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Iran...

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So i dont know whom else i can talk about this with, so i figure, this is the lounge and anything goes... and since im not affiliated with any political or military boards... this one might give an interesting perspective...

so i'm sure most people have heard a little of the frustrations with Iran, and Isreal... and that Isreal wants to bomb Iran Nuclear facilities, and the US and G8 want to stop Iran's Uranium enrichment program...

today Iran fired off 9 TBM's(tactical ballistic missles) some long range, some short range, one that was new, that had the capacity of holding a 1 ton warhead. not sure if that was a long or short range missle... I'm sure i'll know in a few days... but nothing i have written here, is confidential and can be found at almost any news source...

anywho, i bring this up, because I'd like to see peoples reaction to this... many i have talked to, said who cares what they do... and others have said that they beleive they ought to be stopped...

next thing i was rather upset about, is obama and mcCain started discussing their opinions and what they'd do... Obama, seems to hide behind the term "Diplomacy" which could mean everything from sending letters to nuclear warfare. and McCain had mentioned that Europe needed a anti-missle system to defend itself... (well accept the fact, Kuwait is in Asia and other countries surrounding Iran, there is already an anti missile system in place, so to me sounds like he is unfamiliar with what is already going on... not so good for a supposide commander in cheif)

also, McCain jokes about "killing them with cigarettes"... to me this statement is very, not racist but, something unorthadox, so far the discussions arent about killing anyone, and thats not the goal... the goal is to make peace with them, and prevent weapons of mass discruction to end up in unsafe hands. To me it seems that statement is very trigger happy...

okay... any thoughts?

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1) Israel gets stuck doing a lot of America's heavy lifting in the Middle East.

2) Britain, France and the U.S. did the world a disservice by looking the other way in 1948. Sure, the Jews were

treated badly by the Axis powers, but did they have the right to snatch land that hadn't been theirs for 2,000 years?

Be careful how you answer that question: the 'first Nations peoples' are listening. Where do we draw the line?

3) The Palestinians deserve a homeland of their own, too.

4) Many Arab leaders no longer call for the extermination of Israel, but rather insist on a Palestinian homeland.

:duck:

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I like how Bush says that diplomacy with Iran is appeasement, but has used diplomacy successfuly with Libya and North Korea in the past couple of years. The military themselves say that opening a front in Iran is a terrible idea, because it would stretch the military way too thin, and it would ruin the recent progress in Iraq. When the head of the Joint Chiefs and the Sec of Defense say something is not a good idea, shouldn't Cheney listen? Bush's hypocrisy is just amazing.

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It is going to be a mess no matter which way you look at it...

Something tells me it own't be quiet for long.....

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It is going to be a mess no matter which way you look at it...

Something tells me it own't be quiet for long.....

:yes:

+1

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It is going to be a mess no matter which way you look at it...

Something tells me it own't be quiet for long.....

Yes, this is going to be messy... I have a lot of Jewish friends and work for a company founded by Israeli immigrants, so I've heard quite an earful lately about the Iran situation...

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It's going to get ugly...but the land doesn't in a way belong to Isreal.

However, there is a lot of empty land in the middle east, and in one sense if the Muslims/Palestinians had just decided to "make nice" they might have gotten a lot of development capital off of selling things to the Jews.

However, I would bet Dollars to Donuts that Israel won't be around in about 50 to 75 years.

Chris

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yea it'll be messy, i dont necessarily care about the drama of isreal, im just concerned of iran and its violent nature...

thats the only reason im here in kuwait, is to baby sit iran... and what do you do, when that 2-3 year old grabs a butcher knife and starts running at his baby sitter?

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as long as we're in Iraq and Afghanistan, we are the aggressors from their POV. Preemptive war is an oxymoron!

1) Israel gets stuck doing a lot of America's heavy lifting in the Middle East.

2) Britain, France and the U.S. did the world a disservice by looking the other way in 1948. Sure, the Jews were

treated badly by the Axis powers, but did they have the right to snatch land that hadn't been theirs for 2,000 years?

Be careful how you answer that question: the 'first Nations peoples' are listening. Where do we draw the line?

3) The Palestinians deserve a homeland of their own, too.

4) Many Arab leaders no longer call for the extermination of Israel, but rather insist on a Palestinian homeland.

1) uh..kinda. more like we're their parent and have to sit down with them to hold talks with their neighbors... isreal has many nukes.. no one is going to start big $h! with them

2)please. breaking up the ottoman empire was the worst thing "we" did after ww1 in the area.

3)yes. Israel needs to let the palestinians be fairly included in the state, if it's to survive in way it is now.

4)prolly, IDK.

