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Buick Announces Pricing for All New 2006 Lucerne

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DETROIT – General Motors’ Buick division announced manufacturer’s suggest retail prices (MSRPs) today for the all-new 2006 Lucerne entry luxury sedan with base MSRPs ranging from $26,990 to $35,990. Lucerne pricing reflects GM’s Total Value Promise, targets comparably-equipped import competitors, and should have a positive impact on comparison shopping, particularly on the Internet. "Lucerne is Buick’s most premium and elegant model,” said Buick General Manager Steve Shannon. “While not a replacement, Lucerne is contented and packaged to cover a price encompassing both LeSabre and Park Avenue while squarely taking on competitors.” With premium content, a compelling safety story – including six standard air bags, dual-stage driver air bag, segment-first dual depth front passenger air bag – and a strong value story, Lucerne is a strong proof point for Buick’s Total Value Promise. Standard on every Lucerne are Onstar, QuietTuning – Buick’s exclusive process to eliminate unwanted cabin noise – and a four-year/50,000 mile warranty. “In addition to a great line-up of standard features, Lucerne’s exterior styling, spacious interior and nimble ride and handling position Lucerne to win over competitive owners and Buick loyalists alike,” added Shannon. Lucerne will be available in four models: CX, CXL V6, CXL V8, and CXS. Each MSRP listed includes a $725 destination charge. Buick Lucerne CX – $26,990 The most aggressively-priced model in the lineup, Lucerne CX is powered by GM’s 3800 Series III V-6. Lucerne ’s starting MSRP is $460 below the current LeSabre and comes with significantly more content – including an enhanced warranty, traction control and additional airbags. When adjusted for equipment, Lucerne CX is priced more than $2,200 below a comparable 2005 LeSabre. For consumers who pre-shop on the Internet, Lucerne will stand out. For instance, Lucerne ’s starting MSRP is $5,960 below the 2006 Lexus ES. Buick Lucerne CXL V6 –$28,990 With 17” premium painted aluminum wheels, the CXL V6 offers leather seats, a leather-wrapped steering wheel and power passenger seat. Buick Lucerne CXL V8 – $30,990 Lucerne CXL V8 shows an unparalled value among V8 luxury cars. With an MSRP of $30,990, the Lucerne CXL V8 offers a 275 horsepower Northstar V8 that can go head to head against high end imports like the Lexus GS and Infiniti M, both with MSRPs which start above $45,000. StabiliTrak, GM’s electronic stability enhancement system that helps maintain vehicle control during certain low-traction driving conditions like ice, snow, gravel, wet pavement and uneven road surfaces, is available on CXL V8 models. Buick Lucerne CXS – $35,990 The performance-oriented Lucerne CXS comes standard with the Northstar V8 and features 18” wheels. Lucerne CXS is the first Buick to offer Magnetic Ride Control, paired with StabiliTrak, to enhance overall ride performance. This system uses magnetically charged particles suspended in a synthetic fluid to continuously adjust the fluid’s viscosity to varying road surfaces and driving characteristics. The system has quicker response than conventional valve-damping systems, while providing exceptional vehicle control and increased tire contact with the road surface. Full complement of comfort and convenience features Lucerne has a complete range of comfort and convenience features available befitting Buick’s premium image, such as heated/cooled front seats; factory-installed remote start; Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist; rain-sensing windshield wiper system; the first heated windshield washer fluid application in its class; a nine-speaker, 280-watt Harman Kardon audio system; six-disc in-dash CD changer with MP3 capability; and DVD map navigation. More information is available at media.gm.com. Production of Lucerne starts in fourth quarter 2005 at the Detroit-Hamtramack manufacturing facility. That plant placed third in North/South America in the 2005 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study. Following the Buick LaCrosse midsize sedan and Terraza crossover sport van, Lucerne is the third new vehicle in Buick's refreshed portfolio in just over 12 months.

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Buick, you just signed away your life. $27,000 for an aging full-size car with a weak V-6 engine and a 4-speed automatic transmission in 2006 against Avalon, 300, and Montego. Buh-bye Buick, hate to see you go like this... BTW, how is Lucerne not a replacement for LeSabre/Park Avenue? Must've been stupid PR-speak for "I have nothing good to say about this car." Edited by Mule Bakersdozen LS

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I dunno. The Avalon is fairly ugly. Sure it's got the numbers, but it doesn't have the looks. The Lucerne is understated yet attractive and for 30k I can get into a V8 model that isn't even available in the Avalon.

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Great price with alot of equipment. I think they'll see alot of them go out the door from current LeSabre owners, and conquest owners. The car is stunning and the price is right. You might not like it Mule Bakersdozen LS, but overall the press does.

