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GM asks Congress to kickstart its heart with ambitious plan


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General Motors has just revealed the plan it has submitted to Congress today, and the details show just how far the largest U.S. automaker is willing to go in order to secure bridge loans from the federal government. The plan includes selling Saab, possibly killing Saturn and scaling back Pontiac, as well as reducing dealers and shedding more workers, among other things. Here's the breakdown...

  • Focus on "core brands": Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac
  • Launch predominately high mileage, energy-efficient cars and crossovers
  • Sell Saab, HUMMER
  • Sell or kill Saturn
  • Reduce Pontiac to a "niche" brand
  • Trim dealerships from 6,450 to 4,700
  • Reopen talks with UAW to cut manufacturing costs further
  • Reduce total workforce from 96,000 to 65-75,000
  • Negotiate with lenders, remove $35.6 billion in debt

To do all this, GM is asking for a total of $18 billion in loans, which is considerably more than the $10-12 billion that CEO Rick Wagoner requested in front of Congress a few weeks ago. It needs $12 billion in loans by the end of next March to make it through the rest of 2009 and another $6 billion in revolving credit if conditions don't begin to improve by then. The troubled automaker also states that it needs $4 billion by the end of this month to continue operating and intends to start repaying the loans by 2011.

In exchange for government loans, GM is also open to a government oversight board that would monitor how the money is used, as well as giving taxpayers a stake in the company. Also, not only would Rick Wagoner get his salary dropped to $1, a number of other unnamed senior execs would get pay cuts, too.

Is it all enough? Sound off in the comments after reading the official press release from GM after the jump.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/gm-asks...ambitious-plan/

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I like this plan for the most part. I read that Buick would become Opel instead of Saturn; I'd rather Saturn have the Corsa, Astra, Sky, Vue and Buick get the SWB and LWB EPII's and a TE, but I suppose GM thinks it should make one brand (Buick) have a strong full model line, rather than two brands have strong half model lines.

Pontiac = Solstice, small Alpha, midsize Alpha, I hope.

Apparently GMC isn't on the chopping block, which makes sense and doesn't at the same time. The brand doesn't cost much to make products for, but at the same time the products are direct overlap with Chevy trucks.

The plan clearly is built around the dealers, if you think about it. It's easy enough to deal with the less than 500 Saturn, Saab, and Hummer dealers. It would be much harder to deal with the probably 1500 dealers that sell either Pontiac, Buick, GMC, or some combination of them.

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Interesting...Buick is way more niche than Pontiac is now. Though I wonder what Pontiac sales # are compared to Buick if you factor out fleet #s.

Edited by moltar
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In post #171 in this thread (http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?sh...0&start=160), I attached the 37-page PDF file of the document GM submitted to Congress.

Interesting..that should make good reading tonight.

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Interesting...Buick is way more niche than Pontiac is now. Though I wonder what Pontiac sales # are compared to Buick if you factor out fleet #s.

But we don't know entirely what is in the pipeline. It seems to me that Buick has far more growth potential with a chance at higher profits than Pontiac does.

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Anyone know where I can find the Chrysler .pdf?

EDIT - found the Autoblog link... the document is, according to Chysler, "proprietary and confidential" but Autoblog published it anyway...

Edited by ZL-1
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I skimmed through quickly... GM plans to have 29 cars/crossovers and only 11 "trucks" come 2012. I'm trying to think what those trucks would be. Knowing we will have only GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac offering trucks (or at least I would assume so). Currently, those brands only have 12 trucks. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Colorado, Canyon, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, ESV, EXT, I believe are the only truck-based vehicles currently available besides the T360s and Hummers. "Crossovers" don't count. Perhaps the Canyon is going away...

Either way, it will be much more fun guessing the 29 cars (down from 31 today, but it sounds as if Saab isn't in the 29 and Pontiac's share will be reduced).

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Anyone know where I can find the Chrysler .pdf?

EDIT - found the Autoblog link... the document is, according to Chysler, "proprietary and confidential" but Autoblog published it anyway...

Well, Chrysler being a private company (unlike Ford and GM) I would expect them to keep it out of the public domain.

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I skimmed through quickly... GM plans to have 29 cars/crossovers and only 11 "trucks" come 2012. I'm trying to think what those trucks would be. Knowing we will have only GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac offering trucks (or at least I would assume so). Currently, those brands only have 12 trucks. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Colorado, Canyon, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, ESV, EXT, I believe are the only truck-based vehicles currently available besides the T360s and Hummers. "Crossovers" don't count. Perhaps the Canyon is going away...

