Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Exactly. Meanwhile, range fluctuations are not unique to EVs. Per Fueleconomy.gov:

"Cold weather and winter driving conditions can reduce your fuel economysignificantly. Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips."

 

Again, a troll just being what he is, a troll (and an uninformed one at that).

While there is zero dispute that there is range loss for ICE vehicles as well it's a little different with an EV in that there's more range lost and it isn't quite as easy to "fill up". Buuuut, that's only an issue if you're road-tripping. A 50% loss of range wouldn't affect me in my day-to-day life with a 300 mile optimal range. I don't know anybody who drives 150+ miles so regularly that it would be an issue. 

Personally, I just don't like seeing double digit range and with something like that, you'd be living there for 3-4 month out of the year. It still wouldn't be an issue, it would just bug me. 

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

While there is zero dispute that there is range loss for ICE vehicles as well it's a little different with an EV in that there's more range lost and it isn't quite as easy to "fill up". Buuuut, that's only an issue if you're road-tripping. A 50% loss of range wouldn't affect me in my day-to-day life with a 300 mile optimal range. I don't know anybody who drives 150+ miles so regularly that it would be an issue. 

Personally, I just don't like seeing double digit range and with something like that, you'd be living there for 3-4 month out of the year. It still wouldn't be an issue, it would just bug me. 

I can understand the point your making and believe that advances in battery management will negate the current range loss in cold or heat in the next few years. 

Chevrolet Bolt with it's liquid temperature mangement system on the battery pack has shown that the reduction can be managed. I expect it to get better.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

While there is zero dispute that there is range loss for ICE vehicles as well it's a little different with an EV in that there's more range lost and it isn't quite as easy to "fill up". Buuuut, that's only an issue if you're road-tripping. A 50% loss of range wouldn't affect me in my day-to-day life with a 300 mile optimal range. I don't know anybody who drives 150+ miles so regularly that it would be an issue. 

Personally, I just don't like seeing double digit range and with something like that, you'd be living there for 3-4 month out of the year. It still wouldn't be an issue, it would just bug me. 

It should be noted that EV range loss isn’t due to the cold itself.

[David]

Watch the video if you do not want to read as you will see how exciting the new battery tech is that is coming.

BP has partnered with StoreDot an Israel battery company that has finally delivered their first battery cells to auto companies and battery production companies for testing and review. 

The benefit of StoreDot battery cell's is that you are looking at a 5 min recharge time. Also these battery cells do not use graphite that tends to slow down the recharging of battery cells and instead uses a metalloid nanoparticles design.

Interesting marketing fact is that while they are working on these fast rechargeable batteries for auto's to portable cell phones, etc. they found that a 2020 study done globally of people filling out their input found that most would be happy with a 31 minute recharge time along with a 291 mile battery range and a $36,000 starting price for EVs. This would be the tipping point in having people change from ICE auto's to EVs.

BP partner StoreDot produces cells with 5-minute fast-charging tech (greencarreports.com)

[David]

BNSF Railway with Wabtec begin Battery-electric locomotive pilot in California. Yup, the focus is to move beyond the diesel generator / electric motor Locomotive to a pure electric / battery pack locomotive.

 

[David]

VW has released their 2020 PHEV/BEV sales showing a tripling of sales over 2019.

Volkswagen brand triples deliveries of all-electric vehicles in 2020 | Volkswagen Newsroom (volkswagen-newsroom.com)

This is an overview of passenger car deliveries.

PM_Volkswagen_brand_triples_deliveries_of_all-electric_vehicles_in_2020.pdf

Seems the VW CEO is wanting to battle with Tesla CEO Musk over Electric market share.

 

[ocnblu]

9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

What's unpredictable? You already know about the cold weather range so what don't you know that is unpredictable? 

Uh... the chargers?  Location, availability, reliability and efficiency.

[oldshurst442]

Sandy Munro took delivery of a 2021 Tesla Model 3 and will take it across the USA to see how well (or not) it performs as compared to the last Model 3 he had when he and his company tore it down for cost analysis. He will do a cost analysis on this one too to see how Tesla changed its manufacturing on it.