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The CXL V8 is a very good price. Edited by CSpec

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that's sweet pricing - average in a little 1000 rebate for past GM customers, and i don't think they are going to have a problem selling it. Especially the CXS, it's like DTS-lite for 15k less. sweeet

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Not too bad, I guess, but get used to seeing 90% Gold and Silver painted ones wearing the most hideous Buick hubcaps and a front bench seat on a dealer lot coming to you soon.....just hope the Lucerne looks better as a "base" than the LeSabre does. Comparison to the 300/300C and it's $24-34k base, RWD, and bolder looks is inevitable, but it should still do strongly. Similarly, it better have as good of driving characteristics, refinement, and materials like the Avalon. Edited by caddycruiser

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The 300 platform isn't all that fresh. It's based on the previous gen of MB E-class only 2 or so years younger then the most recent G-bodies. RWD is only a virtue for members of this site. For the target audience of former LeSabre, Park Ave, Continental, LHS owners, FWD is a virtue. For the LeSabre and PA owners, the 3800 will be familiar and safe. The Northstar should satisfy Continental owners. The 185 hp 3800 is so close in power output to the ES's 190hp that it won't be an issue for those people.

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Seems to be priced right. I know many people who don't mind FWD and do not like the high belt line of the 300C. My father who is 55 and a dentist loves the new Lucerne. He plans to get a CXS this fall to complement my mom's Town and Country Limited. I really think this will sell well. It looks so much better than the Lacrosse and offer's a high tech V8.

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27 grand for a pushrod v6 with no power.......... otherwise they might be ok pricing wise. the 3800 is a joke offering in this car.

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27 grand for a pushrod v6 with no power..........

otherwise they might be ok pricing wise.

the 3800 is a joke offering in this car.

[post="18494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Yeah, that actually seems like it will be more of the problem. It has the fuel economy issue aced, but might be too much of a dud powerwise for such a relatively large, new luxury sedan.

Then again, the lower models ARE replacing the LeSabre, in effect, and they've done fine for years with the 3.8L, albeit unimpressive as they were.

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27 grand for a pushrod v6 with no power..........

otherwise they might be ok pricing wise.

the 3800 is a joke offering in this car.

[post="18494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



While I'll agree that the 3.6VVT would have been a better choice. The 3800 isn't horrible. Compaired to the Camry's 190 hp, it's right in line, and it has 227 ft/lbs of torque at 3800rpm compaired to the Toyota's 197 ft/lbs at 4400rpm.

If you've ever driven a modern 3800 you'll know that most of that torque hits at around 1,700 rpm so it should still feel quick off the line.

But again, you can get into a Northstar for just 30k. It's almost like buying a DTS-lite for 30k. The people who recognise that will have the advantage. The LeSabre/88/LHS drivers will probably enjoy this car in V6 form.

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Yeah, that actually seems like it will be more of the problem.  It has the fuel economy issue aced, but might be too much of a dud powerwise for such a relatively large, new luxury sedan.

Then again, the lower models ARE replacing the LeSabre, in effect, and they've done fine for years with the 3.8L, albeit unimpressive as they were.

[post="18514"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Wasn't LeSabre the best selling full sized car after the 88 was axed?

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I like the Lucerne a lot, and have even thought about getting one, but come on. To say that it would compete with the Infinity M-35/45 is asking a lot. It costs too much for too little features and then that name...

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Not too bad, I guess, but get used to seeing 90% Gold and Silver painted ones wearing the most hideous Buick hubcaps and a front bench seat on a dealer lot coming to you soon.....just hope the Lucerne looks better as a "base" than the LeSabre does.

[post="18448"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


That's one thing I am afraid of. I think the "base" models of these warmed over cars are doing more to hurt a potential Buick comeback anytime soon. If GM really wants Buick to come back they will at least make Buicks LOOK like luxury cars on the outside, and not rental specials.

I don't think I'm flipping for joy for the pricing, though this is right where Aurora pricing was years ago. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Have to wait and see how they drive.

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Especially the CXS, it's like DTS-lite for 15k less. sweeet

[post="18447"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I dont know. After seeing a couple DTSs this week, maybe a black DTS would be worth the extra 15k. Those are truly impressive cars when you see them in person.

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I dont know.  After seeing a couple DTSs this week, maybe a black DTS would be worth the extra 15k.  Those are truly impressive cars when you see them in person.

[post="18540"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


helly yes - neighbor down the street just got a goldish one, why that color I don't know.

But the grille (foreshadowing of the escalade grille) and front looks so much better in person, and the cabin is first rate, i mean just beautiful. Edited by jbartley

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27 grand for a pushrod v6 with no power..........

otherwise they might be ok pricing wise.

the 3800 is a joke offering in this car.

[post="18494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


there isnt anything wrong with that engine... it was a quick camaro, a strong accelorator in the lasabre, i wouldnt say it was a bad choice...

sure its no V8, but to the average Toyota/Honda buyer, the thing is a race car... GM's HP is so much faster then Toyota's HP... donno why gearing? torque? Drive train loss? but it is...

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Full sized Buicks have always had entry level models. This is not new. Of course I gravitate to the top end luxury versions...but not all Buicks were that way. Some were downright humble.

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Wasn't LeSabre the best selling full sized car after the 88 was axed?

[post="18516"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



I believe the LeSabre started its run as the best selling full-sized car in the early 1990's, well before the Eighty Eight died in 1999.

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I like the Lucerne a lot, and have even thought about getting one, but come on.  To say that it would compete with the Infinity M-35/45 is asking a lot.  It costs too much for too little features and then that name...

[post="18533"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I don't think anyone suggested that the Lucerne is M35/45 competition.

No, the competition for the Lucerne is the Grand Marquie, ES330, former Concord/LHS owners that don't like the new 300s, Camry owners that want to move up but don't like the Avalon, LeSabre, Park Ave, 88, 98 and Aurora owners.

