A Horse With No Name

An utter world of shit...

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One of my 16 year old sons friends, who is 17 managed to get drunk with a girl and they wound up having sex. Now she is claiming that it wasn't consensual and is calling it date rape. Son's friend "GARY" (Not his real name) has been in our home in and out for years. Pretty good kid...I can't imagine him raping a girl.

I don't really know what happened, but "Gary" is 20 days away from being 18 and is probably going to be tried as an adult. The judge he is going in front of is female and seems to by all accounts have a whole lot more symapthy for the girl than for "Gary."

Being 18 and being in jail with a sex offense on your record is a lousy way to start life. Sucks to be a horny teenager, I guess. My son is just crushed in every way imaginable watching his friend go through this.

I wish I had good advice for my son or his friend, but I just don't. Hell...my son has had girlfriends, this might as well be him, although he's never had sex with a girl while they were both drunk.

Chris

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Pretty much in the top three reasons for why people should never get drunk.

It sucks for the guy, but I think the law is on her side. However, I don't think it's fair to assume a female judge will sympathize more with the girl.

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I don't know what the laws of consent are in Ohio. But if he is legally able to consent to sex and she is not, then there is a problem.

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Ohio

The age of consent in Ohio is 16 as specified by Section 2907.04 of Ohio legislation. However there exists a close in age exception where an offender can be charged only if 18 years of age or older. However in that case, it is possible for both minors to be charged as "unruly" if brought to court {§ 2151.022}.

2907.04 Unlawful sexual conduct with minor.

(A) No person who is eighteen years of age or older shall engage in sexual conduct with another, who is not the spouse of the offender, when the offender knows the other person is thirteen years of age or older but less than sixteen years of age, or the offender is reckless in that regard. {§ 2907.04}.

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The problem isn't age, it's the fact that she was drunk and is saying that she was unwilling to ahve sex.

But thanks for looking that up for me. As the father of three teenagers I wonder about what kind of stunts they are going to pull.

Chris

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I'm guessing that "Gary" didn't force the girl to drink... :scratchchin:

Doesn't matter. The concepts of criminal rape involves split jurisdictions. Resistance can or cannot be necessary. There are all kinds of factors.

It's coincidental that I had class tonight where we discussed criminal rape.

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wow. tough situation. we all do stupid things (i dont drink so its worse for me because i am sober during escapades) and for the girl to get horn'd up and then decide oh no... well regrets are one thing ruining someone's life to try and cover your shame is another... one has to wonder though, were precautions taken before the deed?

this situation starkly reminds me of the whole duke lacrosse team scandal.

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We live in a sick society, one that still expects (1) men to be breadwinners and pay for dates, while AT THE SAME TIME (2) having to treat women like equals. I'm referring to the judge, who could amount to more poison thrown into the equation. Especially if she's one of these tough butch types.

One time, while channel surfing, I landed on Dr. Laura. She's annoying (and even hypocritical with respect to her own life) but she commented on how today's situation for men of having to be simultaneously traditional (old values) and deferential (new values) is a mess. She was siding with the men.

Claiming date rape is a hefty allegation. They need to look for the use of FORCE. They will probably find NO EVIDENCE of force. Without that, it's consensual...especially when you have two under-age kids porking.

Edited by trinacriabob
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Doesn't matter. The concepts of criminal rape involves split jurisdictions. Resistance can or cannot be necessary. There are all kinds of factors.

It's coincidental that I had class tonight where we discussed criminal rape.

What I mean is, the question to ask is "was it consensual until she sobered up?" Her character can be called into question anyway since she was already drinking while underage.

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What I mean is, the question to ask is "was it consensual until she sobered up?" Her character can be called into question anyway since she was already drinking while underage.

+1

Yes, that needed to be mentioned. The fact that they were BOTH drinking speaks volumes and brings their character issues under the microscope.

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In regards to "Gary" it sounds like he is going to get screwed... (Might've been a bad choice of words)

I've always thought the "cry rape" laws were a crock of $h!. But then, I can't really come up with a better solution and I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be raped, so I guess they're as good as we as a society can do.

Doesn't matter. The concepts of criminal rape involves split jurisdictions. Resistance can or cannot be necessary. There are all kinds of factors.

It's coincidental that I had class tonight where we discussed criminal rape.

That's always an interesting discussion... Here in NC, if I'm not mistaken, once said female is over the legal limit (doesn't matter who bought her the drinks, as you mentioned) it can technically be considered rape, consensual or not simply because said female is in an altered state of mind.

With that in mind, TECHNICALLY even a wife could charge her husband with rape with not much effort or sweat. Is it right? I dunno... Just glad I don't have the burden of having to decide.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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We live in a sick society, one that still expects (1) men to be breadwinners and pay for dates, while AT THE SAME TIME (2) having to treat women like equals. I'm referring to the judge, who could amount to more poison thrown into the equation. Especially if she's one of these tough butch types.

One time, while channel surfing, I landed on Dr. Laura. She's annoying (and even hypocritical with respect to her own life) but she commented on how today's situation for men of having to be simultaneously traditional (old values) and deferential (new values) is a mess. She was siding with the men.

Claiming date rape is a hefty allegation. They need to look for the use of FORCE. They will probably find NO EVIDENCE of force. Without that, it's consensual...especially when you have two under-age kids porking.

not directly saying that this constitutes 'asking for it', but as i had my kids at the mall to play again the other day (something you do when you are long unemployed) and seeing just how slutty and promiscuous girls even as young as 10-12 dress these days, i can't help but think these girls need a serious education on the messages they are sending and a serious education on understanding that its not neccessary to be fashionable and succumb to peer pressure all the time.

i am not suggesting we need to be a nation of prudes but honestly if you put out the vibe (which may or may not be the case, in this case) in the way you live, people can in face make inferences on whether you would be more than willing to put themselves in and to give in in a situation like this.

it is true about women wanting both sides of the fence. its exactly as you say. how many women want to have the job, but then really want their men to make 3x money so they can stay home if they want.

