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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

So will a CT4 cost less than an XT4?  SUV’s usually cost more than similar size sedans.  I have to imagine CT5 starts around $40k.

*Pricing has yet to be announced.

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10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

*Pricing has yet to be announced.

I know, but if a CT6 starts at $50k, it has to be less than that.  And GM has some crazy pricing on some product, but even they are not foolish enough to price the CT5 on par with an E-class.  And the CT6 is cheaper than an XT6.  CT5 could cost less than XT5.

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25 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac is on record saying that there is a CT4 coming. It's only going to be an ATS replacement in price. 

It gets 38mpg highway without being a hybrid and they give you 4 more powerful engine choices if 0-60 is your priority over fuel economy. 

sheesh.... you get choices and then complain about them. 

So... U see why I've gotten a bad rep around here now? Craziness people come up with to complain about.

I wouldn't buy the 2.0L. but I enjoy the fact that they at least offer the choice. I see why they downgraded in power too.  Even from a marketing standpoint it made very little sense to go and buy a 3.6L with 321HP/275ft-ib before when the 2.0L was 272HP/260ft-lb.. . NOW.. look at the distance. Perfect. And I see a VSport being in the 470-500 range with a VSeries in the 600s. AWD at that. 

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19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I know, but if a CT6 starts at $50k, it has to be less than that.  And GM has some crazy pricing on some product, but even they are not foolish enough to price the CT5 on par with an E-class.  And the CT6 is cheaper than an XT6.  CT5 could cost less than XT5.

CAdillac is doing what it wants now with pricing. Fine with me as they seem to be putting out an entry level vehicle with a lessor than German car price.. then trimming it upward to the point that it is on par with said German vehicle. Look right at the CT6. That car starts off with a base engine that not even available with the 7Series, then by the time the 740i is matched par for par.. its almost spot on in pricing. In fact BMW would have to have a 720i on sale in the US to have a similar vehicle. Bottom line.. unless U are just a person who want to spend more for silly reasons.. the CT6 is not only a better value, but most people who compare the CT6 to the 7Series will most likely say the CT6 was more expensive if they are not already in the know.

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac is on record saying that there is a CT4 coming. It's only going to be an ATS replacement in price. 

It gets 38mpg highway without being a hybrid and they give you 4 more powerful engine choices if 0-60 is your priority over fuel economy. 

sheesh.... you get choices and then complain about them. 

point me to the '38 mpg highway'.  What did i miss...... XT4 gets 24/30, no way the highway goes up to 38 from the XT4 with the same powertrain.  Malibu with CVT and 400 pounds less and smaller engine only can manage 36 mpg highway.  10 speed tranny not gonna net 38 mpg highway on RWD or AWD version.  Cadillac really should have introduced this motor in this car with at least the same specs as the older 2.0.

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5 minutes ago, regfootball said:

point me to the '38 mpg highway'.  What did i miss...... XT4 gets 24/30, no way the highway goes up to 38 from the XT4 with the same powertrain.  Malibu with CVT and 400 pounds less and smaller engine only can manage 36 mpg highway.  10 speed tranny not gonna net 38 mpg highway on RWD or AWD version.  Cadillac really should have introduced this motor in this car with at least the same specs as the older 2.0.

Rated for 24/34. Got 23.5/38.5 

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/ct6/2019/2019-cadillac-ct6-20-first-test-review/

The Malibu's engine doesn't shut down to 2 cylinders during highway cruise.... the CT6 does. 

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The epa ratings for highway for CT5 (AWD) are not going to be 38. And for AWD probably not even 34. And I do love mpg but Lux marque cars should be about performance too. Even the most base bmw 3 with crap HP ratings will do a sub 6 0-60. The XT4 and CT6 with the same engine were over 7 seconds, more like 7.5. That’s good for a Chevy. The 14-19 CTS cracked sub 6 seconds I believe. To go from 6 seconds to 7.5 for the ‘sport sedan’ in your stable is not good for showroom traffic or sales. 

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30 minutes ago, regfootball said:

The epa ratings for highway for CT5 (AWD) are not going to be 38. And for AWD probably not even 34. And I do love mpg but Lux marque cars should be about performance too. Even the most base bmw 3 with crap HP ratings will do a sub 6 0-60. The XT4 and CT6 with the same engine were over 7 seconds, more like 7.5. That’s good for a Chevy. The 14-19 CTS cracked sub 6 seconds I believe. To go from 6 seconds to 7.5 for the ‘sport sedan’ in your stable is not good for showroom traffic or sales. 

