Cmicasa the Great

RWD Cadillac Flagship Back On Track, Plus Two New Buicks Approved

226 posts in this topic

LINK

Less than a week after the New General Motors emerged from the scrapyard of Chapter 11, Section 363 Bankruptcy, three

programs among the Cadillac and Buick divisions are back on the road.

First and foremost, the program to converge the DTS and STS into a new, rear-drive flagship Cadillac sedan is back on track after a one-year hold. The program has been renamed, however (we don't have the new name, yet), and the DT7 program designation has been shelved. That suggests Cadillac also has shelved plans to build the converged DTS/STS off Australian Brand Holden's Zeta RWD platform (Commodore/Statesman, Pontiac G8 and Chinese Buick Park Avenue). Cadillac will likely use its own Sigma (CTS) platform instead, which can be stretched long enough for a large, Mercedes S-Class competitor...

Meanwhile, Buick is enjoying some attention thanks to its all-new 2010 LaCrosse. Two new models will be added in the next two years. First, GM has approved for production the smaller midsize Epsilon II-platform sedan, based on the new-for-2009 Opel Insignia. Since the Insignia was to serve as the basis for the 2012 Saturn Aura, GM already has completed all the necessary engineering work on the Opel to make it meet U.S. standards and be assembled in a North American factory...

The second new model approved for the Buick lineup is the Delta-platform Chevrolet Cruze/Opel Astra-based car, another model initially intended for Saturn. Word is that the Buick version, appearing in time for the 2012 model year, will share the Cruze's sheetmetal but with unique front and rear clips and with an upgraded interior. Presumably, Buick's attention to ambient lighting, as in the new LaCrosse, will carry forward.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why GMI members are having such a hard time with understanding how this could work. The SLS in China is 201 inches long.. or rather 2 inches longer than the 750i and 4 inches shorter than the S550. Width wise the STS is "skinnier" by about 1 inch less than the Sclass. I could easily see the new Cadillac being stretched an extra 1 wide and 4 inches long. AND WITH the things Cadillac has shown it is capable of just in it's 3 newest models the Escalade, CTS, and SRX... I'd easily say that the FLAGSHIP should absolutely be an AK-47 at a "rock fight."

I seriously still LOVE the STS... the SLS was superior to it at least in looks and interior. That was 4 years ago... To me.. it still looks better than the new 7series, A8, and new Jag XJ.. equal to the S-Class

cadillac_sls_china.jpg

U1693P33T148D166560F2100DT20070330031704

Cadillac_SLS_China_2006_4.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand why GMI members are having such a hard time with understanding how this could work. The SLS in China is 201 inches long.. or rather 2 inches longer than the 750i and 4 inches shorter than the S550. Width wise the STS is "skinnier" by about 1 inch less than the Sclass. I could easily see the new Cadillac being stretched an extra 1 wide and 4 inches long. AND WITH the things Cadillac has shown it is capable of just in it's 3 newest models the Escalade, CTS, and SRX... I'd easily say that the FLAGSHIP should absolutely be an AK-47 at a "rock fight."

I seriously still LOVE the STS... the SLS was superior to it at least in looks and interior. That was 4 years ago... To me.. it still looks better than the new 7series, A8, and new Jag XJ.. equal to the S-Class

cadillac_sls_china.jpg

U1693P33T148D166560F2100DT20070330031704

Cadillac_SLS_China_2006_4.jpg

Wait! The above pictured Caddy exists AND is RWD? WHY THE HELL WAS THIS NEVER SOLD HERE? THAT CAR IS STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mind-blowing:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cadillac will likely use its own Sigma (CTS) platform instead, which can be stretched long enough for a large, Mercedes S-Class competitor...

Well look at that, someone at GM found a brain and decided to do what many of us have been saying for them to do for a long time...use Sigma.

This is good news.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem with the SLS is that it won't pass US side impact testing. Do a quick search on Youtube and you'll find that crashworthiness is not yet a priority in China. Still this news is more promising than the XTS "flagship" built off of Epsilon II. It's from MT, though, so I don't know if I want to put any stock in it yet.

Also, I'm with you in the STS fan club. It was priced too high for what it was, but it's still a great looking car. Gently used ones are going for a steal.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The second new model approved for the Buick lineup is the Delta-platform Chevrolet Cruze/Opel Astra-based car, another model initially intended for Saturn. Word is that the Buick version, appearing in time for the 2012 model year, will share the Astra's sheetmetal but with unique front and rear clips and with an upgraded interior. Presumably, Buick's attention to ambient lighting, as in the new LaCrosse, will carry forward.

Fixed!

That is how it should be and should include 3/5 Hatches too. Differentiate it totally from Cruze.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the problem with the SLS is that it won't pass US side impact testing. Do a quick search on Youtube and you'll find that crashworthiness is not yet a priority in China. Still this news is more promising than the XTS "flagship" built off of Epsilon II. It's from MT, though, so I don't know if I want to put any stock in it yet.

Also, I'm with you in the STS fan club. It was priced too high for what it was, but it's still a great looking car. Gently used ones are going for a steal.

