New York 2019: Cadillac CT5 to Debut: Comments

[David]

7 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So if the CT5 is to be a tweeter, then the CT4 might be between the 2 and 3/4 series in size.  Curious. 

I honestly hope this is not the case, I would rather they go on the bigger size than scale down.

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I honestly hope this is not the case, I would rather they go on the bigger size than scale down.

Yes, I see no point in downsizing. 

[oldshurst442]

aye yai yai

That CT4...

 

People complained about the ATS' lack of rear legroom space.  So...how does Cadillac fix that with an even smaller car than the ATS?  Maybe its smaller than the ATS? 

But how can it be a tad bigger than the ATS when the CT5 is believed to be a tad bigger than the ATS? 

I just dont buy into small Cadillacs. Dont like 'em. Dont want 'em! 

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

ATS is 184 inches long. It is 73 inches wide. I do not think this new CT5 will be that small.  

[A Horse With No Name]

Deleted my earlier comments. Was in a horrible mood....upon further reflection I actually really like this.

[David]

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Deleted my earlier comments. Was in a horrible mood....upon further reflection I actually really like this.

Glad that Whiskey 🥃 is working my friend or was it a boiler maker? 🤔  🍺

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Deleted my earlier comments. Was in a horrible mood....upon further reflection I actually really like this.

Its really not that bad looking of a car.  The front and back are almost....almost...stunning.  Especially in that cherry red colour. 

The interior promises to be worthy of a Cadillac car. So...we are just a bunch of whiny little pansies bitchin' about nothing! 

Yes. The profile seems to look like a new Accord. The new Accord, to those who like sloping, fastback styling sedans, is quite striking and quite unique and quite pleasant to look at. The profile and silhouette only. Because the front and back of the Accord leaves a lot to be desired. I like it, but its ugly.  But having that kind of sloping fastback resemble a Honda is not a bad feature. To those who like that kind of thing.  Its just that I, want MORE for Cadillac.  I DEMAND excellence for Cadillac as I hold Cadillac in very high regard. 

For me, its a shame that the stylists and designers for Cadillac dont seem to have that kind of pride that I hold for Cadillac, it seems.

 

[smk4565]

38 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So if the CT5 is to be a tweeter, then the CT4 might be between the 2 and 3/4 series in size.  Curious. 

Which A3/A-class size cars don't have a lot of volume to begin with, those are mostly in existence for Europe.  Cadillac buyers think the ATS is small, I don't know why they would go smaller, at a time when sedans are not in demand.

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Which A3/A-class size cars don't have a lot of volume to begin with, those are mostly in existence for Europe.  Cadillac buyers think the ATS is small, I don't know why they would go smaller, at a time when sedans are not in demand.

Yup.

Maybe the CT4  is more geared to be sold in China?  And if they sell a dozen units here, well so be it? 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Glad that Whiskey 🥃 is working my friend or was it a boiler maker? 🤔  🍺

A big bowl of mint chocolate chip ice cream actually. Glad to see the powertrain choices here.

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Which A3/A-class size cars don't have a lot of volume to begin with, those are mostly in existence for Europe.  Cadillac buyers think the ATS is small, I don't know why they would go smaller, at a time when sedans are not in demand.

And considering with each new generation, the standard bearer 3-series gets larger..as does the C-class and A4 I believe.  Bigger and heavier is the norm for generational redesigns.

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yup.

Maybe the CT4  is more geared to be sold in China?  And if they sell a dozen units here, well so be it? 

 

Could be..since GM has given up on Europe, China would make sense as a target for sedans..but in China they would need a long wheelbase version.

It's fun to speculate, though...the reality of the truth (or the truth of the reality) shall become apparent in due time...

Edited March 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[frogger]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes. The profile seems to look like a new Accord. The new Accord, to those who like sloping, fastback styling sedans, is quite striking and quite unique and quite pleasant to look at. The profile and silhouette only. Because the front and back of the Accord leaves a lot to be desired. I like it, but its ugly.  But having that kind of sloping fastback resemble a Honda is not a bad feature. To those who like that kind of thing.  Its just that I, want MORE for Cadillac.  I DEMAND excellence for Cadillac as I hold Cadillac in very high regard. 

For me, its a shame that the stylists and designers for Cadillac dont seem to have that kind of pride that I hold for Cadillac, it seems.