Edited by regfootball
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it is true about women wanting both sides of the fence. its exactly as you say. how many women want to have the job, but then really want their men to make 3x money so they can stay home if they want.

Yeah, reg, I hear you. I'm harshly realistic and some people don't want to hear the unfiltered view.

A lady who works across the hall from me has started opening up, telling me about how she'd like to move back to where she's from and her past life/work experiences. She told me she's only had problems with catty women in the workforce and NEVER with men. I asked NEVER? She said NEVER. I was taken aback, never thinking I'd hear something like this from her since she's assertive, an athlete (cyclist) and highly educated.

Here's what I've seen in the work force, especially when it's a pyramid-shaped professional services firm when there are frequent written evaluations:

(a) Men NEVER treat women poorly *

(b) Men treat mean in an all-over the checkerboard manner (often depends on whether they share common interests, unfortunately)

(c ) Women treat women better than they would treat men (they seem to be threatened by professional childless women who have better credentials when they worked their way up and have less interesting credentials because they had kids earlier on)

(d) Women OFTEN treat men poorly (the most likely combo of these 4 for poor treatment) **

* we have to play the daddy role and "hold their hand" professionally - you can't believe to extent to which a few women who worked for me looked to me for mentorship, go figure

** I have seen it get to the point that senior management has commented that certain women caused certain men to cycle out of the firm/company who would have otherwise stayed

Even though the OP is about "date rape," to me, the whole head trip seems to align with these 4 scenarios.

Edited by trinacriabob
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But booze is cool and sex is fun and teens are clueless about cause and effect in life.

...not that this sort of thing doesn't happen to adults anyway.

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A lady who works across the hall from me has started opening up, telling me about how she'd like to move back to where she's from and her past life/work experiences. She told me she's only had problems with catty women in the workforce and NEVER with men. I asked NEVER? She said NEVER. I was taken aback, never thinking I'd hear something like this from her since she's assertive, an athlete (cyclist) and highly educated.

The daughter of a friend of mine, who was about 16 at the time, made a comment that has always stayed with me.

She said .."I wish I was a guy. Guys can take it out in the parking lot, knock each other down in a fight, get up, shake hands, and its over and they are friends again. Girls can say one wrong thing and a four year friendship is over forever."

I find a LOT of truth to what she said.

Chris

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Good luck to "Gary" - he is really going to need it!

Sadly, it is always somebody elses fault these days: She is 16 and drunk - where the HELL are the parents of this girl? He is 17 and Drunk - where the hell are HIS parents? Who bought the alcohol? Where did this take place? There are so many fingers to point on this one it makes me sick.

"Gary" just trying to have a good time went too far...and so did "Sally"...so now when her mom/dad find out about what happened - "Sally" cries RAPE. Was NOT her fault! She didn't mean to get drunk at a party her friends made her go to. This just goes on and on...

Chris, have your son stay close to "Gary" - this is the kind of thing that can push a young man to take the "easy way out"...and that would only make this situation even more tragic.

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But booze is cool and sex is fun and teens are clueless about cause and effect in life.

...not that this sort of thing doesn't happen to adults anyway.

oh it does. people are young, hook up, have babies, get married, then they split up and go through their second teenage phase.

i see all sorts of that with the people who are my contemps.

its like they are trying to relive the whole dating / bar / hookup phase.

everyone needs a second chance to try to be happy i guess.....

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Good luck to "Gary" - he is really going to need it!

Sadly, it is always somebody elses fault these days: She is 16 and drunk - where the HELL are the parents of this girl? He is 17 and Drunk - where the hell are HIS parents? Who bought the alcohol? Where did this take place? There are so many fingers to point on this one it makes me sick.

"Gary" just trying to have a good time went too far...and so did "Sally"...so now when her mom/dad find out about what happened - "Sally" cries RAPE. Was NOT her fault! She didn't mean to get drunk at a party her friends made her go to. This just goes on and on...

Chris, have your son stay close to "Gary" - this is the kind of thing that can push a young man to take the "easy way out"...and that would only make this situation even more tragic.

when gary met sally (sorry, had to).

yeah, where were the parents. i know, you can't put a lid on fun.

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The daughter of a friend of mine, who was about 16 at the time, made a comment that has always stayed with me.

She said .."I wish I was a guy. Guys can take it out in the parking lot, knock each other down in a fight, get up, shake hands, and its over and they are friends again. Girls can say one wrong thing and a four year friendship is over forever."

I find a LOT of truth to what she said.

Chris

because guys are comfortable in their own skin. and women are masse insecure.

a guy can tell another guy to f@#k off, and its fine because he doesn't need to be loved by everyone. likewise a guy can have a bromance with another guy and be joey and chandler 'best buds', but a guy is always pretty good about satisfying his own inner happiness before another guy.

women are so focused on acceptance in so many ways, and advertising and peer pressure has their self worth reduced as close to zero as possible since birth, so.......they really focus a lot on what others think.

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She said .."I wish I was a guy. Guys can take it out in the parking lot, knock each other down in a fight, get up, shake hands, and its over and they are friends again. Girls can say one wrong thing and a four year friendship is over forever."

Never had it that heated. Generally, I've had these marginally intense raised voice arguments in an office setting that seem to shake themselves out over time. You won't be the person's lunch buddy, but you'll be able to carry on with your work.

But you're right, I think women must process their cat fights in a whole different way, it seems......hhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

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