The M35/45 competes with the CTS and STS at GM.

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I believe the LeSabre started its run as the best selling full-sized car in the early 1990's, well before the Eighty Eight died in 1999.

[post="18571"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


True. The LeSabre has always been a strong seller. I just hope the "name game" doesn't screw this car initially, like it did with the G6. Lucerne sounds fresher and cooler in my opinion, but I think with the Buick lots being devoid of LeSabres and stocked with new Lucernes instead, it won't take long at all for the typical blue hair buyer to make the switch.

For example, for the longest time after the Lacrosse was introduced, I only ever saw ONE within 20 miles of my house, and it was the same one--a silver blue CXS. Stayed that way for some time, but now, especially after the discounts, they're everywhere--and the local lot seems to have experienced a "switch", being out of Lacrosse's, but full of Century and Regal trade-ins. Edited by caddycruiser

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3800 has no power? What a crock. Unlike the sludge prone Toyota V-6s this motor just runs and runs and runs. Bottom line is if I was buying a car to race from light to light, it wouldn't be a Lucerne. But if I was doing 200 mile trips on the weekends, who really gives a crap as long as it goes forever and costs nothing to do it?

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I'm VERY happy with the pricing of this car for 2 reasons. Any higher, and I wouldn't have thought it was worth it. And the fact that it only goes into the mid-30's means Buick will indeed have a flagship :) There's no way GM will let Buick top out at mid 30's. Maybe upper 40's, but not mid 30's.

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I thought the 300 shared a rear axle with the E-class and a transmission and that was about it? I know it shares a specific component, but the LX cars are mostly all Chrysler, MB came on after they were done and donated that part to demonstrate the cost savings possible.

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helly yes - neighbor down the street just got a goldish one, why that color I don't know.

But the grille (foreshadowing of the escalade grille) and front looks so much better in person, and the cabin is first rate, i mean just beautiful.

[post="18544"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


After seeing one in person I have to agree----but the rear leaves a lot to be desired. I didn't get to take a long look at it though, just a quick glance. From what I saw the front was impressive (though it seemed to be propped up towards the sky), and the rear was bland and old-style looking.

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3800 has no power?

What a crock.

Unlike the sludge prone Toyota V-6s this motor just runs and runs and runs.

Bottom line is if I was buying a car to race from light to light, it wouldn't be a Lucerne. But if I was doing 200 mile trips on the weekends, who really gives a crap as long as it goes forever and costs nothing to do it?

[post="18584"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I thought it was only 4 banger Toyotas that sludge? :rolleyes:

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I like the Lucerne a lot, and have even thought about getting one, but come on.  To say that it would compete with the Infinity M-35/45 is asking a lot.  It costs too much for too little features and then that name...

[post="18533"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I like the Lucerne alot. I think that the M and GS were mentioned because, according to Buick's decree a while back, they want to be a Lexus alternative. I alsways assumed that that meant having a similar lineup, and that a RWD flagship would eventually be placed above the Lucerne for the LS. Anyway, I think that they're on the right track. The Lucerne has the looks and feel to be a value alternative to the M and GS. I disagree with you on the features... the press release let us know that the Lucerne will have a host of features that rivals the comp, including exclusives like heated windshield fluid and the remote start. The glaring problems with the Lucerne when compared to the others two is the powertrain and wheel drive. I'm hoping that the with the next gen, after it's established, Buick will finally which to RWD and put in the CTS's DOHC 3.5 V6 as a base and the Northstar making between 300-350hp. Then, on paper, it'll compare much more favorably with the M and GS. But the comparison is valid. In fact, I'm happy that Buick mentioned those cars as competitors. It lets us know that they're long term goal is to truly be a Lexus killer.

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3800 has no power?

What a crock.

Unlike the sludge prone Toyota V-6s this motor just runs and runs and runs.

Bottom line is if I was buying a car to race from light to light, it wouldn't be a Lucerne. But if I was doing 200 mile trips on the weekends, who really gives a crap as long as it goes forever and costs nothing to do it?

[post="18584"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



THAT WAS MY THOUGHTS (ABOUT THE FLAGSHIP). WITH THE BASE TOPPING AT ONLY $36K, THEY'RE SURE TO PUT A FULL SIZE FLAGSHIP ABOVE THE LUCERNE! A VELITE TOO, PERHAPS??? :rolleyes:

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I don't think anyone suggested that the Lucerne is M35/45 competition.

No, the competition for the Lucerne is the Grand Marquie, ES330, former Concord/LHS owners that don't like the new 300s, Camry owners that want to move up but don't like the Avalon, LeSabre, Park Ave, 88, 98 and Aurora owners.

The M35/45 competes with the CTS and STS at GM.