The road trip will also conclude about battery loss in cold weather. He is skeptical on the whole thing (on certain resources on BOTH sides). Some folk say battery degradation is at 40% or so while others say its as little as 15-20%. Well...HE wants to see for himself what is the reality of it all.  

There are 3 other episodes before this one. The 3 previous are his INITIAL thoughts on the visual cues on differences of his last Model 3.  Panel gaps are still a problem...and it bugs the shyte out of him. (And the shytiness of closing the frunk) but mainly he says that panel gaps are REALLY not a big issue over all and that the Model 3 is really a fantastic EV over all. Paint issues are all gone too. 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Uh... the chargers?  Location, availability, reliability and efficiency.

Well you can look where chargers are right now and every day there are more added to the grid.

I completely agree on the reliability of the chargers as, from what I've seen, they're very "iffy" on if they're going to be working or not, let alone if they're actually putting out a decent rate of charge. 

[David]

This is probably the best I have ever seen a Tesla Look, a customer built 2 door Tesla S sedan.

Tesla Model S is turned into 2-door convertible and actually looks good (electrek.co)

@A Horse With No Name Here is a very green travel Van for you!  

The vanlife electric: Nissan e-NV200 Winter Camper concept (greencarreports.com)

[A Horse With No Name]

20 minutes ago, David said:

This is probably the best I have ever seen a Tesla Look, a customer built 2 door Tesla S sedan.

Tesla Model S is turned into 2-door convertible and actually looks good (electrek.co)

@A Horse With No Name Here is a very green travel Van for you!  

The vanlife electric: Nissan e-NV200 Winter Camper concept (greencarreports.com)

I love the Van!

[David]

Yes I admit the 6 figures cost to convert this from ICE to EV is crazy, but I do get the point of this person and the auto passion for a better driving car.
James May’s MGB EV Restomod Drive Makes a Case for Electrified Classic Cars (thedrive.com)

[balthazar]

On 1/20/2021 at 11:10 AM, ccap41 said:

While there is zero dispute that there is range loss for ICE vehicles as well [in cold weather]...

There's no DIC (Driver Info Center) in my 2500HD, and/so I log every fill up & compute the MPG. I don't know why- I started doing it with me '64 Catalina.
My truck never sees a weather-related MPG drop- it just doesn't care. Now, NJ doesn't see many long-stretch true cold spells, and by that I'd define 'cold' as under 25F. Plenty in the 30s tho. Maybe in more northern climes, where it can run in the 10s or lower for weeks, it'd be different. [/report]

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There's no DIC (Driver Info Center) in my 2500HD, and/so I log every fill up & compute the MPG. I don't know why- I started doing it with me '64 Catalina.
My truck never sees a weather-related MPG drop- it just doesn't care. Now, NJ doesn't see many long-stretch true cold spells, and by that I'd define 'cold' as under 25F. Plenty in the 30s tho. Maybe in more northern climes, where it can run in the 10s or lower for weeks, it'd be different. [/report]

Every vehicle I've had has at least 10-15% loss in winter. I guess I wouldn't know about my first three vehicles as I didn't track their MPG at all and the C350 I wasn't consistent but it did give a fairly accurate readout. I started tracking religiously with my Mach 1. 

Check out the averages by month on my "dashboard". These are all hand calculated.

https://www.fuelly.com/dashboard

If that link doesn't bring you to my direct page, here are my individual vehicle pages.

2013 Escape

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/escape/2013/ccap41/332629

2016 MKC

https://www.fuelly.com/car/lincoln/mkc/2016/ccap41/902433

2016 Focus

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2016/ccap41/559151

2003 Mach 1

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/mustang/2003/ccap41/256594

[David]

Interesting first and current reviews on the Tesla 3. At the start of production Tesla 3 was equal to Kia in the early 90's in fit n finish. Still has a long way to go, but getting better.

Engineer Who Compared Tesla Model 3 Quality To 'A Kia In The '90s' Buys Another Model 3. Here's What He Found (jalopnik.com)

[oldshurst442]

Episode 2 of Sandy Munro's road trip

 

[ykX]

Mach E range test.