The CT5 is larger than a 3 series. It is a 5 series competitor. 

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6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The CT5 is larger than a 3 series. It is a 5 series competitor. 

It is 5-series size, but I was reading some rumors that it is 3-series price.  Which I think is actually a good strategy, the first CTS was 5-series size for 3-series money and that was the only CTS that was a strong seller.  The 5-series costs more than a CT6, so they can't price the CT5 like a 5-series.

43 minutes ago, regfootball said:

The epa ratings for highway for CT5 (AWD) are not going to be 38. And for AWD probably not even 34. And I do love mpg but Lux marque cars should be about performance too. Even the most base bmw 3 with crap HP ratings will do a sub 6 0-60. The XT4 and CT6 with the same engine were over 7 seconds, more like 7.5. That’s good for a Chevy. The 14-19 CTS cracked sub 6 seconds I believe. To go from 6 seconds to 7.5 for the ‘sport sedan’ in your stable is not good for showroom traffic or sales. 

The new 330i, which I guess isn't the cheapest model but is a turbo 4 model does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.  The 340i adds another 130 hp, so I have to believe that is doing it in near 4 seconds.  Which is crazy because that was M3 fast like 5-10 years ago.

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39 minutes ago, regfootball said:

To go from 6 seconds to 7.5 for the ‘sport sedan’ in your stable is not good for showroom traffic or sales. 

You think a 335 HP, 10-spd, 3660 lbs car is going to do 0-60 in 7.5 sec???
Do you believe the BMW 330i sedan stifles showroom traffic/sales of the M3 sedan?
 

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I don't think the 4-cylinder 0-60 time matters too much on a CT5 or 5-series, as long as the car feels like it has enough power in regular driving.  The people buying the 4-cylinder are not in any hurry to get anywhere.  There is a 6-cylinder if they do want power, I'd be more concerned with V6 acceleration because that is what the enthusiasts and bigger spenders will compare.  

Interior quality, technology and refinement and ride quality are going to matter.  Cadillac has to win those daily driver categories that it rarely wins vs the Germans.

Here's and A6 interior, gotta beat that:

spacer.png

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Here's and A6 interior, gotta beat that:

spacer.png

CT5 already beats this, this is the same blah interior you have accused others of having and now you hold it up as a yard stick of gotta beat this? 🙄

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15 minutes ago, dfelt said:

CT5 already beats this, this is the same blah interior you have accused others of having and now you hold it up as a yard stick of gotta beat this? 🙄

The Audi is indeed nothing special and the CT5 already matches up quite well against it. Of course, you should consider the source of the pic posted lol. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

It is 5-series size, but I was reading some rumors that it is 3-series price.  Which I think is actually a good strategy, the first CTS was 5-series size for 3-series money and that was the only CTS that was a strong seller.  The 5-series costs more than a CT6, so they can't price the CT5 like a 5-series.

The new 330i, which I guess isn't the cheapest model but is a turbo 4 model does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.  The 340i adds another 130 hp, so I have to believe that is doing it in near 4 seconds.  Which is crazy because that was M3 fast like 5-10 years ago.

Never said anything about price, only the size. It’s obvious that will cost less than the 5 series because all German cars are overpriced to begin with. 

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9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is 5-series size, but I was reading some rumors that it is 3-series price.  Which I think is actually a good strategy, the first CTS was 5-series size for 3-series money and that was the only CTS that was a strong seller.  The 5-series costs more than a CT6, so they can't price the CT5 like a 5-series.

The new 330i, which I guess isn't the cheapest model but is a turbo 4 model does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.  The 340i adds another 130 hp, so I have to believe that is doing it in near 4 seconds.  Which is crazy because that was M3 fast like 5-10 years ago.

First.. even on Caddy's site.. and every dealer I've talked to.. the CT6 2.0L is a ghost. Its like finding the Snow Leopard of the Himalayas.  I'm telling U I've never seen one ever.  I did a search and there are literally 7 in the whole country.. and 2 of them are priced higher than $55K. Cadillac's own sit shows this:

iIFDE3D.jpg

 

But even more to purpose.. WHAT DOES IT MATTER?  U know damn good and well that the CT6 is a 7Series competitor.. the CT5 is a 5Series competitor.. and the upcoming CT4 is a 3Series competitor. Its fact.. price be damned. U are only trying to use the argument to belittle a vehicle versus the Germans.. The Guilia is priced less than the 3Series are U telling me they don't compete? So does the Jag XE and Lexus IS. The Germans, as already mentioned are over priced.. and its nothing ostentatious about it. Its actually sad that someone would use being over-charged as a defending point.