[post="18573"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



I disagree. The article suggested the M and GS as competiton. The Lacrosse is poised to compete with the ES (though it needs revisions, IMO, including the 3.5L DOHC V6 as it's only engine choince, not an option). Buick has every intention of the Lucerne going against the majors. GM believes there's room for both the Lucerne and STS in the same class. They'll be on polar opposites of the field in terms of price and what they stand for. The Lucerne will be the value leader for the entire class with a more compliant ride and quiet, strong power (a Lexus alternative). The STS is edgy, modern, and will go against the best in class (focusing on the Germans (and Infiniti) in making more driver oriented cars). There is truly room for them to coexist. I do think some changes should be made. The 3.5L DOHC should be the base, and the Northstar should make 315HP (so what about the DTS). I also think it should be RWD. Maybe on the next platform... but I don't think those changes will step on the STS's toes. It'll just be seen as a more viable competitor to that class of luxury. Edited by titan

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I think that's very fair pricing. You'd have to be a monumental idiot to buy a CXL V8 Lucerne instead of a CXS LaCrosse at MSRP, IMO. The Avalon fares better if you compare base models ($26,990 192-hp CX vs. $27,165 268-hp XL, $28,990 192-hp, leather-appointed CXL vs. $29,415, leather-appointed 268-hp Touring), but they're very close with more equipment ($35,990 275-hp CXS vs. $34,355 268-hp Limited).

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a 27 grand price point deserves more refinement and performance than what the 3800 offers. GM shouldn't get an exception for this because all the other competition will have better under the hood at that price.

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I think the 3800 is getting replaced by the 3900 or 3.6L HF V6 for 2006.

Anyways, the pricing is pretty good, although I think another grand lower for the base model would be better.

Lucerne CXL V8 offers a 275 horsepower Northstar V8 that can go head to head against high end imports like the Lexus GS and Infiniti M, both with MSRPs which start above $45,000.


:lol: I can't believe they said it somehow competes with those two. Maybe the engine can compete with the engines in those two, but there's no way the Lucerne does.

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a 27 grand price point deserves more refinement and performance than what the 3800 offers.  GM shouldn't get an exception for this because all the other competition will have better under the hood at that price.

[post="18660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Have you ever driven the 3800? It's extremely refined, and smoth as silk. I think the Lucerne deserves more performance and sophistication. If you meant sophistication when you said refinement then I agree with you. But the engine itself is a smooth as slik, bullitproof unit that sips gas. It's just not right for this car, IMO.

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Yeah, there is something inherently wrong with the same engine being in a 2006 MY luxury car that is in a 1993 Chevrolet Lumina APV.

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People can Edmunds bitch about the 'aging' chassies, but I'd put the G-body up against any large car in its price range in term of stiffness, safety, and road composure (depending on model). And it would win.

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The CXL V8 at 31k isn't bad. The problem with the old pushrod V6 is that it sounds less refined outside of the car. I'm sure the lucerne will sound as quiet inside as a Lexus due to Buick's recent sttempts to quell cabin noise, but it's the sound you hear when standing outside of the car that doesn't match up with more modern engines. Also, a sub 200hp rating isn't going to help the car in any comparisons. Even if the engine's torque rating is ample, the media will blast the car for only having 197hp. Thus the quality gap perception will continue.

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Just saw a Lucerne on the highway today, on the way home from work. The lines were foreign to my well trained eye. At first glance I said, that is pretty sharp, looks like a Nissan from the back...to my surprise, a Buick. It actually has a chance.

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First of all the 3800 is not as smooth as silk. I have owned everything from 1985 Park Aves to 1998 Grand Prixs, a 2000 Lesabre and Impala and have driven 2005 LaCrosses and all sorts of 90's H-bodies and such. These engines are pretty smooth and quiet in the big cars but are downright noisy and harsh sounding in the smaller cars. The LaCrosse was the only exception. It was about the same as my full sized LeSabre. However even my LeSabre had a throb when first started in the morning and didn't always idle smoothly. These engines aren't even in the same ballpark as a Camry V6 or even dare I say it a Duretec Taurus when installed in the W-bodies. They have loud sounding exhausts and are raspy when revved. After they get some miles on them they whine like a blender with bad bearings. My 98 Prix, 00 Impala and LeSabre all did this with over 50K. They all also ate intake manifolds and all but the LeSabre leaked oil out of the pan and used over a quart of oil every 1000 miles when they got up to 100K. Don't get me wrong these are indeed reliable motors but are not the mythical perfect motors that some make them out to be. As far as the Lucerne goes GM should be ashamed offering this engine is series III format with less power in a heavier car. Yes the Lucerne weights almost 400 lbs more than the LeSabre and has the same lazy 2.86:1 gears. This is for sure not going to be a quick or satisfying car in V6 form.

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Buick is on its way to becoming a niche brand. They need to do an upward march, but its core of LeSabre and Century buyers is being abandoned. The Lucerne nameplate is trying to appease luxury car buyers and entry level full-size sedan buyers. Kind of like how the final Aurora had to satisfy 88, Aurora, and 98 buyers, and the result will not be big sales.

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The 185 hp 3800 is so close in power output to the ES's 190hp that it won't be an issue for those people.

[post="18460"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


umm the ES330 is at 218hp

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The Sienna reviews on MSN tell quite the tale about the V-6.

It's the V-6 that has the problem.

http://www.licquia.org/archives/2005/06/12...nd-reputations/

[post="18671"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Have that page bookmarked or something, I'm on my 2nd engine, my friend's Camry V6 is on his 3rd, my friend's 4runner, my uncle's 1st gen Sienna, my neighbor's ES300...yeah all of us have failing motors. :rolleyes:

Sorry buster, but Toyota's 3.0L V6 runs EXACTLY the same at 125kmi as they do when purchased, problem free. If your going to insult Toyota reliability at least find an actual problem, they do exist btw. I'll save you some time Toyota engines and trannys don't make the list.