Not great but not bad either, he got about 250 miles with regular driving.  But that was at average ambient temperature, not too hot and not too cold.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by ykX

[David]

2021 should be an interesting year as multiple sites are talking about the points that have been stated by the new US administration. The following seems to be on tap and will be watched to see what all gets done.

Quote of the Top 10 Auto Items:

• Rebooting Cash for Clunkers
• Expanding / Extending EV tax credits
• Revisiting Fuel Economy requirements
• Accelerate Public fleets to all-electric. Focus is to transition the US entire fleet of 500,000 school buses to EVs within 5yrs.
• Rapid build out of Charging infrastructure. Plan to add 500,000 rapid chargers coast to coast with feds working with local states.
• Reduce charging deserts and energy poverty through a National policy to update / expand the energy grid everywhere.
• Cleaner, sustainable and resilient energy grid. The focus is to invest in Americas Infrastructure to build a redundant greener electrical grid coast to coast. Expanding green energy production.
• EV-manufacturing transition through financial support to help transition the US manufacturing plants to cleaner EV manufacturing.
• Support for nurturing smaller US EV companies. This is making sure startup like Rivian, Lucid and Lordstown have access to intellectual guidance and as needed to financial means to ensure they can succeed in bringing their products to market.
• Return to tariff stability

Wild card stated is the way Auto companies attempt to rewrite history as they now will have to deal with California CARB especially since half of the auto companies selling in the US sided with California in saying they could meet the requirements of CARB while the other half was divided into two camps with half saying they could not and half not taking a position.

How the Biden presidency will accelerate change to electric cars: 10 talking points (greencarreports.com)

Interesting times for sure in the auto industry.

Interesting VW story on their new Trinity EV project, next generation platform that will allow for a even smoother and faster building of entry level to uber luxury EV auto's.

On top of this, the Wolfsburg plant which was one of VWs largest ICE assembly plants is being converted to EV production to support increased EV demand in Europe.

VW CEO teases Trinity project to rival Tesla, revamp Wolfsburg plant for EVs (greencarreports.com)

[David]

Excellent read on the EV cost versus CO2 benefits. They do clearly say that the high cost of EVs is an impediment to converting over when you compare the equal ICE version. 

You can even play with the carbon counter by filtering the results to see specific facts. As they state, for those that can afford the higher up-front cost of an EV, the carbon counter project allows you to visualize how the cost advantages pencil out over the years.

https://www.carboncounter.com 

EV cost vs. CO2 benefit: Updated tool helps navigate the numbers for 2021 (greencarreports.com)

 

[David]

BMW i4 EV sedan is in final tweaks for production and coming to market late in 2021. It would appear they want to return to a Ultimate Driving Machine. Be interesting to see what people think.

 

[David]

Thanks to a very cool science project that proved air quality in Diesel School buses was not just bad, but terrible as the science project proved that Diesel CO2 fumes in buses were 10 times higher than the recommended EPA limits.

As such Miami has applied to get their share of the State VW Diesel Gate settlement and will use it to start buying EV buses to replace diesel.  The school districts admit that the cost is 2 to 3 times higher than Diesel buses up front, but that maintenance costs on EV buses are 80% less than Diesel buses.

EPA lists that 350 ppm is normal, 450 ppm is acceptable and anything over 2,500 ppm causes adverse health effects. Testing on the school buses showed that concentrations were as high as 5,000 ppm which has adverse affects on young and old people.

Current EV school buses take about 6hrs to fully recharge as they have a 100 mile range but tend to run less than a 50 mile route. EV buses allow the drivers to hear the students better and have a better driving experience with less to have to check and deal with compared to current Diesel buses.

Charged EVs | Miami middle-school student inspires school board to electrify its school bus fleet - Charged EVs

Latest JD Powers study on people who went from ICE to EV shows that EV owners will not go back to ICE even if their EV has not been the best experience as they still find greater customer satisfaction over ICE auto's. Chevy Bolt is rated #2 for Mass Market EVs, was surpassed by the Kia Niro EV last year. Tesla continues to hold the crown for Premium EVs.