Either way, it will be much more fun guessing the 29 cars (down from 31 today, but it sounds as if Saab isn't in the 29 and Pontiac's share will be reduced).

14 trucks--don't forget the Express and Savanna.

I can see the Canyon going away..it's a pointless rebadge, and I could see the BOF Escalades going away if the next Escalade is Lambda based as has been rumored.

Well, SAAB has 2 cars, so if you cut them, you have 29. :) Does the 31 cars include crossovers?

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Those rooting for Pontiac should be happy that it appears to be spared being on the chopping black. Indeed, being a niche brand of a few very focused vehicles could be the best plsn ever for it.

I am very happy indeed is this offical? As long as they live, and does this mean we will get rebadge Opels and Holdens along with some unique product? That is me reading between the lines if Saturn will get the axe. I like the sound of this plan I would focus GMC for commercial trucks (medium duty, and get rid of the Kodiak) and also luxury Denali models. This is frankly a good plan and I think GM can do it, so long as the core and old brands Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Pontiac all stay. Works for me. Thank God for Pontiac, even if they never make another SUV again (which maybe they shouldn't) I at least have mine and love it. :AH-HA_wink:

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I can go for this plan as it was many here assumed already accept for the Pontiac Niche move. I discounted the niche ideas as I never though GM would go for it.

Saab is already for sales along with Hummer. Once things play out in DC look for both to sell quickly.

I still thing we will see Holdens and the Buick/Opel Insignia here as a new Buick. Lets face it they have some great Buicks in China that will sell her just fine.

The GMC is still something I think we could do without. I know they want to keep a truck in the Buick/Pontiac dealers but with less trucks being sold GMC will have to cover the crossovers.

The next question is will DC bite on this 18 Bill is asking alot. Also will GM stick to it's game and work together as one for once. They as we all know have been their own worst compitition/ememy.

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We are back to a waiting game again before we really know what this means.

First we will have to wait for Congress.

Then for specifics from GM.

Don't count any chickens yet.

This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

Edited by hyperv6
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This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

Don't jinx it! :AH-HA_wink:

Seriously, I hope that this is the case.

Over at CZ28, GuionM suggested that GM give Holden Pontiac as a gift along with more independence.

That idea made my mouth water.

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Don't jinx it! :AH-HA_wink:

Seriously, I hope that this is the case.

Over at CZ28, GuionM suggested that GM give Holden Pontiac as a gift along with more independence.

That idea made my mouth water.

Would this mean we will still get them sold in US then go for it.

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This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

IMHO, once Niche Pontiac became "cool", sales would push it right out of niche status... like in the '70s. Shame Olds couldn't have been transitioned into a niche.

I still like the idea of a G3 (or A segment) pocket rocket.

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IMHO, once Niche Pontiac became "cool", sales would push it right out of niche status... like in the '70s. Shame Olds couldn't have been transitioned into a niche.

I still like the idea of a G3 (or A segment) pocket rocket.

...and perhaps push Buick into a niche unless they perform miracles with that brand.

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Horray, Pontiac lives! Here's to hoping GM will finally revive them with the right product when things are more stable.

I am also pleasantly surprised to see Rick taking the $1 thing; I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting him to do it for some reason. These symbolic moves are what the Big Three need to do to win back public support.

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>>"Apparently GMC isn't on the chopping block, which makes sense and doesn't at the same time. The brand doesn't cost much to make products for, but at the same time the products are direct overlap with Chevy trucks"<<

"Overlap" does not matter now- it's all about the business case. GMC is the #2 division at GM saleswise and it's heavy profit. Killing it is like buying a new triplet of corporate jets.

Edited by balthazar
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Those rooting for Pontiac should be happy that it appears to be spared being on the chopping black. Indeed, being a niche brand of a few very focused vehicles could be the best plsn ever for it.

I agree 100% I'd rather have two or three niche products that true to the essence of Pontiac's focus than warmed over products lifted from other brands. Theoretically, Pontiac could be a real hot brand.

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...and perhaps push Buick into a niche unless they perform miracles with that brand.

I know it's hard to look past what's in the present and immediate future, but Buick's potenital is great. It won't take a miracle to turn Buick around. Just the right product, brand identity, and marketing, IMHO.