 

I'd rather it evoked thoughts of something like an S5 Sport back if it was ditching the Art and Science lines and going the fastback route than an Accord..

 

 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

I'd rather it evoked thoughts of something like an S5 Sport back if it was ditching the Art and Science lines and going the fastback route than an Accord..

 

 

 

And it looks like you would be correct in your logic. As the CT5 would be the A5/S5's sportback's competitor.

But you got to admit, the CT5 comes off more like an Accord than an S5 sportback.

And I think it all comes down to that retarded Hofmeister kink...which I will state again...I like it. 

 

I also think that the hood of the CT5 looks to be a tad frumpy. Especially as compared to the S5. The S5 has the illusion of the front end to be longer than it actually is. Which accentuates the timeless design of a long hood/short deck theme.

The CT5 does not pull that look off.

The Escala has it, but the Escala is also a longer car with a much longer wheel base.

The Accord also pulls off the long hood/short deck theme quite nicely too. Maybe on the CT5, the picture is too dark and we lose that effect?  We should all see it in person before we continue to crucify the CT5...

 

[David]

51 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Its really not that bad looking of a car.  The front and back are almost....almost...stunning.  Especially in that cherry red colour. 

The interior promises to be worthy of a Cadillac car. So...we are just a bunch of whiny little pansies bitchin' about nothing! 

Totally agree on the color comment.

No we are not pansies bitchin, that back section from B to C pillar is terrible, but the rest of the auto is awesome enough to deal with that flaw.

Life is not perfect, eat some chocolate and drink your wine and enjoy the majority of what we can!

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

FWD cars usually have more interior space and a shorter wheelbase than a RWD car of the same overall length.  Just the nature of FWD vs RWD packaging in general. 

CLA had same overall length as ATS, with 3" less WB but 9" less legroom (FWD vs. RWD), IIRC. It's where the whole 'ATS is unliveable' claim falls apart.

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

CLA had same overall length as ATS, with 3" less WB but 9" less legroom (FWD vs. RWD), IIRC. It's where the whole 'ATS is unliveable' claim falls apart.

Note I said 'usually', not 'always'.   There are plenty of counter examples where FWD cars have bigger interiors yet shorter wheelbases than similarly sized RWD cars because they have more of the interior within the wheelbase because of the transverse layout.  (I feel dirty pointing out a positive aspect of FWD/transverse). 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

40 minutes ago, balthazar said:

CLA had same overall length as ATS, with 3" less WB but 9" less legroom (FWD vs. RWD), IIRC. It's where the whole 'ATS is unliveable' claim falls apart.

But that seems to have been fixed.  the A-class sedan has 41.8 inches of legroom in front and 33.9 inches in the rear.  ATS sedan has 42.5 inches in front and 33.5 in the rear.  So the ATS's total legroom is .3 inches more than the A-class which is smaller.

I don't think the ATS is too small necessarily, but most Cadillac buyers aren't looking for a car that small.  But the ATS has other issues other than size that stopped it from selling.

[balthazar]

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But that seems to have been fixed.  the A-class sedan has 41.8 inches of legroom in front and 33.9 inches in the rear.  ATS sedan has 42.5 inches in front and 33.5 in the rear.  So the ATS's total legroom is .3 inches more than the A-class which is smaller.

Wait- so MB redesigned/renamed the CLA and gave it the same, "unliveable" rear leg room?? Were they benchmarking the outgoing ATS??

[smk4565]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Wait- so MB redesigned/renamed the CLA and gave it the same, "unliveable" rear leg room?? Were they benchmarking the outgoing ATS??

The C-class is closer in size to the ATS.  The A-class is 179 inches long.    If CT4 is smaller than the ATS, then they are going to have to go under 180 inches in length, and still have the same interior dimensions of the current ATS with shrinking the exterior, seems like a tall order for GM design.

I don't think the CT5 will be a C-class competitor, nor do I think CT4 will be smaller than the ATS.  And it probably doesn't matter because there is almost no market demand for Cadillac sedans.  Maybe in China there is some demand, but not much in the USA, and zero in Europe or other parts of the world.  

Probably what they should do is price the CT5 at $39,995 and play the value leader game.  It is their only hope.

[Robert Hall]

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But that seems to have been fixed.  the A-class sedan has 41.8 inches of legroom in front and 33.9 inches in the rear.  ATS sedan has 42.5 inches in front and 33.5 in the rear.  So the ATS's total legroom is .3 inches more than the A-class which is smaller.