Survey shows EV owners will not go back to gas, brand loyalty is a bit ‘fickle,’ and Tesla leads (electrek.co)

[David]

Tesla Model Y has fueled Tesla's 63% increase in registrations for the past year. While Model Y sales and registrations have jumped, records do show that Tesla Model 3 car sales and registrations dropped in the 2nd half of 2020 by 34% showing the increased trend for people to move to SUV/CUV type auto's.

Tesla Model Y fuels brand's 63% jump in California registrations | Autoblog

[David]

Crazy is as Crazy does. Seems Jeep will launch their 2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe plug-in hybrid in Europe first. As such, they have a web site for people to register so that they can reserve/order one first. No time line for the US has been announced, but prices are a bit shocking.

Quote: 

Black, Granite Crystal, and Bright White are the only options on the First Edition palette. Jeep points out they're the three colors that European customers prefer. LED headlights, Granite Crystal accents, 18-inch wheels, and a hard cover for the spare tire are also found on the list of standard features. Inside, the launch model offers an 8.4-inch touchscreen with navigation, smartphone connectivity, and an information screen in the instrument cluster.

Jeep made no mechanical changes to the First Edition, so it's powered by a gasoline-electric plug-in hybrid powertrain that consists of a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine and an electric motor integrated into the eight-speed automatic transmission. The system's total output checks in at 375 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque. It weighs nearly 5,000 pounds, yet it posts a six-second sprint from zero to 60 mph.

Significantly, the electronics (including the 17-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack) are fully protected from the elements. Like the non-hybrid Wrangler, the 4xe is capable of driving through up to 30 inches of water.

Cost:

• France - Starts at $87,300
• Germany - Starts at $92,500
• Switzerland - Starts at $96,000

Clearly a luxury auto in Europe.

2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe First Edition detailed for the European market | Autoblog

[A Horse With No Name]

[David]

GM has announced a major change to a Canadian manufacturing plant. 

CAMI will become Canada's first large scale electric delivery vehicle manufacturing plant. The first auto to be produced there replacing Chevrolet Equinox production is the BrightDrop EV600 delivery van and the EP1 electric e-pallet product.

GM to Invest Nearly $800 Million To Convert CAMI into Canada’s First Large-Scale Commercial Electric Vehicle Manufacturing Plant

[oldshurst442]

Sandy Munro's E3 and E4.   E3 is just him enjoying the road trip. He likes the scenery Utah.

 

E4

Nothing to report other than the trip is going smoothly. And he talks about gas station food. He enjoys it...

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by oldshurst442

[riviera74]

8 hours ago, David said:

2021 should be an interesting year as multiple sites are talking about the points that have been stated by the new US administration. The following seems to be on tap and will be watched to see what all gets done.

Quote of the Top 10 Auto Items:

• Rebooting Cash for Clunkers
• Expanding / Extending EV tax credits
• Revisiting Fuel Economy requirements
• Accelerate Public fleets to all-electric. Focus is to transition the US entire fleet of 500,000 school buses to EVs within 5yrs.
• Rapid build out of Charging infrastructure. Plan to add 500,000 rapid chargers coast to coast with feds working with local states.
• Reduce charging deserts and energy poverty through a National policy to update / expand the energy grid everywhere.
• Cleaner, sustainable and resilient energy grid. The focus is to invest in Americas Infrastructure to build a redundant greener electrical grid coast to coast. Expanding green energy production.
• EV-manufacturing transition through financial support to help transition the US manufacturing plants to cleaner EV manufacturing.
• Support for nurturing smaller US EV companies. This is making sure startup like Rivian, Lucid and Lordstown have access to intellectual guidance and as needed to financial means to ensure they can succeed in bringing their products to market.
• Return to tariff stability

Wild card stated is the way Auto companies attempt to rewrite history as they now will have to deal with California CARB especially since half of the auto companies selling in the US sided with California in saying they could meet the requirements of CARB while the other half was divided into two camps with half saying they could not and half not taking a position.

How the Biden presidency will accelerate change to electric cars: 10 talking points (greencarreports.com)

Interesting times for sure in the auto industry.