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I know it's hard to look past what's in the present and immediate future, but Buick's potenital is great. It won't take a miracle to turn Buick around. Just the right product, brand identity, and marketing, IMHO.

I see it as the tallest order in this plan. I really hope it works, but it will be tough.

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This it the best thing that could happen to Pontiac. They can focus in on true perfortmance cars and hav none of the pressure of selling volume. This is what could make Pontiac cool again.

No G3's no lame G6 but true performance cars they can sell at what the maket will accept. They can really be a AMG or HSV of GM of NA.

Best yet no Avis cars!

My thoughts exactly. It doesn't even mean they have to be gas guzzlers either. Just look at Lotus. Pontiac should have a next gen Soltice, and a larger RWD coupe that every light weight and a potent turbo inline four. If they're successful, maybe they could have Boxster or Cayman competitor... both are models I don't see Caddy every trying to compete directly against. They should stay focused on MB. As mentioned prior in this thread, I never thought that GM would even consider simply shrinking Pontiac and narrowing it's focus. IMO, it's a good thing; it liberates Pontiac to stay true to it's identity.

Edited by titan
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I see it as the tallest order in this plan. I really hope it works, but it will be tough.

Well, all future Buicks will be designed to sell in both the US and China, so essentially they'll be shedding either Buick-NA or Buick-China (depending on how you look at it). We should reserve final judgement until we see the LaCrosse in the flesh, but i don't think that turning Buick around is that big a deal.

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Buick should benefit if Acadia and Outlook both go away.

IMO, GM really sabotaged a hit when they built competition for Enclave.

Yeah, having the Acadia and Enclave in the same showroom was a dumb move. My personal belief is that they should follow through with an open-bed Lambda and make that the next-gen Acadia.

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Yeah, having the Acadia and Enclave in the same showroom was a dumb move. My personal belief is that they should follow through with an open-bed Lambda and make that the next-gen Acadia.

Interesting idea.

A quasi replacement for both the Canyon and the H3T?

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Yes, and an Avalanche-style vehicle that I've always felt should've gone to GMC instead of Caddy.

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Well, I'm glad GM listened to us. I expect my dollar in the mail soon. :AH-HA_wink:

Sell SAAB and Hummer, get rid of the Saturn brand. Refocus and distill Pontiac. All excellent idears. I am thankful to hear Pontiac will stay... I can see Pontiac having a Delta II with maybe three bodystyles (two and four door hatch and hardtop convertible) and an Alpha with four (2 seat roadster, coupe, sedan and sport wagon). Buick should remain FWD soft luxury, with a Delta II sedan (and maybe even a Skyhawk-style coupe), Epsilon II LaCrosse, Epsilon II LWB sedan, and Enclave in some form.

Multiple bodystyles on fewer platforms is the way to go, I believe... and it is a return to the GM that was successful back in the days of primarily selling A- and B-bodies, each with multiple bodystyles to fit different buyers.

Now I just hope Congress does the right thing.

Edited by ocnblu
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First, I'm not in favor of baleouts by the government. It will just prolong the end.

To me, if a company like GM who claims to be in such serious trouble, this doesn't

seem like the right plan for the times.

Amazed they would keep GMC when they have Chevrolet trucks.

Pontiac simply is not needed.

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First, I'm not in favor of baleouts by the government. It will just prolong the end.

To me, if a company like GM who claims to be in such serious trouble, this doesn't

seem like the right plan for the times.

Amazed they would keep GMC when they have Chevrolet trucks.

Pontiac simply is not needed.

You're a great guy HE, but I disagree with you on all points.

Given the circumstances.

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The next question is will DC bite on this 18 Bill is asking alot.

18 Billion is nothing compared to what DC has passed out to AIG, Citi, and the rest. 18 Billion is 1.8 months of Iraq war.

Edit: And in the case of GM, the government ACTUALLY HAS A CHANCE TO GET THE MONEY BACK!

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Long live Pontiac.

NAU KAN I HAS 100% RWD LINEUP!?

(although I was expecting Pontiac to get the Opel Connection)

Read the whole thing, pretty impressive case made.

The devil will be in the details.

If those retarded, bribe-taking limousine-riding

fu+*puppets in DC actually READ it. <_<

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Harley,

How can you say that? :mind-blowing:

You always SEEMED like a true GM fan in the past. :(

18 Billion is nothing compared to what DC has passed out to AIG, Citi, and the rest. 18 Billion is 1.8 months of Iraq war.