I traded a 2005 STS 4.6L in on my CTS-V. I went to the dealer with my STS for an appraisal... OK.. let me say this once and for all... LUXURY CARS should not ever be considered an investment because their value drops like a grown up baby's ballz when it comes time to trade...

I wasn't optimistic when I pulled her up... My boy hit some hard times recently and sold his 2006 750i to Carmax with only 23K on the ODO... and they gave him $33K... He PAID $78K for it 2 years ago...

NOW ME... figuring that since I had under 25K on the ODO.. I would get at least $24K for it as a trade... NOPE!!! They came back at first with $18K... I got up and got in the car and started pulling outta the lot... The Sales guy runs over to my car and says ... " I got U $20K..." I said "Make it $21K, and drop the V from $64K to $61K and we gotta deal...

The V is LOVELY... and I named her PEARL. :smilies-38096:

And it's not just American and German luxos.when my lilo Brother got rid of his LS430 to get his Escalade... he thought he was gonna be able to pull it off like an EVEN TRADE... He was wrong as a mofo... as they gave him $20K for a car with 45K on the ODO... BRAND NEW his would have costs $60K... now look at the math here.. and I'm mindful that I had 20K less on my STS's ODO... but his car new costs $6K more than mine yet he got $1K less at trade.. and it was an ALMIGHTY Lexus LS430... an S-Class Competitor, while I was driving a LOWLY STS.. a 5series competitor.

I Loved her SOOOOO MUCH

IMGP0542.jpg

IMGP0548.jpg

Edited by Cmicasa the Great
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wait! The above pictured Caddy exists AND is RWD? WHY THE HELL WAS THIS NEVER SOLD HERE? THAT CAR IS STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mind-blowing:

Yeah it is.. but I actually like our STS's new look better. It's more stylish. I do wish they had of taken the 2008 MCE to lengthen it and improve the interior to these specs of the SLS. Bottom line is that even if Cadillac were to simply make the CTS longer and give it the Escalade Platinum's materials and attention to detail... U would have an S-Class competitor that would be worthy of the name.

For engines.... Direct-Injecting the Northstar... or even better... using the 4.4L S/C from the Vseries detuned from 443HP to 385-395HP for the CTS, STS, and XLR... then giving the same engine better breathing elements and a slightly more aggressive exhaust and ECM tune taking the 469HP (STS-V) to at least 510HP for the Vseries program.. this for the time being would give it a class leading engine (ok ok... with exception to the AMG V12 in the SL65) this considering that in the XLR-V the 443HP engine allows it to actually STILL keep up with the SL65 despite it's 160HP advantage... Such is the engineering greatness of GM..

The main thing is that U have to realize that V8 engines.. at this time account for a small percentage of Cadillac STS sales. The DTS, ironically being FWD, has V8 sales by default... but it's really not even supposed to be in the line-up anymore.. it's counter-culture to the whole NEW philosophy.

Now.. with an "SLS" as the Flagship.. that default V8 position would fall on that car's sales in it's entirety.. but still.. in the U.S. U would still only see about 20K sales of that car.. (based on S-Class and LS numbers) Key to gaining those sales would be a diversified SLS line... with an entry level car starting at the $65K mark ending at $150K (DI 4.4L S/C 600hp Super V with 2-Mode tech )... with a POWERFUL engine for bragging rights (as that is what this segment is ALL about), a class-leading interior (which at this point is completely doable looking at the lower level CTS, Lacrosse, and even Malibu styling) but with highest grade materials and well integrated tech (as confusing to the consumer as possible as this seems to be well received), and EYE-POPPING exterior styling.. possibly a revised SIXTEEN.

This car would have NOTHING to do with Cadillac's giving a damn about CAFE... It would essentially be a 2010-style "Car Escalade".. without the negative SUV stigma. A Dual Mode version would of course be available... and would surely get better fuel economy to tout that the LS600hL... which gets the SAME fuel economy as the Hybrid Escalade...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well look at that, someone at GM found a brain and decided to do what many of us have been saying for them to do for a long time...use Sigma.

This is good news.

All I have to say is remember what Fritz said "He works for me"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

This is true.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SMK just had an aneurysm.

Don't toy with my emotions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

Sorry... but I can't subscribe to that way of thinking. TRUTH IS.. we are a privileged few here on these "Enthusiast" website. Teh general public.. about 98% of the other car buyers, don't kno ONE THING about the "XLS, DT7, WhatevertheEFF."Hell with as much press as WE HAVE SEEN over the last 3 years on the Camaro and Volt.. I kno real people who had never even seen the Camaro until they saw one on the streets.. even with teh Transformer's movie. The Volt is still an unknown to the general public.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry... but I can't subscribe to that way of thinking. TRUTH IS.. we are a privileged few here on these "Enthusiast" website. Teh general public.. about 98% of the other car buyers, don't kno ONE THING about the "XLS, DT7, WhatevertheEFF."Hell with as much press as WE HAVE SEEN over the last 3 years on the Camaro and Volt.. I kno real people who had never even seen the Camaro until they saw one on the streets.. even with teh Transformer's movie. The Volt is still an unknown to the general public.

