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Phantoms (cars the factory could have built, but didn't) have always been a passion of mine.

One great example would be a 94-96 Impala SS 2-door convertible - a car that would be a major collectible now had it been built IMO.

So, what Phantoms would you like to build if money were not an issue?

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- 193(7) 16-cylinder [452 ohv V16] LaSalle Dual Cowl Phaeton

- 1959 Buick Electra 225 Dual Cowl Phaeton, powered by an ALL ALUMINUM 430 cu.in. V16*

- "1997" Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Coupe HARDTOP with a 6-forward gear automatic trans.

- "1997" Buick Roadmaster 2-door HARDTOP with an LS1, IRS & 6-speed manual

* if you have to ask HOW? about the Motor then you do not belong on a GM forum. :wink:

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* if you have to ask HOW? about the Motor then you do not belong on a GM forum. :wink:

*raises hand!!*

oooh! pick me!!!

does it start with a motor desgined by a division with three shields, and used by the arrowhead, and eventually strapped with a turbocharger (to make it a REAL rocket ;) ) used in the early 60's Y Bodies?? maybe two of those motors on a common crank?!?!?!

i often wonder what the the 68-72 nova lineup woulda looked like if it was a full lineup offered when the nova/chevy II lineup in 62? (four door, two door sedan, two door HARDTOP :wub: droptop, and wagon

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I'd make an Eldorado like mine that pushed instead of pulled. I would also take a last-gen Riviera like I used to have, black on black, and retrofit it with Grand National engine and drivetrain (also pushing instead of pulling).

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How about an Olds '98' built from combining a '90s Roadmaster sedan with the '92-93 Custom Cruiser front end and some Olds style vertical taillights. And how about a 'Starfire' performance version of the same but with a 2dr body and '96 Impala SS drivetrain?

Or how a Pontiac 'Grand Ville' version of the '91-96 Caprice...and a performance Catalina 2+2 version based on a '96 Impala SS.

A 2dr Nomad wagon built from a '91-96 Caprice wagon.

A Mercury Marauder 2dr convertible like the concept car from '03 or so.

A Ford Crown Victoria GT500 with Shelby GT500 engine, transmission, etc.

I've long thought a mid-engined 4th gen Camaro would fun to build...mount the V8 where the back seat is, visible under the glass hatch.

Edited by moltar
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>>"...maybe two of those motors on a common crank..."<<

A lil' JB Weld and you're motorvatin' !

Just within B-59s: I love to build a 'Estate Coupe' pickup,

an extended deck Electra 225 with the XP-706 double-bubble rear glass,

and the XP-75 Skylark 2-seat coupe.

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The RWD G-body platform would never have been axed.

Chevy Nomad on the Kappa platform.

Lincoln LS V8 coupe

Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan / Lincoln MKZ coupe, Duratec 35 sport models for the Fusion and Milan

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I still wonder about the backstory on a phantom I used to see in Ohio...it was a gray '85-86 Buick Electra 4dr stretch--a mild stretch, maybe 4 inches....thicker C-pillars and longer rear doors. Since Ohio used to be home of many professional car makers (Flxbl, S&S, I think were in Ohio) maybe it was built by one of them..

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2003-2009 Camaro/Firebird, based on the Holden VW architecture.

A V8 option for the S10. (Heck, so many people did their own V8 conversions anyway)

1997+ 2dr Tahoe.

Manual tranny options in V6 N bodies and W bodies

Cobalt convertible

The Nomad

The Bel Air (the revised one)

The Sixteen

The Cien

THe Aura conept, as it was.

The G6 concept, as it iwas

The Velite

the list goes on and on....

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Chrysler Airflite, the RWD midsize concept based on a shorted version of LX, as opposed to the FWD craptastic Sebring that tried to emulate it.

Chrysler Firepower. It was completely doable...Viperp latform with the 6.1L Hemi...would have made a great GT replacement for the Crossfire.