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Have that page bookmarked or something, I'm on my 2nd engine, my friend's Camry V6 is on his 3rd, my friend's 4runner, my uncle's 1st gen Sienna, my neighbor's ES300...yeah all of us have failing motors. :rolleyes:

Sorry buster, but Toyota's 3.0L V6 runs EXACTLY the same at 125kmi as they do when purchased, problem free.  If your going to insult Toyota reliability at least find an actual problem, they do exist btw.  I'll save you some time Toyota engines and trannys don't make the list.

[post="18859"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Yeah, my cousin has a '97 ES300 with 100K+ miles, and it's absolutely incredible how new it looks and drives. The engine and transmission is smoother than most brand-new cars I've driven. Everything about it is incredibly refined and precise. In fact, I'd say his is more well-made than new Camrys. Of course, it helps that he takes prestine care of it; he changes the oil every 3K, and it has (quality) cloth upholstery, and not wrinkly leather.

Yes, it's devoid of any passion, and yes, it's Japanese, so I'm prejudiced against it, but even I have to admit its quality is amazing.

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I personally think people shouldnt start complaining now. We knew everything about the car and thought it would start at 28,000 - 29,000 and no one gave a shit, now that its starting over 1000 below what we expected, everyone starts bitching....

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Buick is on its way to becoming a niche brand.  They need to do an upward march, but its core of LeSabre and Century buyers is being abandoned.  The Lucerne nameplate is trying to appease luxury car buyers and entry level full-size sedan buyers.  Kind of like how the final Aurora had to satisfy 88, Aurora, and 98 buyers, and the result will not be big sales.

[post="18813"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Excellent point.

I keep waiting for GM to acknowledge that they learned SOMETHING from the demise of Olds. However, all I can see is a repeat: fewer models that will inevitably result in fewer sales, leading to an inevitable conclusion that the brand "isn't viable."

So sad to see GM throw wave after wave of (excellent) new product at Chevy and Saturn, and basically abandon the BPG channel. It's almost like GM's resigned itself to having to cull the entire trio of brands.

The Lucerne, in the metal, is a pretty decent piece. However, the Aurora was comparatively far more distinctive (original version), and even that wasn't enough to turn the fortunes of Olds around.

Sad.

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The Aurora, while a great car, was not enough to bring Olds back from the brink. The Intrigue and Alero were still W-bodies and N-bodies respectively. Oddly, Buick is almost exactly where Olds was when it died. 1. Excellent new G-body <Lucerne/Aurora> 2. Good but not great W-body <LaCross/Intrigue> 3. Unloved SUV <Rainier/Bravada> 4. Unloved Mini-van <Terraza/Sillioette> 5. Recently demised yet popular full sized family car <LeSabre/Eighty Eight> 6. Recently demised full sized luxury car <Park Ave/ Ninety Eight> The only real difference is that Olds had the Alero and Buick has the Rendevous. Both of which sell well, but don't have enough volume to hold their respective brands.

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If Buick would have released it in a simple 2 model line-up I think they would have had a hit. Also, to really complete with the likes of Lexus and Infiniti, then only the Northstar V-8 and 3.5 DOHC V-6 should be offered. I have no problems with the starting base price, but then to really make a statement, keep your option packages simple and relatively expensive. To rebuild Buick is going to take time. It may not be as profitiable as GM would hope, but I really believe it can be done. It just cant be done overnight.

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I don't think anyone suggested that the Lucerne is M35/45 competition.

No, the competition for the Lucerne is the Grand Marquie, ES330, former Concord/LHS owners that don't like the new 300s, Camry owners that want to move up but don't like the Avalon, LeSabre, Park Ave, 88, 98 and Aurora owners.

The M35/45 competes with the CTS and STS at GM.

[post="18573"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Unfortunately Buick does! But I digress... This car can be successful if they market it right. Build the customer base before you start running your mouth. Otherwise, GM will be laughed at for overpromising and under delivering.

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Wasn't LeSabre the best selling full sized car after the 88 was axed?

[post="18516"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah, and then Impala took over that spot. Although actually, the Eighty-Eight (and Bonneville) had been losing sales in that 1992-99 generation. I don't like the Lucerne because it looks like a Chevy (and not a great one either), it has nothing on the 1998-2001 string of stylish, true Buick concepts (Signia, Cielo, LaCrosse, and Bengal respectively, or even the 2004 Velite save for "portholes"), its pricing should be at least $1,000 less still, and even though evok said there were production/finance problems, there is no valid excuse for the 3800 V-6 to be in that car, nor was there a reason for it to be detuned. I like the 3800 V-6 too, but people need to understand that GM needs to change things in order to move forward. And also the Lucerne and DTS dashboards look almost identical to the Impala's, a $22,000 starting car as opposed to a DTS Performance that can push into the $55,000 range. And all have 4-speed automatic transmissions in a world where the all-new and disappointingly average mid-size Ford Fusion has a 6-speed automatic. See the picture? This seems like a change for the worse, not the better in this case.

