a Turbo 6 to beat Cadillac without throwing electric motors on it to help out? Too cheap?

Why can't Benz build a suspension that has faster reaction time than Cadillac? I guess they're just too cheap

 

 

 

Or you're just a troll.

 

Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

Why are their backseats so small?

Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

 

 

And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

[Drew Dowdell]

 @smk4565  a troll who can't even get basic facts right even when he has been reminded of them many many many multiple times.

More than 12 volt power? Welcome to a 2008 Malibu Hybrid. 48 volts is not some magic number... The Prius uses more than 48 volts as does...the Volt.  OMG wHY iS mERcedES so F@r bEhinD gm!!!n??!?

[Suaviloquent]

I don't think the M5 and CT6 Vsport are really direct competitors.

Yeah sure nuff both sedans, both sporty, both V8s... but they share not much else really.

 

 

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're just a troll.  The German brands did a lot of hand wringing over adding AWD and a lot of purists bashed them for it. 

Where is BMW's or Mercedes' four wheel steering? I guess they're just too cheap to do it.

Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all make a car with 4 wheel steering.   And I don't know how much benefit it really has, because the really fast track cars tend not to use it, although the GT R does.  And Volvo, Tesla, Mercedes, Audi, etc all have a semi-autonomous drive system already.

I think what Cadillac is doing with the CT6 V-sport is great, it gets them in the game, but they haven't done anything revolutionary here, all the other guys already have a car like this.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

Why are their backseats so small?

Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

 

 

And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

Excellent post, 1,000 upvotes!

The new M5 is a legit monster, to beat the E63 in a straight line is quite the feat, although both cars have the same 0-150 mph time.  Luckily Mercedes has the AMG GT sedan, which should go faster than an E63, especially when the GT 73 comes.

[Drew Dowdell]

Correct. If this was a CT6-

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all make a car with 4 wheel steering.   And I don't know how much benefit it really has, because the really fast track cars tend not to use it, although the GT R does.  And Volvo, Tesla, Mercedes, Audi, etc all have a semi-autonomous drive system already.

I think what Cadillac is doing with the CT6 V-sport is great, it gets them in the game, but they haven't done anything revolutionary here, all the other guys already have a car like this.

Cadillac super cruise is better than Benz.

Benz only put 4 wheel steering on the GT AMG, they did it 2 years behind Cadillac, and they didn't put it on the E class because they're cheap. 4 wheel steering is more important on a big sedan than a GT size car.

Oh sure Benz "is coming out" with a 48 volts Eassist. You can go buy a 48+ volt Cadillac today. 

 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 @smk4565  a troll who can't even get basic facts right even when he has been reminded of them many many many multiple times.

More than 12 volt power? Welcome to a 2008 Malibu Hybrid. 48 volts is not some magic number... The Prius uses more than 48 volts as does...the Volt.  OMG wHY iS mERcedES so F@r bEhinD gm!!!n??!?

None of those run a turbo off electric, no car on sale right now does.  That is my point with the E-turbo, you need more volts to run it than what current cars have, and you can't buy an E-turbo car today because of that.  Unless you can afford to buy a Formula 1 car.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

The S-class had radar cruise control like 20 years ago, and the current car can do a lot of semi autonomous driving.  And Mercedes isn't cheap, they are building an all new factory for the next S-class which I am sure will continue to be the technological trailblazer it has always been.

Screw 40 miles, 300 miles is better:

And we are getting close, they have 3 battery factories already under construction so they don't have to buy batteries off someone else and face those Tesla-like supply chain problems. 

[oldshurst442]

Yeah...well...

My car company is known for PROSPERITY,  FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY!!!

 

Dont forget Rock-N-Roll!!!

 

YOUR car company is know for HOMICIDE, GENOCIDE and...and...SUICIDE...

 

[smk4565]

There was a good article on CNBC about Cadillac launching 10 new models in the coming years, and one analyst made a good point in that Cadillac shouldn't be trying to outdo Mercedes, but they need to bet targeting younger buyers and minorities.  And there is something to be said of that, Cadillac needs products that appeal to people under 40, something for "active lifestyle" people, etc.  