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I'd make an Eldorado like mine that pushed instead of pulled. I would also take a last-gen Riviera like I used to have, black on black, and retrofit it with Grand National engine and drivetrain (also pushing instead of pulling).

I always liked these two ideas, not outrageously creative

but a solid idea of making 1+1 = > 2. RWD would make

the already cool 95-99 G-body Riviera & gorgeous, sleek,

sharp-dressed '67 Eldo into pure perfection...

Well, so long as it also involved taking a sawzall to the

B-post on the Rivy, installing some rear-side window

regulators, custom cut glass & some fabrication.

Oh, and BTW, you know EVERY good UPS-er knows that

PUSHING IS THE PROPER METHOD OF MOVING LARGE OR

HEAVY OBJECTS!!! NEVER PULLING!!!

PULLING PRODUCES EXCESS STRAIN ON THE BACK,

JOINTS, MUSCLES & WASTES ENERGY.*

So in that vein I guess it's about time everything except

for the Mini, Civic, Aveo & other econoboxes convert to

RWD, it's for everyones good!

* that's straight out the UPS (pre-loader)

"methods handbook", based on 101 years of service. :AH-HA_wink:

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1997+ 2dr Tahoe.

Chevy Tahoe 2-door SUVs were produced until 1999 (GMC stopped producing the Yukon 2-door in 1997).

I would have loved to see the traditional full-size 2-door SUV remain in the line-up, especially with the 2000 redesign (GM explored this concept, producing 3 red Tahoe 2-doors, in addition to the K-5 Blazer concept truck of 2001). Here are two pictures for proof:

tahoe_2.jpg

tahoe_2dr_21.jpg

And it's story can be found here: click!

And due to the 2-door's popularity much further south, Dodge did bring back the RamCharger for Mexico only in 2000:

00ramcharger002.jpg

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The HSC was pretty cool... nothing earth shattering.

Something along those lines, esp. stylistically,

should have replaced the NSX in like 1997 or 1999.

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I'd focus more on engine swaps or doing bolt-on projects, stuff that seems to naturally lend to the host car, more so than such sacrilege as converting fronties to rear-drive or putting the exterior under the knife.

I'll post my examples later on.

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I'd focus more on engine swaps or doing bolt-on projects, stuff that seems to naturally lend to the host car, more so than such sacrilege as converting fronties to rear-drive or putting the exterior under the knife.

That's not sacrilege.... FWD is sacrilege!

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That's not sacrilege.... FWD is sacrilege!

How about converting RWD to FWD? That would be a bold move..... imagine....converting a 4th gen Camaro to be a FWD turbo 4! :)

(No more insane than some of the other ideas here.. )

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How about converting RWD to FWD? That would be a bold move..... imagine....converting a 4th gen Camaro to be a FWD turbo 4! :)

(No more insane than some of the other ideas here.. )

Excuse me for a sec... I think, eww... I just threw up in mouth a little bit!

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I think some of you are missing the point here just a bit. A Phantom isn't just an engine swap, it isn't a full-on custom (changing the drive wheels etc.), and it isn't a concept car brought to life (unless it is on a production platform.

These would be Phantoms:

A 2-door Tahoe

A convertible GTO

a G8 coupe

A Solstice sedan

A '72 Chevelle sedan delivery

A Mustang wagon

and so on...

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I would also make a proper two-door panel truck of my generation of Suburban ('73-'91), as well as a two-door barn door K5 Blazer from this generation.

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Camino:

I get it but you gotta remember people these

days lack imagination & therefore are often

times easily impressed.

This is why kids spend as much time as it

would take YOU to drop a Poncho 455, 6-spd

& custom IRS in a '79 Sunbird, just to drop a

1.8 liter four cylinder V-tec into a (still FWD)

Honda Civic that left the factory in Nippon

with a 1.6 liter four cylinder motor, apply 4

square yards of decals, custom deep-dish

20" rims, 75 yards of day-glo-green wire

insulation tubing & better still: a dozen+ TV

screens in every nook & cranny.