Interesting VW story on their new Trinity EV project, next generation platform that will allow for a even smoother and faster building of entry level to uber luxury EV auto's.

On top of this, the Wolfsburg plant which was one of VWs largest ICE assembly plants is being converted to EV production to support increased EV demand in Europe.

VW CEO teases Trinity project to rival Tesla, revamp Wolfsburg plant for EVs (greencarreports.com)

Other than rebooting Cash for Clunkers (bad idea!), sounds like a good plan for the current administration.

[balthazar]

9 hours ago, David said:

The following seems to be on tap and will be watched to see what all gets done.

If... and I stress IF there wasn't a nation-wide pandemic and unprecedented issues with foreclosures/ evictions, unemployment/ebbing income tax revenues, bankruptcies/ fleeing businesses, withering industries begging for lifelines... MAYBE the Gov't could simply double the $560,000,000 of paper money they print DAILY and pay for many of these pie-inna-sky dream projects. I just don't see where the money would come from. I mean, it's on the order of $125 Billion just for the school bus dream... and the states don't even own all those buses (private companies & individual contractors are a major component- how does the Gov't force them to spend a quarter million/bus??)

Typical Big Gov't disconnect from reality.

[oldshurst442]

E5 of Sandy Munro's road trip

He says he barely squeezed in a charging point and that there were only two spots available.  Im curious now more than ever to find about his battery and range details...

He also said that his wife asked him to eat better food other than gas station hot dogs. LOL.

He also hinted that he took a look at a Faraday Future and he said that its a nice car and he is impressed by it.  Nothing else was said about it but he will go into detail about it later on.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by oldshurst442

[David]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:28 PM, balthazar said:

If... and I stress IF there wasn't a nation-wide pandemic and unprecedented issues with foreclosures/ evictions, unemployment/ebbing income tax revenues, bankruptcies/ fleeing businesses, withering industries begging for lifelines... MAYBE the Gov't could simply double the $560,000,000 of paper money they print DAILY and pay for many of these pie-inna-sky dream projects. I just don't see where the money would come from. I mean, it's on the order of $125 Billion just for the school bus dream... and the states don't even own all those buses (private companies & individual contractors are a major component- how does the Gov't force them to spend a quarter million/bus??)

Typical Big Gov't disconnect from reality.

I get your take on this. One way to convert to an EV fleet faster is by allowing businesses to take advantage of tax breaks as incentives.

Example is that the private taxi drivers in Europe buy high end BMW and Mercedes auto's as they are allowed to write off 50% of the cost in the first year and the rest in year 2 as long as they drive over 100,000 kilometers each year. Easy for a taxi driver, gives them a nice new auto to drive, cleaner for the passengers and helps create multiple jobs.

Here in Washington state, there are incentives like this for the private companies that contract with school districts to convert over to alternative energy school buses that started in 2015. The number of Diesel had been dropping while CNG, Hybrid had been increasing and as the school districts have stated a move to EV school buses will be embraced once a return to in school classes after the pandemic is over.

Yes everything costs, but what price can you put on a child's life in comparison to breathing toxic diesel fumes?

In this regards, I consider everyone's life far more precious than the cost of leaving what has been efficient transportation for cleaner better transportation as we improve ourselves via education, science and technology.

[oldshurst442]

Episodes 6 and 7 on Sandy Munro's road trip are not worthy of a posting.  Episode 7 is both funny and cringe.

BUT...Episode 5 on his tear down of the Model 3 is a must to be viewed.

 

What I got from this small window:

Tesla is learning to engineering cars and to manufacture them, but they are improving at a snail's pace.  The Model Y is an example of how Tesla could be all across the board, yet on the 2021 Model 3, they havent fully embraced the improvements.  The production of the 2021 Model 3 is an improvement over the 2018 version, but not enough.  The Model Y which shares many components with the Model 3 is an improvement over the Model 3 including the 2021 version. But it baffles me (with Sandy's opinions in mind) as to why they wont go to the extra lengths to improve the Model 3 the way they might have with the Model Y.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by oldshurst442

[David]

@oldshurst442 It is interesting at how slow Tesla is moving to embrace the Model Y improvements into the Model 3. This could be what causes Tesla to have to possibly partner up with another Auto OEM or ends up getting bought out by say the Chinese as Tesla is moving slower than the other OEMs in this industry and this story is a perfect example of just how challenging it is going to get.