I have thought a lot that Cadillac needs to be going after people currently driving a Chevy, Chrysler, GMC, Buick, Acura, and Infiniti, VW, Mazda, etc.  Trying to conquest the Germans is a tough task, most Lincoln and Lexus sedan buyers or at an age where they are on their last car, so no sense to target them.

[balthazar]

Cadillac ISN'T trying to outdo MB, and they absolutely HAVE targeted younger buyers (obviously the analyst crossed-up those 2 & how they are accomplished). Also unfortunately glossed over by the anaylist is the fact that MB & Cadillac are within a few years of average buyer age. Sounds like a poorly researched article.

The other fallacy is that Cadillac (or any other brand) does not have to pull buyers away from other brands, only to capture those moving into the luxury segment from outside it. Since most luxury brands are above the ABA, that's where the younger buyers are coming from- its a lateral move from other luxury brands.

[Cmicasa the Great]

9 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

Why are their backseats so small?

Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

 

 

And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

 

Who gives a damn if they lie about their HP rating... I've gone up against last gen E63 and M5/6 with my last gen Vs and WON.. I've gone up against current M5 (not the AWD one) and E63AMG and WON.. Maybe I just learned to launch.. and realized that putting 38lbs of air in my tires was ridiculous.. but I did. 

Cadillac interiors are on par with Benz, except in the S-Class vs CT6.. which beats it slightly.. by maybe 10%, not 50.. but alas.. one looks at the price difference and see's the reason. OH!!! Cadillac should sell for less.. but spend more on its interior??? Makes sense

Oh.. and EFF the backseat in any car.. eff I care about people riding in the back.. but in this case.. the CT6 has pretty generous seat space

And I wasn't comparing the M5 to the CT6 VSport.. my point of bringing it up was the inclusion of AWD and the comparable (probable) similar weights. Not to mention the HP/Torque ratings.

[balthazar]

8 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

I don't think the M5 and CT6 Vsport are really direct competitors. Yeah sure nuff both sedans, both sporty, both V8s... but they share not much else really.

 

Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

[Robert Hall]

The CTS is more the 5-series competitor...about the same size. 

[balthazar]

Consumers certainly could go either way here. But to say they're 'really not' competitors- that I can't see.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

Who gives a damn if they lie about their HP rating... I've gone up against last gen E63 and M5/6 with my last gen Vs and WON.. I've gone up against current M5 (not the AWD one) and E63AMG and WON.. Maybe I just learned to launch.. and realized that putting 38lbs of air in my tires was ridiculous.. but I did. 

Cadillac interiors are on par with Benz, except in the S-Class vs CT6.. which beats it slightly.. by maybe 10%, not 50.. but alas.. one looks at the price difference and see's the reason. OH!!! Cadillac should sell for less.. but spend more on its interior??? Makes sense

Oh.. and EFF the backseat in any car.. eff I care about people riding in the back.. but in this case.. the CT6 has pretty generous seat space

And I wasn't comparing the M5 to the CT6 VSport.. my point of bringing it up was the inclusion of AWD and the comparable (probable) similar weights. Not to mention the HP/Torque ratings.

The last gen E63 switched to AWD with the mid-cycle refresh, it would be a current CTS-V.  2013 and older would spin tire and be slower off the line.

Car and Driver said the CTS has a "grim interior" and said "Cadillac's interior designers apparently thought they were working on a Chevrolet."  ATS and CTS interiors are no where near Audi or Mercedes.

AWD and 10 gears should make this CT6 launch quite fast though.  And I don't think Cadillac should sell for less, $130k is about where a CT6 V-sport should be priced.

[smk4565]

35 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

The 5-series still has the 550i V8, that has 450ish hp.  But if the CT6 competes with a 5-series, why is the CTS here?  Really the CTS should have the CT6 interior and engine trims, and cost $52k for the 4-banger go to $130k for V-series.   Or basically cut 10 inches in length off the CT6 and there is your new 5-series and E-class competitor.  Put the Escala above that.