"Hey look.. even though your car is full of the same tech, nicer looks, as nice interior, better performance... my car is better than your car because I let the BMW sales guy take me in the back room and *** me down for 30 minutes, no grease. Did I mention he was from Stuttgart? "

 

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I'd say that based on pics.. Cadillac has matched them. Interesting tho is that the other two Germans are now behind in terms of interiors is this interior is as nice as it looks in pre-production

2019-audi-a6.jpg

2020-Cadillac-CT5-Premium-24.jpg?impolicnew-2019-bmw-5_series-530eiperformancepl348440ef0934ee74992c8dfbea6aafd0x.jpg?im

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10 hours ago, regfootball said:

The epa ratings for highway for CT5 (AWD) are not going to be 38. And for AWD probably not even 34. And I do love mpg but Lux marque cars should be about performance too. Even the most base bmw 3 with crap HP ratings will do a sub 6 0-60. The XT4 and CT6 with the same engine were over 7 seconds, more like 7.5. That’s good for a Chevy. The 14-19 CTS cracked sub 6 seconds I believe. To go from 6 seconds to 7.5 for the ‘sport sedan’ in your stable is not good for showroom traffic or sales. 

So your thought is to not have the engine at all because of 0-60 times.. which isn't the point of the engine at all? Look.. the 2.0L is in place as a replacement to the CT6-Hybrid. Where Drew is getting the fuel economy numbers is MT:

Quote

There is a fuel economy payoff, though; our friends at EQUA Real MPG achieved 23.5/38.5 mpg city/highway during their tests. That's a smidge lower in the city but significantly higher on the highway versus the EPA's official 24/34 mpg rating.

MT

If U are in it for 0-60 times.. there is literally 3/4 other engines now available that go under 5.5 seconds. 

The CT5 will be lighter. Thus have better performance with similar drivelines. 

That actually brings me to another thought tho. Since the CT5 is not getting the NA 3.6L.. wouldn't it make sense that the CT6 will also lose the NA 3.6L in favor of the much torquier 3.0LTT tune at 335HP/400ft-lb or torque? Personally.. I think this is a sweet time for the 3.0L to be tuned the way Caddy wants and the engine line-up to go:

2.0L TT -237-hp/258-lb-ft

3.0L TT-  335-hp to 404 hp /400-lb-ft

4.2LTT - 500-hp/553-lb-ft

4.2LTT - 550-hp/627-lb-ft

I said this basically the same way in

December  https://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/topic/91133-a-2018-cadillac-ct6-premium-luxury-wsuper-cruise-review/

The XT4,5,6 would also be pretty sweet with that initial 3.0LTT set-up 

 

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WOW that shinny fake wood trim in the Benz is blinding. :lol2:

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16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It gets 38mpg highway without being a hybrid and they give you 4 more powerful engine choices if 0-60 is your priority over fuel economy. 

sheesh.... you get choices and then complain about them. 

There are 5 powertrains for this already? What are all of them? 

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

So will a CT4 cost less than an XT4?  SUV’s usually cost more than similar size sedans.  I have to imagine CT5 starts around $40k.

My Personal feelings are that it will be another tweener and probably not be cheaper than the XT4 as it'll be larger than ATS but smaller than CTS(kind of obvious). 

Maybe the CT4 will be small but I wouldn't think they'd want to leave that large of a gap in size but only one "number" apart(CT4 -> CT5).

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4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

First.. even on Caddy's site.. and every dealer I've talked to.. the CT6 2.0L is a ghost. Its like finding the Snow Leopard of the Himalayas.  I'm telling U I've never seen one ever.  I did a search and there are literally 7 in the whole country.. and 2 of them are priced higher than $55K. Cadillac's own sit shows this:

iIFDE3D.jpg

 

But even more to purpose.. WHAT DOES IT MATTER?  U know damn good and well that the CT6 is a 7Series competitor.. the CT5 is a 5Series competitor.. and the upcoming CT4 is a 3Series competitor. Its fact.. price be damned. U are only trying to use the argument to belittle a vehicle versus the Germans.. The Guilia is priced less than the 3Series are U telling me they don't compete? So does the Jag XE and Lexus IS. The Germans, as already mentioned are over priced.. and its nothing ostentatious about it. Its actually sad that someone would use being over-charged as a defending point.