I don't think the ATS is too small necessarily, but most Cadillac buyers aren't looking for a car that small.  But the ATS has other issues other than size that stopped it from selling.

I wonder how the new CLA compares to the first gen.  It is slightly larger.  

[balthazar]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The C-class is closer in size to the ATS.

Pay attention, Bunky. I mentioned 2 identical-sized sedans of 183" : CLA & ATS sedans. Total legroom was (IIRC) 9 inches apart- terrible packaging by mercedes. Now, the newer, name-changed entry car is the 'a-class', yet it's rear legroom is just as bad as the ATS's supposed was, and the ATS came out in 2013.

[Robert Hall]

The A-class is intended to compete with other small-compact entry lux sedans like the Audi A3.  The CLA continues ( 2nd gen in 2020) as the ‘coupe’ variation.  

The ATS is in the larger compact niche w/ the C-class, 3 series, A4, etc.  Where the CT4 and CT5 line up is TBD. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Problem is/was; the CLA sedan was also in the 3-series / c-class larger compact niche. I think that's why MB shrunk the a-class a bit.

Regardless of market intentions, the initial comment I made was addressing interior vs. exterior dimensions.

[Cmicasa the Great]

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Really? I think it looks very 3-series sized. 

Its similar in size to the current 5 series.. I think they probably dropped the size a few inches to 194-195 inches. It's currently (CTS) 195.5, while the 5Series is 194.6. So yeah.. I could see that. I think what U are gonna see is a tweener pricing strategy more than anything else.. but the escalated trims will raise the prices to the same level as the German competition. My guess still is that the CT5 is going to be priced like the now $40K BMW 330i, but obviously larger.. SO I figure starting around $45K with the 2.0LTT, which is still $8K less than the 530i. Most don't realize that is what is done with the CT6 and XT5 already. A CT6 starts out at $51K, but in luxury trim where in truth the 7series, for instance, doesn't even have a competitor (4cylinder engine) .. but once U get to the level where a 740i starts... the CT6 Sport 3.0LTT swoops in with a price point that isn't far behind at $70K.. and if U go Platinum.. it is right on top of the 740 at about $88K.

I think the confusion comes because there is an idea that the A Class/CLA and A3 are the proper spots for compact luxos and the segment leader, 3Series has now grown to almost previous gen Camry size.

 

To me the CT5 is a nice departure.. that may flip the script and bring in new buyers that were turned off by the still perceived snooty look of even the current CTS. Lets face it.. as beautiful as it is, the GEN3, it still comes off as more of an STS, or mature Mid-Size than it does 5Series, boring but Camry-ish look for millennial. This CT5 looks genuinely sport in both forms

[David]

53 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its similar in size to the current 5 series.. I think they probably dropped the size a few inches to 194-195 inches. It's currently (CTS) 195.5, while the 5Series is 194.6. So yeah.. I could see that. I think what U are gonna see is a tweener pricing strategy more than anything else.. but the escalated trims will raise the prices to the same level as the German competition. My guess still is that the CT5 is going to be priced like the now $40K BMW 330i, but obviously larger.. SO I figure starting around $45K with the 2.0LTT, which is still $8K less than the 530i. Most don't realize that is what is done with the CT6 and XT5 already. A CT6 starts out at $51K, but in luxury trim where in truth the 7series, for instance, doesn't even have a competitor (4cylinder engine) .. but once U get to the level where a 740i starts... the CT6 Sport 3.0LTT swoops in with a price point that isn't far behind at $70K.. and if U go Platinum.. it is right on top of the 740 at about $88K.

I think the confusion comes because there is an idea that the A Class/CLA and A3 are the proper spots for compact luxos and the segment leader, 3Series has now grown to almost previous gen Camry size.

 

To me the CT5 is a nice departure.. that may flip the script and bring in new buyers that were turned off by the still perceived snooty look of even the current CTS. Lets face it.. as beautiful as it is, the GEN3, it still comes off as more of an STS, or mature Mid-Size than it does 5Series, boring but Camry-ish look for millennial. This CT5 looks genuinely sport in both forms

The car is growing on me more and more, but then I always liked the front half and the rear end. Just that weird part by the C pillar, but I do agree it will be a moot point once you tint those damn rear windows and realistically all of them. Still think that redish color is the best so far on this sedan.