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If Buick would have released it in a simple 2 model line-up I think they would have had a hit.  Also, to really complete with the likes of Lexus and Infiniti, then only the Northstar V-8 and 3.5 DOHC V-6 should be offered.  I have no problems with the starting base price, but then to really make a statement, keep your option packages simple and relatively expensive.  To rebuild Buick is going to take time. It may not be as profitiable as GM would hope, but I really believe it can be done.  It just cant be done overnight.

[post="18953"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Thankyou. That's what I was saying... I'm happy someone agrees.

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Actually, after looking over the ordering guide for this car, seems VERY nice.

For example, there will be NO hubcaps (finally), but rather the base model will use one of the current LeSabre upgrade wheels.

Also, there are LOTS of exterior paint colors to choose from, more than, I think, I've ever seen on a GM car, plus a new interior shade called "Tuxedo Blue/Shale", which I'm assuming is some kind of combination deep navy blue and lighter cashmere color--very European-like.

Here's the wheels:
Posted Image
16" Machined Face Aluminum (standard CX)

Posted Image
17" Premium Painted Aluminum (standard CXL)

Posted Image
17" Chrome Plated Aluminum (optional CXL)

Posted Image
18" Premium Painted Aluminum (standard CXS)

Posted Image
18" Chrome Plated Aluminum (optional CXS)

And the rest of the option/color book stuff (To get the full print book, click Print Book, Print Model, then Print):
'06 Lucerne Options/Colors

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Have you ever driven the 3800?  It's extremely refined, and smoth as silk.  I think the Lucerne deserves more performance and sophistication.  If you meant sophistication when you said refinement then I agree with you.  But the engine itself is a smooth as slik, bullitproof unit that sips gas.  It's just not right for this car, IMO.

[post="18675"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


yes i have. on about 10+ different cars. i get stuck driving my father in laws car too often than i would rather like to.

its not worth debating why again.

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The 3.8L that was in the '02 LeSabre rental we had for a month was very quiet, smooth, and had a transmission that shifted flawlessly. At lower speeds, it was kinda punchy, but up at normal speed, it was a dog and pretty much died off, making for a few strained highway merging situations. This was with a base car, and therefore, the base axle. Similarly, my grandmother has a '99 Intrigue GX 3.8L that was built before they made the switch over to the 3.5L. It too has the punchy low speed torque feel and is very nice around town, but, like the Buick, it seems strained when the terrain gets hilly or you have to pass. Perfect example is one quite steep hill heading out of the town where she lives--at first, the car seems to be moving well. Start up the incline and it dogs so much, that I've had to push the pedal deep into the floor, wait a few seconds, and then, MAYBE, get a transmission kick down and a little more juice. For being so sprightly around town, it kinda scared me the first time I went for a longer drive in it and watched the speedometer needle sink back more and more, as the pedal went deeper and deeper. Problem-wise, they've also had a pretty good oil leak from the pan 3 times now, the last being a while ago before the warranty ran out, and it seems to be holding. Overall, I still think it's a good motor, and REALLY does sip gas. If they have the gearing and shift points calibrated right (something that seems to make a HUGE difference with this motor) in the Lucerne, the majority of V6 model buyers will be quite satisfied, just as they have been for years with LeSabre's, etc. On the other hand, there still should be something newer, lighter, much more powerful, AND still gas sipping to replace it. Think the 3.5L Toyota has in the new Avalon--regardless of whether or not you like the car's design, the engine is magnificent, smooth, silky, strong, AND very easy on gas, no to mention certain added "details" like a much nicer exhaust/running sound and perfect transmission shift points. Edited by caddycruiser

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On the other hand, there still should be something newer, lighter, much more powerful, AND still gas sipping to replace it.

[post="19089"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Insert my argument for a 250hp 3.6l V6 in the midlevel trim.

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Well, if sipping gas is a criteria for the Lucerne, I'm afraid to say that the 3.6vvt isn't the answer. I'm lucky to see 28 highway, I get 18 around town.

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Well, if sipping gas is a criteria for the Lucerne, I'm afraid to say that the 3.6vvt isn't the answer. I'm lucky to see 28 highway, I get 18 around town.

[post="19094"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


The 3800 doesn't do any better... in the Lucerne, it gets 19/28 MPG.

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The Lucerne might not be any better, but it's a lot heavier than the CTS, and the CTS also has a 5 speed vs. the Lucerne's 4-speed. What does the 3600 get in the LaCrosse? It would surely get worse in the Lucerne.

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umm the ES330 is at 218hp

[post="18858"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Perhaps he's thinking ES300, which would probably be around 197 hp under the new SAE standard.

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I'm sold... The price is right. For Christ's sake, the Lucerne CXS is priced the same as a Base Park Avenue... The Lucerne CXS is the equivalency to a 2004 Cadillac Seville!

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Now that I've seen the full options/standards sheet, the colors, the wheels, the power, etc., I too agree that this will be an awesome car--the size and solidity of the outgoing LeSabre, but finally matched with style, a high quality interior, and lots of cool features.

Even without seeing one in person, I'd put it at the top of my list if looking for a relatively large, refined, luxury sedan under $40k http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

This car seems SO, SO much nicer than the Lacrosse could ever dream of being.

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The 3800 doesn't do any better... in the Lucerne, it gets 19/28 MPG.

