Hudson

Cadillac died!

69 posts in this topic

You're not the only one to notice the death of the DTS... or to comment on the loss of the Northstar.

For me, Cadillac is dead because the only Cadillac car left is the diminutive CTS. Who would have ever thought Cadillac's largest car would be smaller than a Chevy Malibu... or a '79 Chevy Nova.

Yes, yes, I know a Buick-quality replacement is coming in the form of the XTS. It'll take another decade before a true flagship comes out... lovely.

Of course, its still all moot for me. GM died in the bankruptcy when they came back minus one particular marque.

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Nope, you're not the only one that noticed, Mr. Hudson. We had a thread here lamenting it a few weeks back. Some Italian dude bought the last one off the line.

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The one my inlaws DTS was a quality nightmare and they were very lucky to get the extended warranty. This car even though they like it has left them with a less than good feeling about a new Cadillac.

I was never a fan of this car as it is just not my kind of car but that is just my deal. I am willing to see what we really get with the XTS no one here really knows enough about it yet to really condem it yet. For the most the DTS shared with Buick too and few here complained about that.

Cadillac is far from done yet so lets just see what else they bring to market. Right now they are building from the ground up and the higher volume cars are getting the first work.I would not be suprised to see a larger RWD sedan in the future.

It is a shame the Northstar did not get the upgrades over time and could have become the engine it could have been for this segment. It was not a bad engine but GM just could not grow it as they had wished and killed the second gen due to the lack of funds.

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Nope, you're not the only one that noticed, Mr. Hudson. We had a thread here lamenting it a few weeks back. Some Italian dude bought the last one off the line.

I read that thread...and that's not the point. The loss of the DTS and/or the Northstar aren't as important as the lost of REAL Cadillac engines. "Some Italian dude" (really? This is how you describe Bulgari?) bought the last DTS, but that car was powered by the LAST CADILLAC ENGINE! All of the 2012 models have engines that can be purchased to power a Chevrolet or a Buick or an Opel with nothing exclusive to Cadillac.

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The DTS I drove a few months ago was not close to what a flagship should be IMO. It did not feel premium vs a typical 35K-40K car.. Just large.

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For me, Cadillac is dead because the only Cadillac car left is the diminutive CTS. Who would have ever thought Cadillac's largest car would be smaller than a Chevy Malibu... or a '79 Chevy Nova.

Cadillac's only car. 10-20 years of poor product planning, quick fixes, and stop gaps has left Cadillac with the CTS and a pair of SUVs, one that is a chromed up Chevy and another that seems awfully close.

What Cadillac was in the large car era of the late 50's to early 80's, slowly died during the 80s and 90s, but the big floaty sedan market in general died. The past image of Cadillac is dead, I think they realized this in 2002 when they did the renaissance with Sigma. However, the execution wasn't good enough and Cadillac needs to reinvent itself again if it plans to survive.

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The CTS, the only real Cadillac to me, is alive and well.

Unlike the target audience of the DTS! HEY OOH!!!

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Hope you like that CTS in White, Black, Silver or Red. That's all the luxury you get in color choice.

The CTS-V is probably quite the fun car, if you have roads nearby where you can wring the 556hp out of it. But once you get past that, the normal CTS is like a 300hp RWD G6/Regal... cramped with no trunk... and in my case, it takes 5 minutes of careful folding to get inside. Not very Cadillac-like, to me, unless I utter that Cadillac name put on a certain J-body platform. Honestly, I don't even think I care for the styling anymore on the sedan. The Coupe and Wagon are still interesting, but waning... GF thinks the coupe is the ugliest thing she's ever seen.

In the end, the only part of the CTS I'm interested in is the LSA drivetrain... maybe transferred into a clean 1980's G-body coupe, with Hotchkiss suspension upgrades. Or better yet, transferred into a clean Coupe De Ville... in place of the 8-6-4 disaster. '82 Coupe De Ville is 3784 pounds, vs. 4250 for the CTS-V... tenth a second for every 100 pounds lost... thats a '82 Coupe De Ville a half second faster in the quarter than the CTS-V.

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The 3.6 started out in Cadillacs. Engines are becoming accessories.

The 3.6L V6 is a "High Feature" engine and, as such, has always been a GM engine, designed for all brands. The Northstar engine was an ARCHITECTURE designed for Cadillac...as was the HT-series and the V8s before them. "Engines are becoming accessories" is the problem here. BMW has inline sixes that are exclusive to BMWs. Mercedes-Benz engines are not found in any other significant vehicles (niche exotics don't really count...or enhance the exclusive quality of the engines).

Cadillac engines were desired. Cadillac engines powered hotrods ("Studelac") and sports cars (Allard). Today, the same basic architecture found in the CTS powers the Chevrolet Malibu.

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Cadillac engines were desired. Cadillac engines powered hotrods ("Studelac") and sports cars (Allard).

Note the past tense...that world is long gone.

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The CTS-V is probably quite the fun car, if you have roads nearby where you can wring the 556hp out of it. But once you get past that, the normal CTS is like a 300hp RWD G6/Regal... cramped with no trunk... and in my case, it takes 5 minutes of careful folding to get inside.

Hmmm...I'm 6'0, 240lbs, found the CTS easy to get in and out of...what are you, 6'8" and 500lbs? (j/k)....

'82 Coupe De Ville is 3784 pounds, ....