[balthazar]

'cut 10 inches off' - nonononoNO!
Everyone wants Cadillac to 'stop trying to be a BMW'... then here it is: fuck matching exact dimensions. Cadillacs should be larger, this one is larger. Lock-stepping is why the German trio are so interchangeable. Cadillac should stand apart. The size is perfect for the segment.

And Cadillac here is providing multiple options for someone considering a 5-series; a slightly smaller lighter CTS or a slightly larger CT6 (which is also a viable option to the 7 in many consumer's books).

[smk4565]

Cadillac needs a good mid-size product though, if they take everything about CT6 and chop down a foot in length and make it CT5, they'd be close.   Using the engines, transmission, interior, super cruise, etc.

[Cmicasa the Great]

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

 

17 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The CTS is more the 5-series competitor...about the same size. 

I see both of U as correct.. but I also throw that same logic over at the 5 Series and 7 Series... They are even on the same platform.. as the CT6 and CT5 will most likely be soon. How much U wanna bet that the legroom between the CT5 and CT6 ends up similar as well.. with the exterior dimensions being the true differentiation? I can see the CT6 as a 6 Series type vehicle once 2020 hits.. and the intro of the Escala (CT8) which got the green-light

CT3, ATS replacement with ATS-L dimensions.. CT5 current exterior dimensions of CTS but interior sized similar in the rear like the , CT6, and then CT8 in 2020

 

 

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The last gen E63 switched to AWD with the mid-cycle refresh, it would be a current CTS-V.  2013 and older would spin tire and be slower off the line.

Car and Driver said the CTS has a "grim interior" and said "Cadillac's interior designers apparently thought they were working on a Chevrolet."  ATS and CTS interiors are no where near Audi or Mercedes.

AWD and 10 gears should make this CT6 launch quite fast though.  And I don't think Cadillac should sell for less, $130k is about where a CT6 V-sport should be priced.

ATS no.. CTS U are smokin the same crack they are. The ironic part about the Chevy comment is that in truth.. many of Benz's interiors are pretty much on par with the mainstream brand, I'd say on the same level as the LaX and Enclave if U really want to shore it up. U are truly a fanboi if U can't see that. The new E-Class' interior is nothing great at all.. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Still blows my mind that the ct6 is larger on Omega, yet still only 5lbs heavier. GREAT ENGINEERING

 

[balthazar]

63/64 are great track numbers- that's Wide Track Pontiac territory. WOuld like to see the width grow by 2 inches, tho 74 is in no way narrow.
Escala would sit pretty at 77" wide, 215" long, 128" WB, 65/66 track.

[David]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac needs a good mid-size product though, if they take everything about CT6 and chop down a foot in length and make it CT5, they'd be close.   Using the engines, transmission, interior, super cruise, etc.

Who is to say that the CT5 is not being built on the same Platform already as the CT6. 

Common sense is to use one universal platform for the car line. They do it in China already.

[smk4565]

So does Cadillac need 3 sedans or 4?  We know they have CT5 in mid-size and something small in the works.   Then we have CT6 and Escala do they need 2 full size sedans when full size sedans are a tough sell?

We also don't yet know how they will position them, CT5 could be mid-size car for C-class and 3-series money.  Johan said the small car will compete on price with an A3 or 1-series.  Where should they price these possible 4 sedans, also considering the track record of Cadillac sedan sales in price points over $60k.

[David]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So does Cadillac need 3 sedans or 4?  We know they have CT5 in mid-size and something small in the works.   Then we have CT6 and Escala do they need 2 full size sedans when full size sedans are a tough sell?

We also don't yet know how they will position them, CT5 could be mid-size car for C-class and 3-series money.  Johan said the small car will compete on price with an A3 or 1-series.  Where should they price these possible 4 sedans, also considering the track record of Cadillac sedan sales in price points over $60k.

Just as MB depends on Europe eating up all the E-Class as Taxis and America to over pay on so called Luxury auto's, Cadillac has China and as such, China will be a bigger market as we all know than the US now. China is Key and if China can support 4 or 5 cars, then having them here is just a by product and bonus to us.