Will BMW i4 outdo Model 3 in handling performance? (greencarreports.com)

BMW has clearly set their i4 sedan on outperforming the Tesla Model 3 and if they nail it, Tesla will be in trouble.

[David]

Over the last 4 years, the DC machine has held up the final rules on Low Volume Motor Vehicle Manufacturers Act (HR 2675) now that the current administration released the rules that were being held up, it appears we just might see an actual Electric DeLorean "time machine" revival now a possibility with replica rule (greencarreports.com) 

According to this, the Texas company, yes same one that @balthazar pointed out in regards to this had shown off in 2012 an EV version where everything was just like the original except the power train. In 2012 they showed this auto exactly like the original but with electric power train, 200 miles battery pack and a 0-60 mph under 5 seconds. 

The company now believes they can build these auto's to be even faster, keeping true to the original auto and rather than go ICE, go EV with a far better performance and fun factor.

Should make for some interesting production as Tesla has moved to Texas, DeLorean is now looking to go into production with their EV time machine.

Interesting times we live in. 

 

 

[David]

As we know, Government entities love to talk about numerical numbers and set numbers for things that have to be done. Rarely do we see them actually meet those set numbers.

City of LA is celebrating reaching a milestone two years ahead of plan. In 2018 the city of LA offered a wide variety of rebates for businesses to apartment complexes to install fast chargers or commercial chargers. At the time 55% of the people living in LA were renters.

As of the start of 2021, LA has 11,045 commercial charging locations opened to the public and businesses. That is 1,045 chargers more than the goal set of having 10,000 by the end of 2022.

Cool part is that at the end of 2019, 60% of the rebates applied for were for commercial chargers installed in apartment complexes. 

LA has now set new updated goals, 25,000 chargers by 2025, 28,000 by 2028.

This does not take into account Tesla charging stations or for profit private charging stations networks.

Charged EVs | LA reaches 10,000 public chargers, two years earlier than planned - Charged EVs

[David]

Tesla, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!

While the current owners do not seem to care as much about the fit n finish of their Tesla auto's or that Tesla is buying fake wood trim pieces to hold together the Heat Pump in the auto or any of the other rubber band issues that have been discovered with the Tesla auto, the larger auto market does care.

Cox Automotive did a consumer research on Electric Pickup Trucks. In 2020, a pandemic year, 2.9 million pickups were still sold in the US. The focus was what buyers thought of electric versus ICE, age demographics and more.

As expected, those in the 18 to 34 age group were more than willing to consider and look at EV and ICE compared to the older age groups.

Then as our Yoda of Old @balthazar has repeatedly pointed out from cost to design will play a point in how well the EV sells. As such, Cox Automotive did this comparison. Interesting is how Technology plays between ICE and EV as well as Horsepower.

Then we get into what I consider the Meat and Potatoes of the study and that is clearly pointing to the first 4 big companies to release an EV pickup. Ford, Hummer, Tesla and Rivian and so see who is in last place right now should not surprise established auto company buyers, but should make Tesla Concerned as winning the hearts and minds of the American Consumer is no small thing. Ford has only one real issue and that is Tech Advances where they are just barely above Tesla compared to Hummer in 1st place and Rivian a very close second.

Focusing on just an EV pickup purchase only gives the following some interesting numbers and if Ford Delivers, should do them well in their move to electrification for their whole product portfolio.

Final interesting comparison is in how appealing potential buyers find the current EV trucks based on what pictures have been shown to date. Again, this should be telling Tesla, that your Cyber Truck is DEAD ON ARRIVAL!

Consumer Snapshot: Electric Pickup Trucks - Cox Automotive Inc. (coxautoinc.com)

[David]

Europe is truly leading the way in reducing reliance on fossil fuels to create electricity as the European Union for the first time replaced Fossil Fuels with Renewables as the leading form of electricity generation.