[post="19136"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Gee, the SS impala with over 100 more horse and 1.5 litres more of displacement, and two more cylinders makes 18/28

geez, if they need to stick the 3800 under the hood, at least put the supercharged one in there. But the 3.6 SHOULD be standard. Make the 3800 a delete option for those 10 folks that will want it. Edited by regfootball

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The 3800 doesn't do any better... in the Lucerne, it gets 19/28 MPG.

[post="19136"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I really wonder how they get those ratings. My supercharged Grand Prix gets 32mpg highway, and I average 25mpg with mostly city driving, and thats not babying it either. The only way I could get 19 city, which it what its rated, is if I floor it at each stoplight.

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There's NO way they'd ever have used the 3.8L S/C in a car like the Lucerne, since its main mission, whether they admit it or not, is to replace the LeSabre, a car that has done very well for years with the regular 3.8L. Furthermore, the S/C motor has almost always been the choice for the higher end models, not things like base LeSabre's, and though still great, it is a higher maintenance engine in comparison to the regular 3.8L, at least after some miles have passed. That's also kind of what the point of the 4.6L was and is for, since just like it moved in to replace the 3.8L S/C in the Bonneville, it's here taking over the place of what the S/C engine used to be in Park Avenue Ultra's. Also, based on something I think I remember reading some time ago, Buick, especially, wanted to get away from Supercharged/Turbocharged V6's, and instead go with the more upscale image of generally higher output and naturally aspirated V6's and V8's. Could it use some more power? Absolutely. But, like I said earlier, if they get the gearing and the transmission programming right, the 3.8L certainly won't be a slug, and most of the people buying them could car less how old the block is or what the official hp rating is. Any idea of what the % model spread might be on this car? I would assume, based on past sales of the LeSabre/Park Avenue, that the majority of Lucerne's ordered and sold will be CX's with 1 or 2 options, just like current LeSabre Custom's, but what about the CXS? The other oddity will be the CXL, kind of in an odd spot between nicely equipped and REALLY well equipped, but also offering the engines from both ends. Right now, with the Lacrosse, I hardly ever see a single CXS model, in comparison to the glut of base CX's and moderately loaded CXL's. Edited by caddycruiser

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I know my response is a little late but this is what I have to say and I'd like to see anyone logically argue with it. #1. The LeSabre has used the 3.8 liter engine as its base and ONLY engine for well over a decade. The LeSabre has ALSO been the best selling fullsize sedan in America for (I believe) over a decade as well... So why would its replacement just say "Oh, screw this venerable engine- it's too dated." The LeSabre had only 160 HP in the early 90s, it has only become more powerful with time. A 6 cyl reliable engine might be underpowered for maybe 6 people's full sized sedans on this board but for millions of Americans it wasn't just not underpowered- it was the preferred choice... PLUS you want power- buy the CXS cheapos! Pontiac is the one whose supposed to put a lot of power in even their cheapest cars- not Buick. #2. I can't believe anybody has DARED complain about the price! The projected price by Motor Trend of the '06 LaCrosse in their October 2006 issue was $36,000-$43,000. That's right! The Lucerne TOPS OUT and the BASE assumed price by Motor Trend! I was at LEAST expecting it to start at $30k. Everyone expected the CXS to be abou $40k! Let me give you an idea at how good of pricing the Lucerne is: Motor Trend would be correct in their prediction on the CX Lucerne IF you wanted an base Aveo with it. Yea- you could by ANOTHER CAR by how much cheaper the Lucerne is to its prediction. You people need to let off on Buick. This is something you just can't argue with. They hardly moved the price up from the current LeSabre. They did an amazing job with pricing.

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So why would its replacement just say "Oh, screw this venerable engine- it's too dated." The LeSabre had only 160 HP in the early 90s, it has only become more powerful with time. A 6 cyl reliable engine might be underpowered for maybe 6 people's full sized sedans on this board but for millions of Americans it wasn't just not underpowered- it was the preferred choice...


Because GM supposedly wants to move Buick upscale to compete against Lexus (an idea I am skeptical about anyway); because the LeSabre has not gained power since the 1996 model got the 205 hp 3800; because most of those millions of LeSabre buyers satisfied with the 3800 are in their 70's; and because the comparably priced Avalon has 280 hp.

However, if I were in the market for a sedan in the low $30,000 range, a Northstar powered Lucerne CXS would be very appealing.

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Because GM supposedly wants to move Buick upscale to compete against Lexus (an idea I am skeptical about anyway); because the LeSabre has not gained power since the 1996 model got the 205 hp 3800; because most of those millions of LeSabre buyers satisfied with the 3800 are in their 70's; and because the comparably priced Avalon has 280 hp.

However, if I were in the market for a sedan in the low $30,000 range, a Northstar powered Lucerne CXS would be very appealing.

[post="19450"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Very good point. The fact that the Toyota has a silky smooth and very efficient V6 that makes more power to begin with than even the upgrade V8 in the Buick will be quite an embarrasment, but Buick had to work with what they could get. Sad, but true.

Still seems like it will be an awesome car, but the powertrain will still be a sore spot, even if it's just from the "on paper" specs. Edited by caddycruiser

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27 grand for a pushrod v6 with no power..........

otherwise they might be ok pricing wise.

the 3800 is a joke offering in this car.