My example of garden variety "Phantoms"

- '89 Grand Prix Turbo Convertible (3.1 Turbo GP + Olds Cutlass Supr. ragtop)

- '83 Imperial (bustleback) pillar-less hardtop, 440-powered

- '80s Mercedes Benz "560SECL"? pillarless 4-door hardtop*

* the one I had in my signature up until yesterday...

any of you care to tell us how the crazy germans managed

to sink all that glass into the rear doors?

I've got two ideas.

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I believe a "Phantom" is a vehicle that could have been built, but wasn't. It is a project that looks as if it should have come off the assembly line... and it is based on a production vehicle. For example, a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest "El Camino". I believe my '81 Bonneville "Trans Am" in that recent thread qualifies, please Camino, correct me if I'm wrong.

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I believe a "Phantom" is a vehicle that could have been built, but wasn't. It is a project that looks as if it should have come off the assembly line... and it is based on a production vehicle. For example, a Buick Skylark or Pontiac Tempest "El Camino". I believe my '81 Bonneville "Trans Am" in that recent thread qualifies, please Camino, correct me if I'm wrong.

You have it exactly right, Mr. Blu.

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Camino:

I get it but you gotta remember people these

days lack imagination & therefore are often

times easily impressed.

This is why kids spend as much time as it

would take YOU to drop a Poncho 455, 6-spd

& custom IRS in a '79 Sunbird, just to drop a

1.8 liter four cylinder V-tec into a (still FWD)

Honda Civic that left the factory in Nippon

with a 1.6 liter four cylinder motor, apply 4

square yards of decals, custom deep-dish

20" rims, 75 yards of day-glo-green wire

insulation tubing & better still: a dozen+ TV

screens in every nook & cranny.

Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

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Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

That's some very sad commentary there.

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I still wonder about the backstory on a phantom I used to see in Ohio...it was a gray '85-86 Buick Electra 4dr stretch--a mild stretch, maybe 4 inches....thicker C-pillars and longer rear doors. Since Ohio used to be home of many professional car makers (Flxbl, S&S, I think were in Ohio) maybe it was built by one of them..

Actually when I needed a good 307 Olds motor for my Cutlass when I was in college, I pulled a nearly new (1300 mile) 307 from a very similar car in an Indiana junkyard. That Buick was specially built for a funeral home and totalled when nearly new.

I wish there were a good field guide to funeral home vehicles and ambulances, as well as other "specially bodied" vehicles.

Chris

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Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

The 5.0 Mustang thing isn't really my thing but I can see it.

The Civic thing I can see if you want a lightweight FWD car to play with that has a large aftermarket.

But once an economy car, always an economy car. Actually as I have said before here I don't mind small cars if they are unique in some way. Cooper S, Volvo C-30, Pontiac Solstice = Pure lust IMHO.

Chris

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Actually when I needed a good 307 Olds motor for my Cutlass when I was in college, I pulled a nearly new (1300 mile) 307 from a very similar car in an Indiana junkyard. That Buick was specially built for a funeral home and totalled when nearly new.

I wish there were a good field guide to funeral home vehicles and ambulances, as well as other "specially bodied" vehicles.

Chris

The car I saw was a stretched FWD Electra, though, which was what was so unusual about it. I've seen a 6dr RWD early '80s Le Sabre before..

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And just to confuse the issue, I'd call this one a factory phantom:

trashamwagon54ce92dif9.jpg

By CaminoLS6

GM built a few of these, but they didn't make production due to costs.

I would go all the way and build a copy of the Ferrari powered Firebird that GM built in the 1970's.

Chris

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The 5.0 Mustang thing isn't really my thing but I can see it.

The Civic thing I can see if you want a lightweight FWD car to play with that has a large aftermarket.

But once an economy car, always an economy car. Actually as I have said before here I don't mind small cars if they are unique in some way. Cooper S, Volvo C-30, Pontiac Solstice = Pure lust IMHO.