"Hey look.. even though your car is full of the same tech, nicer looks, as nice interior, better performance... my car is better than your car because I let the BMW sales guy take me in the back room and *** me down for 30 minutes, no grease. Did I mention he was from Stuttgart? "

 

If the theory that the CT6 was better than a 7-series is correct, then why can BMW get $130,000 for an M5, more than what any Cadillac costs and $175,000+ for a 760.  Is Cadillac’s image that bad that they have to give that much in MSRP and profit mating to BMW?

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2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

There are 5 powertrains for this already? What are all of them? 

My Personal feelings are that it will be another tweener and probably not be cheaper than the XT4 as it'll be larger than ATS but smaller than CTS(kind of obvious). 

Maybe the CT4 will be small but I wouldn't think they'd want to leave that large of a gap in size but only one "number" apart(CT4 -> CT5).

XT4 is said to be almost spot in in actual size to the ATS. The wheelbase is most likely increased as they perform the same type of upsizing in key areas that they did for the CT5. The ENTRY price is where everyone IS FOCUSING, when actual evidence shows that those entry prices are few and far between, especially when ATPs are where they are. Remember that the CTS, despite starting at $46K had an ATP of over or around $60K not counting Vseries in those numbers either. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

That interior looks awesome. 

It is a very nice interior, but that does not negate the apparent fact that the CT5 has now equaled them in terms of looks and features. To be honest, the CTS was on par with the previous A6 too except in small areas that only interior fondlers sought out.. Like under the seat. 😂

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15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If the theory that the CT6 was better than a 7-series is correct, then why can BMW get $130,000 for an M5, more than what any Cadillac costs and $175,000+ for a 760.  Is Cadillac’s image that bad that they have to give that much in MSRP and profit mating to BMW?

First.. What about "the Germans overcharge" do U not get? Second.. Cadillac is fully capable of charging obscene prices too. Are U not also aware that the Escalade goes for $45K over a Tahoe.. The XTS when for $20K over an Impala? 

My CTS-V costs $104K in 2016.  If they had of had AWD in it they could have charged $10K more I bet.. Just because then they would have had more to equal the M5. And I won't even get into the fact that last I checked the CTS-V outsold the M5 and E63amg. So drop cost, get more sales.. Only U see them as better because the Germans are able to fukk U with no lube and make U like it. Weird if U ask me... Hell even if U don't. 

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5 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

First.. What about "the Germans overcharge" do U not get? Second.. Cadillac is fully capable of charging obscene prices too. Are U not also aware that the Escalade goes for $45K over a Tahoe.. The XTS when for $20K over an Impala? 

My CTS-V costs $104K in 2016.  If they had of had AWD in it they could have charged $10K more I bet.. Just because then they would have had more to equal the M5. And I won't even get into the fact that last I checked the CTS-V outsold the M5 and E63amg. So drop cost, get more sales.. Only U see them as better because the Germans are able to fukk U with no lube and make U like it. Weird if U ask me... Hell even if U don't. 

The Germans don’t overcharge, the top 3 selling luxury brands in the world are German, top 3 in China are German, top 3 in Europe are German and 3 of top 4 in USA are German.  If they were so outrageously over priced the sales would not be that high.

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Posted (edited)

This guy is proof positive that ONLY in America do we get fukked on a regular basis by foreign companies and we like it. @smk4565.. dude.. everything called European IMPORT is normally more expensive. Americans are fixated on the idea that if its from Europe its better... even when its not. Been seeing this so often with Benzes that I called the Mercedes dealership to make sure that "not starting when U press the button" wasn't now STANDARD. German POS.

I talked to the owner as the tow truck was hooking up.. She said.. its the 6th time its happened since she got it in 2014

 

benzo.jpg

 

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Germans don’t overcharge, the top 3 selling luxury brands in the world are German, top 3 in China are German, top 3 in Europe are German and 3 of top 4 in USA are German.  If they were so outrageously over priced the sales would not be that high.

Good Propaganda pushers.. See? This is where that comes from.

gettyimages-119505258.jpg?quality=90&str

Edited by Cmicasa the Great

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