In EU electricity first, renewables overtook fossil fuels in 2020 - Electrek

[David]

Maybe this blazer will come back as an EV and then @ocnblu will have a new CUV to mock.  

Chevrolet Blazer XT-1 1987 Concept

 

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, David said:

Tesla, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!

155 people were surveyed for this "study".  Do you know how ridiculously small that sample is?  Do you care?

LOL this "study" was done by Cox Automotive.  Cox Automotive is a Rivian investor!  And ONE HUNDRED FIFTY-FIVE people were surveyed!  What a load of BS!

The Cox Automotive Consumer Snapshot Electric Pickup Trucks study involved surveying 155 in-market consumers that were shopping for a pickup truck, including 60 in market for an electric (EV) pickup truck. The survey was in field from Nov. 25-Dec. 2, 2020. Results are directional. Note: Cox Automotive is an investor in Rivian.

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, David said:

Maybe this blazer will come back as an EV and then @ocnblu will have a new CUV to mock.  

Chevrolet Blazer XT-1 1987 Concept

 

Certainly is ugly enough to be an EV, I will give it that.  Hated it then, hate it more now.

[David]

22 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

155 people were surveyed for this "study".  Do you know how ridiculously small that sample is?  Do you care?

LOL this "study" was done by Cox Automotive.  Cox Automotive is a Rivian investor!  And ONE HUNDRED FIFTY-FIVE people were surveyed!  What a load of BS!

The Cox Automotive Consumer Snapshot Electric Pickup Trucks study involved surveying 155 in-market consumers that were shopping for a pickup truck, including 60 in market for an electric (EV) pickup truck. The survey was in field from Nov. 25-Dec. 2, 2020. Results are directional. Note: Cox Automotive is an investor in Rivian.

No different than many other survey's done that cover the auto industry and more. Still interesting info.

[David]

Seems musk completed the underground tunnel system in Las Vegas to get folks from the Convention Center to the Strip. Will use Tesla 3's driving in autonomous mode to get folks back n forth over the 1 mile tunnel.

 

Found a full story on it.

Elon Musk Shows off the Mega-Tunnel He Built in Las Vegas and Promises Themed Opening Party (entrepreneur.com)

[oldshurst442]

55 minutes ago, David said:

Seems musk completed the underground tunnel system in Las Vegas to get folks from the Convention Center to the Strip. Will use Tesla 3's driving in autonomous mode to get folks back n forth over the 1 mile tunnel.

 

Found a full story on it.

Elon Musk Shows off the Mega-Tunnel He Built in Las Vegas and Promises Themed Opening Party (entrepreneur.com)

 

Quote

The Vegas Loop consists of two twin one-mile (1.6-kilometer) tunnels, which form a loop. It connects the Convention Center with the Las Vegas Strip , creating an alternative, high-speed subway system. Passengers will be transported in autonomous Tesla cars and it will operate alongside public buses, taxis and the monorail.

 

 

THAT seems HIGHLY inefficient...

WHY?

Well...Paris'  (France)subway system, which Montreal and Athens, Greece use, IS an electric powered subway.

Our newer Azure trains 

 

Athens Metro

 

anyway...

1. the subway system does NOT need to be recharged as there is a continual stream of electricity flowing through the middle rail...  And at least in Montreal...its hydro-electric power.  Dont know about France and Greece. (Dont really care either right about now...) 

2. even as back as the 1980s, the system was autonomous. Actually, I think even NYC's old school subway is autonomous...also back in the '80s...

and  the next one is where Elon's idea might be shyte...

3. THESE are TRAINS...   HUNDREDS OF TOURISTS AND REGULAR CITIZENS  USE THE SUBWAY AT ONE TIME...rather than a shytty taxi service...   And dont kid yourself...these trains are fast.  

4.  Some other countries use MAG LEVS that are even faster than Elon's cars...

5. Montreal will also get an electric train ABOVE ground in 2023...to operate alongside taxis, ubers, public buses, metros and the shytty old school train system we got...

 

 

 

 

[David]

@oldshurst442 I totally agree with you that the Tesla Tunnel is NOT EFFICIENT!