Now that you put it like that, GM should get $50 Billion. (not kidding!)

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You're a great guy HE, but I disagree with you on all points.

Given the circumstances.

Trust me, in my perfect world, I would have all GM brands intact, including Oldsmobile. I'm a huge GM fan both past and present.

In such serious economic times, I'd rather have a drastically pared down GM, then it not exist.

It's just reality.

If GM gets this government assistance, it will eventually cease to exist.

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Trust me, in my perfect world, I would have all GM brands intact, including Oldsmobile. I'm a huge GM fan both past and present.

In such serious economic times, I'd rather have a drastically pared down GM, then it not exist.

It's just reality.

If GM gets this government assistance, it will eventually cease to exist.

Without this assistance, GM would be gone by New Years.

Read the whole plan, they are paring down dramatically.

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Harley, it's not a handout. It's a loan that GM will begin paying off in '11.

This is a great plan - GM appears to be taking the Ford approach and jettisoning all things that don't represent the core of GM. Of the three brands on the block, I'll miss Saab the most because I do have a soft spot for them, but better them than Pontiac or Buick. As far as Saturn and Hummer go, I hope the door doesn't hit them in the behind ont he way out.

How successful the plan will be depends on if they can unload all three and get a decent amount of coin for them. Hummer has been on the block for some time now and noone's bit yet. I'd say peddle it to Middle Eastern investors who pay pennies a gallon for gas. Saab and Satun should be easier sells given that they're more car-focused than Hummer.

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We are back to a waiting game again before we really know what this means.

First we will have to wait for Congress.

Then for specifics from GM.

Don't count any chickens yet.

My only worries about the whole Pontiac thing is the gray wording...

Does "reduced to a niche maker" mean a true performance division or does it mean "we're reducing Pontiac to a Mercury-like state in which it can be phased out if needed."

And by 'niche maker that compliments Buick and GMC' do they mean a tight line of truly desirable cars or a small line up of entry level rebadges? (Example: G3, G5, and Vibe)

Re: Saturn I really want Saturn to survive... Could GM maybe make it into a Scion-like division that focuses on small cars (like Saturn originally did) Offer 2 or 3 versions of the Corsa and/or Astra.

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Well this blows...My second vehicle will be an Astra 3-door however after that and my Vue are all used up, looks like I won't be buying anything else from GM. Since small cars will be reduced to simply chevrolet, I won't be sticking around. Aside from their trucks, chevrolet is low-tier. As for the rest of GM's divisions, they are simply out of my price-range.

I refuse to support GM after this crappy plan they came up with. Do people on this forum really expect Pontiac to make some miraculous comeback? Gone are the heritage days of Pontiac and Buick. I do hope Buick can somehow regain some footing, as their cars have always been great, however they are out of my pricerange anyways. Saturn's Opel-rebadges had promise. Heck, the vue I'm driving blows any of the other midsize CUV's out of the water, and I have the base XE. To not have the option of buying another Opel-based product new in North America, I have lost all confidence with GM. I am one of the consumers that wouldn't have considered a new GM vehicle save for Saturn. I love GM trucks, but aside from that, their cars have been lacking for so long, I would never trust my hard-earned money buying one new. Looks like I'll be going back to the thought of buying import again, after my Vue and future (used) Astra are finished. Good luck GM, because you just lost another consumer.

Edited by saturnd00d
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Sorry you feel that way Saturndood, but think it through. What you like at Saturn will still be available, most likely, under another name. Opel isn't going anywhere.

You'll find quite a bit of animosity directed at Saturn around here (from me, for example), but it has nothing to do with the current cars and everything to do with the damage done to GM for the benefit of the Saturn brand. Some terrible prices have been paid to give Saturn quite a few chances to "get there" and it never happened.

And hey, nothing is a done deal just yet.

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Well this blows...My second vehicle will be an Astra 3-door however after that and my Vue are all used up, looks like I won't be buying anything else from GM. Since small cars will be reduced to simply chevrolet, I won't be sticking around. Aside from their trucks, chevrolet is low-tier. As for the rest of GM's divisions, they are simply out of my price-range.