[post="18494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I agree it needs more power but I have too many customers that want that size a car with a 3800. Old people just don't like change and if they trust something they stay loyal to it. That's the only reason I see them putting the 3800 in it.

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Heh. As good as any Toyota engine is, I'd hardly go as far as sayin 'turbine-like'. The disappointing part of the 3800 is not its presence, but its rating. 197 vs 205 for the LeSabre. Plus, anything under 200 looks really, really bad, though not as laughable as that crappy 2.7l in the 300.

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Heh. As good as any Toyota engine is, I'd hardly go as far as sayin 'turbine-like'.

The disappointing part of the 3800 is not its presence, but its rating. 197 vs 205 for the LeSabre. Plus, anything under 200 looks really, really bad, though not as laughable as that crappy 2.7l in the 300.

[post="19506"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Hah, sorry, got my descriptive words going a bit weird. Changed it now. Either way, it's one of the strongest points of the car.

The 3.8L will do mighty fine for lower end Lucerne's for quite some time....then again, will the 3.8L EVER die? Probably not for quite some time, especially given the strangely lower MPG ratings of the theoretical replacement, the 3.9L.

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Very good point.  The fact that the Toyota has a silky smooth and very efficient V6 that makes more power to begin with than even the upgrade V8 in the Buick will be quite an embarrasment, but Buick had to work with what they could get.  Sad, but true.

[post="19474"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


just to remind people...

Toyota Avalon
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve Dual VVT-i V6
268 hp @ 6200 rpm
248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm

Buick Lucerne
4.6L Northstar V8
275 hp @ 6,000 rpm
295 lb-ft @ 4,400 rpm

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just to remind people...

Toyota Avalon
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve Dual VVT-i V6
268 hp @ 6200 rpm
248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm

Buick Lucerne
4.6L Northstar V8
275 hp @ 6,000 rpm
295 lb-ft @ 4,400 rpm

[post="19549"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


The Avalon is significantly lighter and significantly more fuel efficient, though.

Still, $31K for a V8 powered Lucerne is very good value for money. The V6 versions could be cheaper, or offer the HF3.6 as standard. I'm surprised the "simple and cheap" 3800 is only $2000 less than the "complex and sophisticated" V8. I predict rebates for the V6 models soon... they probably couldn't price it lower because of the LaCrosse.

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The Avalon is significantly lighter and significantly more fuel efficient, though.

Still, $31K for a V8 powered Lucerne is very good value for money. The V6 versions could be cheaper, or offer the HF3.6 as standard. I'm surprised the "simple and cheap" 3800 is only $2000 less than the "complex and sophisticated" V8. I predict rebates for the V6 models soon... they probably couldn't price it lower because of the LaCrosse.

[post="19576"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I was just correcting a misquote. The Northstar V8 in the Lucerne is more powerful than the Avalon's V6. Especially in torque.

I agree that Avalon will be faster, but we won't know by how much until numbers come out for the Lucerne. Regardless, in the large car segment, anything in the 7.5-sec range or lower is considered effortless power.

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just to remind people...

Toyota Avalon
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve Dual VVT-i V6
268 hp @ 6200 rpm
248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm

Buick Lucerne
4.6L Northstar V8
275 hp @ 6,000 rpm
295 lb-ft @ 4,400 rpm

[post="19549"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Whoops....boy am I just confused about the Avalon B)

I could have swore it had 280hp, unless that changed with the new measurement system. Either way, it's a pretty damn fast and economical powerplant.

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Whoops....boy am I just confused about the Avalon B)

I could have swore it had 280hp, unless that changed with the new measurement system.  Either way, it's a pretty damn fast and economical powerplant.

[post="19618"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Was 280, dropped to 268 under the new standardized rating scale.

I'd obviously rather have the Northstar. Given its track record, economy wouldn't be that much of a difference, plus the massive amount of low-end torque with good all-around performance. Plus, V8 cars got class. :)

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Buick, you just signed away your life. $27,000 for an aging full-size car with a weak V-6 engine and a 4-speed automatic transmission in 2006 against Avalon, 300, and Montego. Buh-bye Buick, hate to see you go like this...

BTW, how is Lucerne not a replacement for LeSabre/Park Avenue? Must've been stupid PR-speak for "I have nothing good to say about this car."

[post="18375"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not everything is about power. I'm not sure what the interior is like, but I'm assuming it has some luxury in it(it should if it doesn't) and if it does that justifies the higher price.... Maybe it doesn't have the power, but if it's comfortable/has features, it'll sale!

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Hah, sorry, got my descriptive words going a bit weird.  Changed it now.  Either way, it's one of the strongest points of the car.

The 3.8L will do mighty fine for lower end Lucerne's for quite some time....then again, will the 3.8L EVER die?  Probably not for quite some time, especially given the strangely lower MPG ratings of the theoretical replacement, the 3.9L.

[post="19543"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

From what I understand, the 3.8 is done after 2006. I believe after that, we have some really great things to see for the base engines in Buicks. I imagine (and hope), we'll be looking for either the 2.8L or 3.6L's and 6A's for base engines in the LaCrosse and Lucerne.

I hope!! *fingers crossed*

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