How can you not think like that? The company flip-flops so much?! I don't care what the general public knows or doesn't know right now. I'm talking about how I feel--and GM has been back and forth for years. I'm tired of it. I am at the point where I rather stay a bit in the dark like the majority of people and see what ACTUALLY comes out. Not what could be, then won't be, then will be again, then won't be again, then oh wait, yeah, it's on yet again. Nope. Off again.

On again.

Off.

Wait... on.

I'm at the point where I can't even tell what GM is doing being one of the "privileged" who is on the "enthusiast website". GM goes back and forth so much, I forget what's on this week, what's off this week.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given GM's recent history of saying one thing, then doing another the day afterwards, I won't believe this until it rolls off the assembly line. :P

Still, it's good news nonetheless.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Granted as posted already that this is on/off guess work. I just wasn't getting the thought process in Sigma being a better chassis but they wouldn't use Zeta instead thinking to use Epsilon II? If they can't make Zeta work then this is the best choice for Cadillac if not for GM. After all Sigma was designed for exclusive use by Cadillac.

Lets hope Obama / Henderson / Bean Counters don't gum up the works.

How does the President come into this? He has nothing to do with GM's line-up. :confused0071:

Sigma should have always been the provider for the underlay of the Cadillac Flagship. But lets not forget that Zeta is essentially a derivative and heavier version of the Sigma platform.. .which was originally under development by Holden but snatched by Cadillac back in the early part of the millennium.

My hope is that in widening and lengthening the Sigma platform GM adds more Aluminum bits to it to drop the weight down... especially with AWD being apart of the probably program. I would love to see a 70% Aluminum/30% Steel Platform for Cadillac exclusively, as the expensive would dictate that they be the first to depreciate the development costs.

Edited by Cmicasa the Great
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How can you not think like that? The company flip-flops so much?! I don't care what the general public knows or doesn't know right now. I'm talking about how I feel--and GM has been back and forth for years. I'm tired of it. I am at the point where I rather stay a bit in the dark like the majority of people and see what ACTUALLY comes out. Not what could be, then won't be, then will be again, then won't be again, then oh wait, yeah, it's on yet again. Nope. Off again.

On again.

Off.

Wait... on.

I'm at the point where I can't even tell what GM is doing being one of the "privileged" who is on the "enthusiast website". GM goes back and forth so much, I forget what's on this week, what's off this week.

Problem is that in all my year sin Corporate America... every company I worked for "FLIP-FLOPPED" like that with a product here, a product there... a new finance program here or a new Finance program there. the PUBLIC DIDN'T KNO ABOUT IT UNTIL THE FINISHED PRODUCT/IDEA hit the shelves/market.

That is not possible these days.. at least amongst us "Enthusiasts." We kno about products that the gen public won't kno about for 3 years. When the companies change their minds of augment it... we are let down.. because we are disappointed over what we thought was gonna happen and didn't.

Its sorta like seeing on C&D's Website.. "The Chevy Corvette to get the Gen V Direct-Injected Engine kicking out 550 Base HP for 2011"

Then a month later we read that the HP is only gonna be 500HP and AWD as an option... and we are then disappointed.. BECAUSE and UNKNOWN SOURCE at GM said "this..." and then the OFFICIAL Release said "that." :o

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

Lovely post... and truth is that the only reason why, what I've come to kno as the "UGLY Porsche that should have been Aborted," beats the CTS-V is because it has AWD.. which helps tremendously in the cornering of the CORNER HEAVY "Ring."

Edited by Cmicasa the Great
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no production line in N.A. that produces the Holden version of Zeta. Apparently, the Camaro was so heavily modified that it can't run down the same line as the G8 (don't know why).

There is a production line in N.A. that produces Sigma and it's going to have a good bit of capacity freed up by the SRX moving to a new platform/line. LGR was putting out between 22k and 30k SRXes a year.

There is nothing wrong with Sigma and I don't understand this talk that it's aged. It can still out handle and out run an M5 and it took a $110k Porsche to steal the Nurburgring crown the $60k CTS-V held for a year..... something that could be remedied with a $200 supercharger pulley.

The Chinese SLS may not pass side impact protections as is... but that doesn't mean that it never can.

So the SLS is Sigma? If so GREAT fix the crash ratings and build it.

I figure that CTS V has a lot more life in it maybe that pulley and some tuning will give Porsche something to really work at.

This Platform thing is very worrisome GME designs a platform & GMNA uses it but GME Opels cant be built at American assembly plants. GMNA then fixes that problem (last I read) then the Same thing happens with Zeta? Granted that Zeta is flexible, it was designed to be, but its like they planned that it wouldn't be sold or built here.

I know that single males have disposable income but a low cost sedan would sure fit Chevy's mission of value. Family's have tight budgets and need room above a Cruze

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lovely post... and truth is that the only reason why, what I've come to kno as the "UGLY Porsche that should have been Aborted," beats the CTS-V is because it has AWD.. which helps tremendously in the cornering of the CORNER HEAVY "Ring."

AWD doesn't help cornering, it adds weight, which hurts cornering.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

Loading...