Chris

Yeah, no matter how much cash you pour into a Civic, it's still a Civic...I've never been into the hop up or hot rod scene...but I know that a lot of 20 somethings in the '90s poured tons of cash into hopping up 5.0 Mustangs... I kept my Mustang GT bone stock, I didn't have the time or inclination to modify it...I was too busy with college and grad school through '97...

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Back in 1990, GM had plans to produce Beretta convertibles, based on the Indy Pace car of that year, GM actually produced about 100 of them.

I watched GM scrap 75 of them. I hear only one escaped that fate.

berettapc4vm4.jpg

It's amazing some of the cars that get crushed, which is just a pet peeve of mine. The first ever GNX (pre-production prototype) was donated to a school's automotive department in Indiana on the grounds that it would be crushed when they were done with it.

Chris

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Yeah, no matter how much cash you pour into a Civic, it's still a Civic...I've never been into the hop up or hot rod scene...but I know that a lot of 20 somethings in the '90s poured tons of cash into hopping up 5.0 Mustangs... I kept my Mustang GT bone stock, I didn't have the time or inclination to modify it...I was too busy with college and grad school through '97...

I am into convertibles big time and would like a Z28, Firebird or Mustang convertible from that general era...but time moves on and my real current lusts are either a preserved pre war car (plane jane Ford or Chevy with a cool story would be great) or an oddball more current production car.

Chris

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It's amazing some of the cars that get crushed, which is just a pet peeve of mine. The first ever GNX (pre-production prototype) was donated to a school's automotive department in Indiana on the grounds that it would be crushed when they were done with it.

Chris

Product liability is a bitch. That's why they crush 'em, to keep the lawyers happy.

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Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

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I am into convertibles big time and would like a Z28, Firebird or Mustang convertible from that general era...but time moves on and my real current lusts are either a preserved pre war car (plane jane Ford or Chevy with a cool story would be great) or an oddball more current production car.

Chris

I've been thinking about an '05 and up Mustang GT convertible....I'm looking forward to seeing how the '10 restyle looks, and how the Camaro convertible looks in person. Either of those would be a great 40th birthday gift to myself, to enjoy on the Colorado or Ohio backroads... I deeply miss driving the twisty backroads of Eastern Ohio in my 5.0.

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I've been thinking about an '05 and up Mustang GT convertible....I'm looking forward to seeing how the '10 restyle looks, and how the Camaro convertible looks in person. Either of those would be a great 40th birthday gift to myself, to enjoy on the Colorado or Ohio backroads... I deeply miss driving the twisty backroads of Eastern Ohio in my 5.0.

Trust me, I'm making up for lost time for both of us with my Miata!

Chris

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Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

I've seen pics of that Caprice convertible..it was very cool. Also in '66, Ford sold some very cool 4dr ht LTD limosuines, maybe 1/2 dozen were built by Hess & Eisenhardt or another coach builder...I'd love to see one of those in person..

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Trust me, I'm making up for lost time for both of us with my Miata!

Chris

Sweet...I have to get back there and visit my Mom and brother before winter....and take the 5.0 out on some of my favorite roads in Tuscarawas, Holmes, Carroll, Guernsey counties....RT39, RT800, RT541, etc...

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Sorry to post slut here, but this is a cool thread!

I would build a two door Vista Cruiser with a 442 package...70-72 bodystyle.

Or a 4 door 66 Caprice convertible. GM actually built one of these (not sure if it was 66 or 67) as a show car and then destroyed it. Kind of like a suicide door 60's Lincoln, only way more cool.

Chris

Legend has it that GM did build a few 442 wagons.

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Actually 3 to be exact.

What I want to know about is 1964. I heard that the 442 package was available on any body style, and that 4 door sedans and wagons were built.

A 4 door 64 442 would be an awesome family cruiser, I think.

My favourite "rare" but true Olds is the 66 442 Tripower W-30 that was special ordered for drag racing, and painted (IIRC) yellow with a red vynal top and a turqoise interior. THAT would be an unusual car.