Bush's hypocrisy is just amazing.

yes, but it shouldn't be... it's kinda expected, right? along with how wimpy the dem's are to be the "opposition party". there is opposition to this trend, hoping the ranks increase in this coming election for senators and reps, cause most likely the president "we" pick won't be any big change ( provided a miracle doesn't happen. )

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yea it'll be messy, i dont necessarily care about the drama of isreal, im just concerned of iran and its violent nature...

thats the only reason im here in kuwait, is to baby sit iran... and what do you do, when that 2-3 year old grabs a butcher knife and starts running at his baby sitter?

you know... I can't agree. cause are we baby sitting germany, UK, france, japan.... we have bases there and i don't think we baby sit them. our bases hurt us and prevent reform in those countries.

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...

2)please. breaking up the ottoman empire was the worst thing "we" did after ww1 in the area.

...

Yeah... cuz those Ottoman leaders sure were nice people and all. All they wanted was one big Muslim empire. Who cares about the non-Muslims that were "in their way"...

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you know... I can't agree. cause are we baby sitting germany, UK, france, japan.... we have bases there and i don't think we baby sit them. our bases hurt us and prevent reform in those countries.

i dont really care if you agree... i told you my job here in kuwait... is to baby sit iran... if irans missiles hit their targets, the blame would be in my chain of command... nothing on earth can out run our guided missles

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you know... I can't agree. cause are we baby sitting germany, UK, france, japan.... we have bases there and i don't think we baby sit them. our bases hurt us and prevent reform in those countries.

Um, what 'reform' is needed today in the UK, Germany, France, Japan? (I know we have bases in Italy, not aware of any in France). Those countries are all in good shape...

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help me out, does this affect my ability to drive an SUV?

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help me out, does this affect my ability to drive an SUV?

umm maybe, if we have another federal blood for oil program... or, Iraq part III?

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umm maybe, if we have another federal blood for oil program... or, Iraq part III?

Or if we go to war w/ Iran, it would be another money pit for the US like Afghanistan and Iraq have been, not to mention the human cost..

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Yes, it will get messy.

But, I don't think we will step into it directly - unless they force our hand.

See, Israel will not tolerate a nuclear Iran no matter what we say. If Israel fells that a real threat exists, there will be craters in specific parts of Iran in a big hurry. When Sadaam got too close to it, Israel bombed his facilities into oblivion. They will do the same to Iran if that country overplays its hand.

We will get the blame of course, but the chances of us actually engaging Iran in a pre-emptive

way are slim to none.

Of course this will be yet another excuse to drive oil prices up even higher.

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I believe Iran's motives are not to destroy Israel, or to lead to a war with the 'West' at all. Instead, Iran is trying to become the center of power in the Middle East, a position currently held by Saudi Arabia. Both countries absolutely hate each others guts for a variety of reasons, a main one being their religions; Saudi Arabia is mainly populated by Sunni Muslims, and Iran is Shiite.

Right now, many political and business dealings are done through Saudi Arabia. Essentially, if you want something done in the region, the people who will do it for you are the Saudi's. With this power, Saudi Arabi is seen as the representative nation for the Arab population, and Iran would like to take that crown. Iran's rhetoric towards the West, and Israel is similar to Egypt's attitude during the Nasser era. Nasser gave stirring speeches about uniting the Arab world under the banner of Pan-Arabism which would overcome Israel; however, it was merely a domestic, and foreign policy ploy in order to get respect on the world stage as Nasser really had no desire to wage war with Israel at all, because he knew Egypt would not have a chance in hell of winning, and they would lose even more territory to the Israeli's.

In my opinion, Iran is merely repeating history. Ahmadinejad has adopted a populist stance which is confrontational, and bombastic... but he is a paper tiger. He appeals to both Pan-Arabs, and the Pan-Islamic crowds, much like his predecessors Nasser, and Hasan al Bana. Iran has no desire for a war with anyone. Trade between Iran and the United States has grown almost ten fold under Bush. It still pales in comparison to trade with China or Canada, but it's still money.

The uranium enrichment is just one way to rally Arab's around Iran, because it allows Iran to puff out its chest and look tough. The leaders of Iran are smart enough to know that if they do launch a nuclear missile, or allow a terrorist organization to get their hands on one, the Middle East will be a sheet of glass within a day. Plus, on the bright side... Iran hates al-Qaeda because al-Qaeda is full of Sunni's, and we all know how well those Shiites, and Sunni's get along. :P

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Yeah... cuz those Ottoman leaders sure were nice people and all. All they wanted was one big Muslim empire. Who cares about the non-Muslims that were "in their way"...

yes, but empires typically crumble under their own weight. we didn't need to dismantle it after they lost. turkey is supposed to be secular ran, and now they're in the news about a possible muslim government overtaking.

i dont really care if you agree... i told you my job here in kuwait... is to baby sit iran... if irans missiles hit their targets, the blame would be in my chain of command... nothing on earth can out run our guided missles

ok, but unless they attack us over there, there is no reason to retaliate.