Huh?? An '82 de Ville is more like 4500-4800 pounds, isn't it? That's a huge car...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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The CTS-V is probably quite the fun car, if you have roads nearby where you can wring the 556hp out of it. But once you get past that, the normal CTS is like a 300hp RWD G6/Regal... cramped with no trunk... and in my case, it takes 5 minutes of careful folding to get inside.

Hmmm...I'm 6'0, 240lbs, found the CTS easy to get in and out of...what are you, 6'8" and 500lbs? (j/k)....

'82 Coupe De Ville is 3784 pounds, ....

Huh?? An '82 de Ville is more like 4500-4800 pounds, isn't it? That's a huge car...

All ya wanted to know and then some Spec's

:smilewide:

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Comparing cross decades : size has little correspondence to weight. mercedees makes a 4500lb 2-seat roadster.

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Comparing cross decades : size has little correspondence to weight. Mercedes makes a 4500lb 2-seat roadster.

Maybe...it's still odd to think a modern midsize unibody would be heavier than an older BOF fullsize, even a downsized one..

I suppose it's just that today's cars are more 'densely packed' with heavy content and safety features...

(though I do like the idea of an LSA drivetrain in an '80s CDV...I like those old boats)

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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The CTS-V is probably quite the fun car, if you have roads nearby where you can wring the 556hp out of it. But once you get past that, the normal CTS is like a 300hp RWD G6/Regal... cramped with no trunk... and in my case, it takes 5 minutes of careful folding to get inside.

Hmmm...I'm 6'0, 240lbs, found the CTS easy to get in and out of...what are you, 6'8" and 500lbs? (j/k)....

We've been over this before. I'm 6'4" and 400lbs... however, I'm all torso. If my legs were in a normal ratio with my torso, I'd be about 6'8"~9".

When I sit in a larger car like the 2004 Grand Prix, I need to put the seat all the way back, all the way down and then tilted back, so when seated, I can usually look out the rear window. Climbing out of that hole while getting my head to clear the roofline is a real PITA. At NYAIS a few years back, the Cadillac folks asked me not to try out the CTS, instead urging me to only play with the STS and DTS. The STS was still kinda small.

'82 Coupe De Ville is 3784 pounds, ....

Huh?? An '82 de Ville is more like 4500-4800 pounds, isn't it? That's a huge car...

All ya wanted to know and then some Spec's

:smilewide:

Your specs are listing the 4100 as a V-6.

I fat fingered the 3784, its actually 3783 in the Standard Catalog listed for '82 only. Other similar years ('80-'81/'83-'84) are about 3900. I suspect the '82s got some of the early '80s short lived aluminum parts.

An '82 is mostly full of open space... just like I like my big cars.

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'82 Coupe De Ville is 3784 pounds, ....

Huh?? An '82 de Ville is more like 4500-4800 pounds, isn't it? That's a huge car...

All ya wanted to know and then some Spec's

:smilewide:

Your specs are listing the 4100 as a V-6.

There was a Buick 4.1 V6 offered in the De Ville from '80-82..extending out to '92 when the '80 body went out of production, they used a wide array of engines--the Buick V6, Cadillac 368 and 4100 (V8-6-4 and regular), the Olds diesel and 307, and Chevy 305 and 5.7..

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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There was a Buick 4.1 V6 offered the De Ville from '80-82..the 4.1 V8 was '82-84...

Ah, oddly that is an "optional" engine, hence I didn't see it. Optional, with a $165 credit. LOL.

Still, the V8 weight in '82 is 3783, the V6 column had all dashes, hence the reason I thought it had gone away in '82. Not seeing the 4.1 V-6 in '80.

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There was a Buick 4.1 V6 offered the De Ville from '80-82..the 4.1 V8 was '82-84...

Ah, oddly that is an "optional" engine, hence I didn't see it. Optional, with a $165 credit. LOL.

Still, the V8 weight in '82 is 3783, the V6 column had all dashes, hence the reason I thought it had gone away in '82. Not seeing the 4.1 V-6 in '80.

If one can believe Wikipedia, it was a late '80 option...I vaguely remember ads for the V6 version back in day..the early eighties were a strange time, Ford and GM putting tiny V8s and more V6s in their big cars, Chrysler going to all-FWD, all-ugly...

Anyhoo, back on topic..the DTS was a decent enough car, but was pretty dated and in need of replacement...unfortunately, the replacement is a smaller FWD model. Not really progress, IMO..

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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Nope, you're not the only one that noticed, Mr. Hudson. We had a thread here lamenting it a few weeks back. Some Italian dude bought the last one off the line.

I read that thread...and that's not the point. The loss of the DTS and/or the Northstar aren't as important as the lost of REAL Cadillac engines. "Some Italian dude" (really? This is how you describe Bulgari?) bought the last DTS, but that car was powered by the LAST CADILLAC ENGINE! All of the 2012 models have engines that can be purchased to power a Chevrolet or a Buick or an Opel with nothing exclusive to Cadillac.

That is my complaint, also, I don't want a Cadillac with a Chevrolet or Buick engine, I rented a CTS and drove it on a 1,000 mile trip, and believe that was the most uncomfortable auto trip I have ever been on. That POS is far from being a Cadillac.

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I'm dying here over this supposed Cadillac death...

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MY 2012 is going to be wierd for Cadillac, though...only 1 car (albeit w/ 3 body styles)...but MY 2013 brings the ATS and XTS..

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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