Oh, and another interesting couple bits of Olds Trivia...a real Documented 442 W-30 Tripower 66 car was here for sale in Ohio awhile back. THAT has to be a damned rare Olds, as they supposedly only built a total of about 100 or so tri-power 66 W-30 cars.

One of the dealers that helped GM decide to build the W-30 Tripoer cars had his son killed in one when his son used the car to show off for his friends.

Automobile Quarterly ran a great article on these cars a few years back and I'm trying to remember the rest of the article...Oh, and I may be off on the 100 figure, but it wasn't many cars.

Chris

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What about merging the two threads, Phantoms and this should be mine? I'll take a 87 El-Camino pick em up with an SS front end, but made into a convertible, like GM did with a (1965, I believe) El Camino for a show car.

I would much rather actually have THAT than a Prius.

Oh, and did you know that all Prius come with navigation systems? They drive themselves from one self righteous destination to another...

Chris

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Mmmm..rice. I think I may have a Thai curry w/ rice for dinner. Or chicken fried rice. Or some basmati rice with kebabs.

I wish I still lived in either Atlanta or Chicago, great ethnic food both places!

Seriously, I think it says something that there are no really crative ways to modify most Asian cars.

Chris

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Oh, and did you know that all Prius come with navigation systems? They drive themselves from one self righteous destination to another...

Chris

My coworkers with Priuses laugh when I refer to them as a 'Pious'...

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Well, the kiddies hop up '92 Civics because that is what is readily available. In the real world, there aren't any '79 Sunbirds..I can't remember how many years it's been since I've seen such an animal. The Civic is to the younger generation what the 5.0 Mustang was to my generation.

Yup.... 2008 sucks, there's not too many cheap '67 Camaros,

let alone '32 Fords kicking around, there's a LOT of truth in

your statement, however it's NOT entirely true.

In the past three years I've found dozens of cars that YOU

guys on this forum would consider extinct, like an unmolested

'62 Buick Special, not one but TWO '84 Datsun Maxima sedans,

both with the 5-speed manual trans., dirt cheap RWD luxury

yachts both classic (Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles...) & contemporary

like my current MB & the Infiniti Q45...

But most of today's kids can't think outside the box, just like

their Camry driving parents they aim LOW even when they aim

HIGH. Avalons and Ford 500s are NOT cars to aspire to, even

if you grew up poor you can have higher standards than that.

CAR fanatics should be people who think outside the box, not

go with convention and just do like their neighbors.

The world needs another Civic with a cold air intake & oversized

turbo like I need a hole in my head!

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I always call it a "pr-ISSS" like Opie and Anthony.

(Anthony drives a Cadillac Escalade BTW)

----

NOw as far as that "Prius Convertible" it's not a convertible

if it has not only FRAMED doors but $% permanent roof

structure from the top of the b-pillars!

It's like a "pseudo-webasto-roof" sardine-can special like

some French pile of garbage from the 1970s.

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Some of those members of that PriSSS forum are grade-A morons!

Typical Toyopet-humpers!

WHATZ a PHUNERAL KOACH!?

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What about merging the two threads, Phantoms and this should be mine? I'll take a 87 El-Camino pick em up with an SS front end, but made into a convertible, like GM did with a (1965, I believe) El Camino for a show car.

I would much rather actually have THAT than a Prius.

Oh, and did you know that all Prius come with navigation systems? They drive themselves from one self righteous destination to another...

Chris

Need pics of that '65 vert Camino!

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I kinda wish they would have put the Turbo 3.8 from the Grand National in the Cutlass 442. The Olds 307 wasn't bad, but something like a 442 deserves more than 180 hp. Oh, and I wish GM would've built the FE3X concept for the Cutlass.

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53216923_pr.jpg

The GM divisions toyed around with numerous 4-dr convertibles. ^ '66 Chevy Caribe', XP-834.