I refuse to support GM after this crappy plan they came up with. Do people on this forum really expect Pontiac to make some miraculous comeback? Gone are the heritage days of Pontiac and Buick. I do hope Buick can somehow regain some footing, as their cars have always been great, however they are out of my pricerange anyways. Saturn's Opel-rebadges had promise. Heck, the vue I'm driving blows any of the other midsize CUV's out of the water, and I have the base XE. To not have the option of buying another Opel-based product new in North America, I have lost all confidence with GM. I am one of the consumers that wouldn't have considered a new GM vehicle save for Saturn. I love GM trucks, but aside from that, their cars have been lacking for so long, I would never trust my hard-earned money buying one new. Looks like I'll be going back to the thought of buying import again, after my Vue and future (used) Astra are finished. Good luck GM, because you just lost another consumer.

Personally, I think the sale/killing of Saturn is the least likely part of this whole plan.

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I understand that Camino, but I see things differently. I know that most on this forum despise Saturn for even being created, but in their day, they offered more to the consumer than other brands, both GM and otherwise. Polymer was awesome, the s-series offered leather seating, great gas mileage, futuristic styling (at the time) and a few options like rear disc brakes, etc. that weren't even offered on other cars in their class.

GM starved Saturn of R&D money and pretty much let them run themselves into the ground. Of course the brand never got to evolve, it was never given a fighting chance. To me, it had everything to do with mis-management more so than anything else.

So within the last few years GM decides to pump more money in Saturn. They revitalize the entire lineup with Opel rebadges (save for the outlook), which all happen to be great, solid cars. Finally, the kind of cars that GM can be proud of. But, because GM starved Saturn's retailers for so long, their independent dealer network is small and sparse. Aside from that, you give all the advertising money to other, more developed brands, and the little bit that;s given to Saturn goes into web ads on yahoo, or 20 second TV spots advertising the whole Saturn lineup without actually saying antyhing about the cars in specific.

Sorry, to me, it has always looked like they tried to have Saturn run on fumes instead of a full tank of gas. If GM, however, was able to keep Saturn going throughout its prime, it would have developed into a volume division. It would have grown into a chevrolet brand, but with more exciting cars. It's too bad really, since I've liked them from the beginning and truly appreciated what they stood for. Sure, they lost their focus, but what brand in GM didn't?

Ah well, at least 90% of you on this forum are happy. You got to keep a dying and ailing Pontiac for the time being. Let's hope the rest of North America appreciates it as well, because for some reason, I don't think they will.

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Personally, I think the sale/killing of Saturn is the least likely part of this whole plan.

I tend to disagree. As much as I don't want to see them go, I don't think GM will keep them anymore. I also don't think GM will be using Opel in partnership with any of the NA brands after Saturn ceases to exist. They failed to give Saturn any good marketing, and that coupled with a small-spread of dealerships is what I believe killed Saturn. I see it that way, but I doubt GM realizes their own fault in that scenario. To them, it just looks like they brought over Opels under the Saturn Moniker, and it didn't work. I believe, as well, that they won't try importing Opels under any other brand either.

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If Saturn had never existed as a separate entity, and the good ideas behind it had been implemented at the lower end of the core brands, we might not even be in this mess right now.

That's where the rub is.

I think GM would continue Saturn if it were financially possible, but they are hamstrung by the small dealer network of stand-alone stores, and it would take another huge infusion of cash to even make a decent run at the problem. Saturn has cost GM dearly since the beginning, and keeping the brand now doesn't look feasible no matter what other brands would be cancelled to do so.

Also, the plan indicates that Opels would make their way to Buick - so the actual cars may not be lost at all.

Too early to tell.

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Even if Opel comes here to Buick's lineup, that's great for Buick. I'm glad that it would get great product such as that, and I'm sure it will give Buick the boost it needs to thrive. Kind of irrelevant for me though, since Buicks are out of my pricerange, so it wouldn't have as much of an impact on me as it would others.

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I like this plan, dump the dead weight.

Buick only sells 7,000 vehicles a month, so I don't see how that is really a "core brand" and GMC is all rebadges so they could kill GMC too. Buick is the natural fit for a line between Chevy and Cadillac, but it may be too late to restore brand image, that really needed to be done years ago. Buick needs to get like Lincoln fast and modernize with technology in their cars.

GM's reputation is shot right now, unless they hit home runs on every product launch they are in trouble. They should extend warranties too, at least 6/72,000 bumper to bumper on the lower brands and 10/100,000 bumper to bumper on Cadillac.