The only reason it was approved and done was that Musk owns the tunnel system, it is not a public system. Private system and I think more of a Tesla Marketing system to have people experience EVs Tesla style. 

Sadly, I think it is a FAILURE out of the box as I cannot fit in the Tesla 3 compared to the electric trains. I think many people will not be impressed on fitting in. More negatives over the long term than in the short term.

As with anything new, it will be cool for a few months to maybe a year or two and then people will be saying the same thing you have stated above.

Seattle Lite Rail is better than the Tesla Tunnel as it is both under ground in places and above ground and even goes over our floating bridges.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

No different than many other survey's done that cover the auto industry and more.

No, c'mon; it's both statistically irrelevant and from a compromised source. Not admissible.

[balthazar]

12 hours ago, David said:

what price can you put on a child's life in comparison to breathing toxic diesel fumes?

This sounds like a wackadoodle conspiracy theory.

The exhaust is not pumped into the interiors of the bus / children are not dropping dead from riding a school bus.

[USA-1]

 

Pretty informative, I think the last minute starting @15:45 is one of the best parts. "Watts to Freedom" mode 🇺🇸👍🏼 There really is a crazy amount of Tech. in this beast.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, USA-1 said:

 

Pretty informative, I think the last minute starting @15:45 is one of the best parts. "Watts to Freedom" mode 🇺🇸👍🏼 There really is a crazy amount of Tech. in this beast.

 

 

Now...let's hope that the EV public will accept it. 

There are several things that are against it and it isnt even out yet.

1. Its NOT a Tesla  

2. Because its a GM product and NOT a Tesla

3. Its name is HUMMER. 20 years ago, It quickly went from a stud to a dud BECAUSE green people shunned it for being a gas guzzling SUV.  We do not know if GM/GMC and/or HUMMER shook that stigma off, even if it IS 20 years ago in the past...

4. We already know that there are some ICE people that will hate on EVs no matter what...so this EV HUMMER cant even rely on the macho-ness of the big, brutish V8 SUV crowd...  Like you have implied with Cadillac going all in with EVs but Chevy will continue on selling V8s and ICEs...   The big brutish SUV crowd will just ignore this and go on and buy Yukons, Tahoes and TRX's from Dodge... 

 

[balthazar]

I see ‘it’s not a Tesla’ falling away rapidly as more BE’s come online. Tesla WILL lose market share. Hummer just seems to blow away the silly cybertruck and the Rivian, right off the bat. Looking forward to real world reviews.

Edited January 26, 2021 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I see ‘it’s not a Tesla’ falling away rapidly as more BE’s come online. Tesla WILL lose market share. Hummer just seems to blow away the silly cybertruck and the Rivian, right off the bat. Looking forward to real world reviews.

Oh...I agree 100 and 10 percent!

But as it is now...I am perhaps reading too much into the situation...BUT...

When Sandy Munro was discussing on Autoline Afterhours that his next tear up vehicle for analysis would be the Rivian, he explained that he went to his viewers and followers on-line to ask what vehicle THEY want to see to be reviewed. 

HIS viewers made an almost unanimous decision to choose Rivian and hence his next subject.

HUMMER, CYbertruck among others were choices...but as HE said, NOBODY chose the HUMMER. OK...the Cybertruck also had few votes...kinda proving your point about Tesla.  BUT...also kinda proving MY point about HUMMER. 

Maybe my #1 point is not all that accurate as to say that Telsa is infallible. And my #2 point is also less than accurate about Tesla too...however, HUMMER may NOT be such a hot commodity JUST because its a GM product and its name IS HUMMER...

GM marketing has to work crazy overtime hours to make this a hit BEFORE it hits the showrooms. Its BEHIND the 8 ball as we speak. 

PS: I am NOT doubting the capabilities of the HUMMER. Just the star power of it and the lack thereof. 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

I know Munroe and watched his first Model 3 teardown video, but he's not driving/directing BE sales in one direction or another.

Rivian has been talked about for what- 2 years? Hummer has only been been unveiled for like 2 months, and the launch edition is $112K vs. the $75K of the Rivian.