Same name, different take - how many had heard of the '68 Camaro Caribe' :

camarocaribe_resized.jpg

I hadn't. SO MUCH GM history trickling thru the cracks over the years........ :mad:

Edited by balthazar
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I'd like to see a number of extended deck phantoms, either close-coupled or true coupes. '58 or '60 Series 62 or a '64 GP. Picture a 2-dr hardtop '60 Cadillac, but with no rear seat & the backlight moved up 2 feet. Love the short hood / long deck look... ie:

1952%20Packard%20special%20speedster.jpg

Edited by balthazar
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Then again, I can't think of any. None that C&G's taste Nazis would appreciate anyway.

There was this company that would advertise in the duPont Registry capable of making a convertible out of just about any coupe or sedan. I've moved on from caring to do that to any car in particular, however.

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Back in 1990, GM had plans to produce Beretta convertibles, based on the Indy Pace car of that year, GM actually produced about 100 of them.

I watched GM scrap 75 of them. I hear only one escaped that fate.

berettapc4vm4.jpg

Now that would have been cool....

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A Cobalt hatchback.

A Commodore-based '04 Grand Prix instead of the botox-inflated blob that we got, to complement the GTO.

Along the same lines, a GTO with the VZ Commodore front fascia instead of the wimpy Monaro one. I bet that alone would've made it more popular.

I've got so many but I can't think of them all right now.

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A Cobalt hatchback.

Or conversely, how about an Astra coupe (meaning the current Cobalt/G5 with an Astra front end, not the old Astra coupe that actually came out the factory)

ETA: For my own idea, I was looking at the Monte Carlo (the final generation) and thought it would make a nice droptop (since there are currently a billion of them out there, and no one would miss one being cut up)

Edited by LosAngeles
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but how far does this go i mean What if

- 1974 Caprice Convertible

- 572 ci v8

- 6 speed manual

- C6 Suspension

- Leather Racing seats.

That would be a crazy ass ride that i would do anything to have.

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I want to learn about the Monte Carlo Convertibles-first gen. People have built them by crossing Monte's with Chevelles, but were there not a few prototypes or a few released from the factory-I can't remember but it seems like I read something like that a few years ago.

Also, the 66-67 Nova as a ragtop makes a good looking car. I've seen a couple of these custom built as phantoms.

I would also like to see a first gen Camaro with a turbo six, like the Pontiac Firebird Sprint.

Chris

Edited by 66Stang
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I want to learn about the Monte Carlo Convertibles-first gen. People have built them by crossing Monte's with Chevelles, but were there not a few prototypes or a few released from the factory-I can't remember but it seems like I read something like that a few years ago.

Also, the 66-67 Nova as a ragtop makes a good looking car. I've seen a couple of these custom built as phantoms.

I would also like to see a first gen Camaro with a turbo six, like the Pontiac Firebird Sprint.

Chris

I have a GM accessories catalog that features a first gen Monte convertible on the cover, so I'd say that they nearly made production.

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The V12 Caprice had a motor borrowed from a BMW 7.

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*Whistles.*

images2.jpg

images3.jpg

YJ, could you please resize those pictures.. I have to scroll all over the place just to view those large suckers!! :neenerneener::P

GM/GMC had me really excited when they showed the Syclone II (and yes, there was even a Typhoon II developed). Word back then was that GM was developing the new turbo & AWD system to be used when the Sonoma was replaced. Geez how quickly that program died out :rolleyes:

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YJ, could you please resize those pictures.. I have to scroll all over the place just to view those large suckers!! :neenerneener::P

:smilewide:

Those are the only two photos I can guarantee you'll find of the Syclone II prototype on the internet.

GM/GMC had me really excited when they showed the Syclone II (and yes, there was even a Typhoon II developed). Word back then was that GM was developing the new turbo & AWD system to be used when the Sonoma was replaced. Geez how quickly that program died out :rolleyes:

56k users beware! :rotflmao:

images4.jpg

images5.jpg

images.jpg

The Typhoon II went on to be a SEMA showcar, actually.

You could build your own "second-gen" Sy/Ty. Just use the all-wheel drive system from the Bravada, and install a 4.3L V6 with a turbo and a five-speed, and presto!

Edited by YellowJacket894
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