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GM's reputation is shot right now, unless they hit home runs on every product launch they are in trouble. They should extend warranties too, at least 6/72,000 bumper to bumper on the lower brands and 10/100,000 bumper to bumper on Cadillac.

With as many cars as GM sells, I'm not sure that might be a good idea....

KIA may do it, not they don't sell nearly as many cars...and it cost them dearly at first....

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I like this plan, dump the dead weight.

Buick only sells 7,000 vehicles a month, so I don't see how that is really a "core brand" and GMC is all rebadges so they could kill GMC too. Buick is the natural fit for a line between Chevy and Cadillac, but it may be too late to restore brand image, that really needed to be done years ago. Buick needs to get like Lincoln fast and modernize with technology in their cars.

GM's reputation is shot right now, unless they hit home runs on every product launch they are in trouble. They should extend warranties too, at least 6/72,000 bumper to bumper on the lower brands and 10/100,000 bumper to bumper on Cadillac.

Buick is successful in China, that makes it international and more of a core brand because it is sold in more markets than N/A.

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Buick is core in a literal fashion, GM was built around it in the first place. For sales in NA, it certainly is not, and then there is China...

I imagine that GM would be unwilling to kill Buick under any circumstance, and I guess I have to respect that - or be branded as a hypocrite.

There just really isn't much in the way of a viable business case for it here anymore.

That will have to change in short order.

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Cadillac's should be built to last, so a 10 year warranty shouldn't be that big a deal. Engineer it better than Mercedes, build with higher quality than Lexus. And no more rebates on Cadillacs, ever. Low interest rate financing is the only incentive they should offer, along with the a bumper to bumper warranty double the competition. If Cadillac gets the reputation of the best built, longest lasting car, resale value will go up and people won't be afraid to buy one without $5,000 cash back + invoice price.

The Buicks sold in China share nothing in common with the Buicks sold here. They are like 2 separate divisions both using the same badge. If they can make the same basic car to sell around the globe, with modifications made to fit specific regions, then they have a viable business plan for Buick.

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The Buicks sold in China share nothing in common with the Buicks sold here. They are like 2 separate divisions both using the same badge. If they can make the same basic car to sell around the globe, with modifications made to fit specific regions, then they have a viable business plan for Buick.

You must have missed the memo where several months ago they said that is exactly what would be happening: Buick China and Buick N/A would be working together for future Buick products.

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GM needed to face disaster to force a change. I knew 2 years ago they needed to shed brands fast, and that the Lambdas were too big, G8 would tank (285 days worth of inventory), and that the Malibu, CTS, Lambdas, etc though improved still had to be better. The Enclave was down over 40% this month, sold only 2,000, CTS was down 48%, sold under 3,000 units. GM once bragged about these being hot models, a year on the market and they are duds.

This is the wake up call GM needed, and they'll be better off in the long term because of it. GM is going to go through hell for another year, but they'll be back lean and strong, and can focus on quality, not quantity. If they only have 25-30 models to worry about, they can build the best cars in the world. If they do this right, (basically blow it up and start over) GM will be great again.

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Well this blows...My second vehicle will be an Astra 3-door however after that and my Vue are all used up, looks like I won't be buying anything else from GM. Since small cars will be reduced to simply chevrolet, I won't be sticking around. Aside from their trucks, chevrolet is low-tier. As for the rest of GM's divisions, they are simply out of my price-range.

I refuse to support GM after this crappy plan they came up with. Do people on this forum really expect Pontiac to make some miraculous comeback? Gone are the heritage days of Pontiac and Buick. I do hope Buick can somehow regain some footing, as their cars have always been great, however they are out of my pricerange anyways. Saturn's Opel-rebadges had promise. Heck, the vue I'm driving blows any of the other midsize CUV's out of the water, and I have the base XE. To not have the option of buying another Opel-based product new in North America, I have lost all confidence with GM. I am one of the consumers that wouldn't have considered a new GM vehicle save for Saturn. I love GM trucks, but aside from that, their cars have been lacking for so long, I would never trust my hard-earned money buying one new. Looks like I'll be going back to the thought of buying import again, after my Vue and future (used) Astra are finished. Good luck GM, because you just lost another consumer.

Don't give up just yet...

GM said it would evaluate Saturn (and Saab and Hummer for that matter) Nothing is set in stone.