Um, what 'reform' is needed today in the UK, Germany, France, Japan? (I know we have bases in Italy, not aware of any in France). Those countries are all in good shape...

UK, the middle class is being thinned because of taxes and living expenses ,while we pay their gov't for keeping the land (AKA free money for some land). ok, maybe not in france, but i'd not be surprised if we did. we have base( s ) in isreal, the middle east and we subsidize their gov't... instead of needing economic reform to make up for the money we give them. if you suddenly were making 10% less at your job , you'd have to prolly do something different, right?

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i practice Shiite myself.

when i leave the car keys in the house and try to get in the car, i say 'OH SHIITE! i forgot the effing keys again!'

thanks, i'm here all week.

can anyone tell me if this in any way affects the Camaro or Zeta programs?

don't forget to tip the waitress, thanks.

that middle east is a effed up place. can't we just blow them off the face of the earth?

I believe Iran's motives are not to destroy Israel, or to lead to a war with the 'West' at all. Instead, Iran is trying to become the center of power in the Middle East, a position currently held by Saudi Arabia. Both countries absolutely hate each others guts for a variety of reasons, a main one being their religions; Saudi Arabia is mainly populated by Sunni Muslims, and Iran is Shiite.

Right now, many political and business dealings are done through Saudi Arabia. Essentially, if you want something done in the region, the people who will do it for you are the Saudi's. With this power, Saudi Arabi is seen as the representative nation for the Arab population, and Iran would like to take that crown. Iran's rhetoric towards the West, and Israel is similar to Egypt's attitude during the Nasser era. Nasser gave stirring speeches about uniting the Arab world under the banner of Pan-Arabism which would overcome Israel; however, it was merely a domestic, and foreign policy ploy in order to get respect on the world stage as Nasser really had no desire to wage war with Israel at all, because he knew Egypt would not have a chance in hell of winning, and they would lose even more territory to the Israeli's.

In my opinion, Iran is merely repeating history. Ahmadinejad has adopted a populist stance which is confrontational, and bombastic... but he is a paper tiger. He appeals to both Pan-Arabs, and the Pan-Islamic crowds, much like his predecessors Nasser, and Hasan al Bana. Iran has no desire for a war with anyone. Trade between Iran and the United States has grown almost ten fold under Bush. It still pales in comparison to trade with China or Canada, but it's still money.

The uranium enrichment is just one way to rally Arab's around Iran, because it allows Iran to puff out its chest and look tough. The leaders of Iran are smart enough to know that if they do launch a nuclear missile, or allow a terrorist organization to get their hands on one, the Middle East will be a sheet of glass within a day. Plus, on the bright side... Iran hates al-Qaeda because al-Qaeda is full of Sunni's, and we all know how well those Shiites, and Sunni's get along. :P

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in any case i am sure we are going to see the worlds largest sheet of glass pop up in the middle east, its just a matter of time.

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Generally, I disapprove of the Iranian government's desire to establish Muslim states throughout the middle East. Church and state should be separate.

I can not believe any information regarding their desires to make nuclear weapons. The Bush administration is totally corrupt when it comes to foreign policy. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran probably doesnt have them either. I need to wait until we get a new administration and new intelligence on Iran before I could even consider if we should be worried about them.

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Generally, I disapprove of the Iranian government's desire to establish Muslim states throughout the middle East. Church and state should be separate.

I can not believe any information regarding their desires to make nuclear weapons. The Bush administration is totally corrupt when it comes to foreign policy. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran probably doesnt have them either. I need to wait until we get a new administration and new intelligence on Iran before I could even consider if we should be worried about them.

ohh this is untrue! there was a picture that was found in the news a few days ago... a picture dated before the war started of the united states moving iraqi uranium around some 550 metric tons...

but the problem was, iran was going to invade iraq, and saddam wanted to sound powerful so he told insiders that he had weapons... this did two things, made iran back down because if we are strong against the united states, they must be strong enough to defend against iran... but saddam before he died announced he never imagine bush to attack as he did... he was assuming a clinton style air strike for a few days, and that was it... so it was okay to accept that a few things get blown up to sound strong against iran... well some 5 years later, iran still wants violence...

you are probably right about the bush administration, as he is connected with oil and the vice president is tied financially with contractors involved with the war... so both have made themselves very profitable as president...

ohh well... all im saying is if iran goes balistic, i will probably end up dead, due to the nature of my job

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I wonder if radioactive gasoline gets better mpg than regular?

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Iran isn't even close to having nuclear weapons, that's not the issue here.

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