[smk4565]

23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Just as MB depends on Europe eating up all the E-Class as Taxis and America to over pay on so called Luxury auto's, Cadillac has China and as such, China will be a bigger market as we all know than the US now. China is Key and if China can support 4 or 5 cars, then having them here is just a by product and bonus to us.

China is already a bigger market than the USA.  Audi, BMW and Mercedes all sell over 550,000 cars a year in China, they have a commanding lead over Cadillac who sold 175,000 cars in China in 2017.   Cadillac has about 350,000 global sales, they could support 4 sedans if there is a lot of commonality in them from a production standpoint.  

[balthazar]

They DO support 4 sedans on 350K units, not "could".

[Cmicasa the Great]

I always love how he pits Benz /Audi sales numbers in China against Cadillac's with no mention that Mercedes/Audi are also competing with Buick in China

 

[smk4565]

15 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I always love how he pits Benz /Audi sales numbers in China against Cadillac's with no mention that Mercedes/Audi are also competing with Buick in China

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Last year Buick sold 421,000 Excelle's which is a rebadged Opel Astra, Previously the Excell was a rebadged Daewoo Nubira.  The Excelle is 1/3 of Buick's China market sales and starts at $17k.  The Envision ($34,000) is their #2 seller followed by the $23,000 Verano.   Oh yeah, Mercedes is worried about that that price point.

Keep in mind a Mercedes CLA200 starts at $43,000 in Chinese pricing.   The E-class starts at $70,000 there and is their #2 seller after the C-class.  So I don't think Mercedes cares how many Vauxhall/Opel Astras are sold in Europe or China.

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Last year Buick sold 421,000 Excelle's which is a rebadged Opel Astra, Previously the Excell was a rebadged Daewoo Nubira.  The Excelle is 1/3 of Buick's China market sales and starts at $17k.  The Envision ($34,000) is their #2 seller followed by the $23,000 Verano.   Oh yeah, Mercedes is worried about that that price point.

Keep in mind a Mercedes CLA200 starts at $43,000 in Chinese pricing.   The E-class starts at $70,000 there and is their #2 seller after the C-class.  So I don't think Mercedes cares how many Vauxhall/Opel Astras are sold in Europe or China.

No.. I think they care about PROFIT.. and Buick.. even in China, with Chinese rules.. is one of the most profitable makes on the road son son.. U like to go on sales numbers for these cars, but fail to see the big picture.

[ccap41]

On 3/24/2018 at 9:56 AM, smk4565 said:

Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

RAM 1500 has a 48 volt system. 

[smk4565]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

RAM 1500 has a 48 volt system. 

The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

They have it for the 5.7L also. 

[ccap41]

Who's going to be first, Mercedes or Infiniti? 

F1 hybrid system

[Drew Dowdell]

On 3/26/2018 at 11:40 AM, smk4565 said:

The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

So maybe we can get you to adjust your trolling.  Instead of going on and on about voltage, which every manufacturer is capable of, just talk about the turbo.   I'm fine giving MB that win of being first.  Cadillac was the first with night vision, air bags, electric starter, variable displacement, heads up display, engine self-preservation, twin-turbo/variable displacement/start-stop all in the same engine, they'll have a V8 that can run on as few as 2 cylinders before MB will, the list goes on.  Mercedes has plenty of firsts as well, but until you can give credit where it is due and appropriate, you are still simply a troll. 

Mercedes' radar cruise is not Super Cruise. None of MB's vehicles are handsfree like Cadillac Super Cruise is. 

[smk4565]

The E-class and S-class can do hands free but it makes you touch the wheel every 30 seconds which I think is more of the lawyers protecting themselves.  But then it isn’t really “hands free” as Cadillac is so that in that respect advantage Cadillac.  But Super Cruise can’t change lanes unassisted and Mercedes can change lanes without touching the wheel.  Both are level 2 systems.

The Audi A8 is the only production car with a level 3 system, so it actually has the best one on the market but no on buys the A8, so how much do these things move the needle.