I personally hope GM keeps Saturn. Sell Hummer and Saab.

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Saturn's been losing $$ for decades, and the 'snobs' who cant buy a good Chevy just 'cuz of the name can go pay $$$ to Korean makes. [in fact old J cars are outlasting old SL's] And yes importing Opels with Euro costs was a flop, but not sharing platforms world wide.

Buick is a core brand, since GM is a global company, China adds many #'s to the 7000 sold in US. Look at the big picture, not just your local auto mall.

GMC makes $$$, and that is what matters most.

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Yeah, having the Acadia and Enclave in the same showroom was a dumb move. My personal belief is that they should follow through with an open-bed Lambda and make that the next-gen Acadia.

Damn. That's a damn good idea. It's a way to use the Lambda, spreading costs; yet won't compete with the Enclave (or Traverse, for that matter). Also, it provides a smaller, crossover based alternative to the Avalanche and gives GM a direct competitor to the Honda Ridgeline. It also gives GM a "right size" truck to compete with Ford's upcoming F-100 (though the F-100 won't be crossover based). That's a very good idea...

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As for scaling back the dealerships The one dealer here TEAM Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac just bought the Pontiac, GMC dealer (Jabbco Maggi) Now its called TEAM Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, GMC.

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seems to me GM has to have these brands somewhere globally (i.e. essential)

Chevy

Daewoo (not in US)

Buick

Opel (who gets the Opels in the US)

next is a brand that i think somewhat is grey (the aussies can jump in here)

Holden

what's next is the deal. i have for a while now said pontiac could exist with a g6 line (torana?), g8 line (commodore), and the solstice. is this niche? to me, it says 'g8 remains' which also to me says holden big rwd cars will get a stay of execution for a few years. At a minimum, this buys time for GM to simply rebuild this brand over time without so much pressure. Maybe it will get cultlike status like Harley or BMW now? WHo knows.

So i think Pontiac will stay in the US. What is less clear is Saturn. I find saturn's line to be the most appealing for affordable GM stuff as a whole right now. It's all good and now they want to tank the brand? Saturn has the best customer experience of nearly all brands and GM will throw it away? Sounds like GM. Anywho. So now we know the Opel Insignia is not a Saturn anymore most likely and rumor is its a Buick. I do not feel Buick can get Saturn buyers. The lines are fuzzy between what Pontiac had hoped would be their buyers and who Saturn's buyers are. Personally a know more than a handful of folks who have shopped Saturns lately but not many Pontiac buyers. Basically the critical part of the puzzle is who gets the Opels? If Saturn goes, which division gets the Astra, Antara, and Insignia and apparently no Corsa.

Saab and Hummer are more or less inconsequential right now, although Hummer has tremendous potential and Saab i always have liked but lets face it, there just may not be room anymore.

Without reading 37 pages of fluff, I am struggling to find how this fixes the product assortment (i.e. more desirable small and mid size cars, more choices to compete with Lexus, Infiniti and the Germans, and overall new products to market).

GMC is all rebadges and hinges upon whether other brands are merged into Chevy's dealer network IMHO.

With this plan, not fully knowing what to do with Saab and Hummer, they can still keep doing what they are doing which is to basically tack them on to Caddy showrooms.

I almost wish they would sell damn Opels here, maybe in the Caddy showrooms. Then it would really clean things up. Chevy, Opel, Buick, Cadillac.

Its starting to feel like Saturn is the odd man out but seriously that isn't getting rid of the overlap like it simply would to fold BPG into and on top of Chevy. Then ditch Saab and have Opel / Cadillac or Saturn / Cadillac.

Edited by regfootball
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Expect GM to sell only a part of Saab, retaining slightly more than 50%, as they do GM Daewoo. Initially the rest may go to the Swedish government in return for assistance. Note that Saab will be building the 3-door Astra in addition to the Delta-based 9-1 and 9-3. Whether they stay in the US market, or keep producing a midsize 9-5 model is another matter. Of course, the "new" direction for Saab may simply be in focus, perhaps the "green" luxury brand BMW has been considering. With a focus on downsizing the next generation, aerodynamics, BioPower engines, and the BioHybrid concepts, they're halfway there already. They just need to change the marketing focus and build a 9-e using the E-Flex system.

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, since it actually is in GM's plan, unlike so much other stuff that has been reported:

The Beat.

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