Random Thoughts Thread

[Robert Hall]

Reality is complex. On the subject of DIY and hauling stuff from Home Depot, last week one evening I hauled home from Home Depot a 1 gallon potted shrubbery, 2 5 pound bags of potting mix, 1 40 lb bag of top soil, 1 40 lb bag of mulch, 4 blocks, and 16 small fall flowers to plant in a flower bed.  The crazy part?  Not in my Jeep, but in my sister’s Chevy Trax.  Should have taken a photo.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

As long as the bed can accommodate 1 cubic yard of top soil or whatnot, it would be sufficient for me.  That's about my line to draw if the bed is large enough or not. 

[ccap41]

For @smk4565

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=6

 

2022 Lincoln Aviator: What We Think

In many ways, the bigger the SUV, the better the Lincoln. We currently rank the Aviator as the best vehicle in the three-row luxury segment. The exterior and interior design are both outstanding, with bold, distinctive lines and loads of wood, metal, and leather; it's nearly impossible to discern that the Aviator shares a platform with the underwhelming Ford Explorer. Lincoln's standard twin-turbo V-6 is powerful and plenty quick, too, and those after more power can opt for the Grand Touring plug-in hybrid (though we'd recommend the non-hybrid in this case).

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=7

2022 Lincoln Navigator: What’s New

Lincoln is making a big debut with the 2022 Navigator. The largest and in-chargest Lincoln is the first model to feature Lincoln ActiveGlide, a semi-autonomous system analogous to Ford BlueCruise. Lincoln is also adding second-row massage seats (a segment first), plus new Central Park and Invitation themes for the Navigator Black Label. Front and rear styling have been updated, and the center touchscreen has been enlarged to 13.2 inches.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=8

2022 Lincoln Navigator: What We Think

There's a reason the Lincoln Navigator sits atop our rankings of full-size luxury SUVs. Yes, the twin-turbo V-6 and 10-speed auto provide effortless acceleration, and, of course, we appreciate that there's plenty of space even in the third row. But it's really all about this interior—an opulently finished art-deco reminder that in some spaces, America still does best. For the 2022 Navigator, we hope the updated suspension improves the ride quality, one of our few complaints about the pre-2022 SUV.

[balthazar]

In addition to work, I use my truck a lot other ways. 
• I make occasional runs to the scrap yard; when I do aluminum I could make do with a much smaller bed, but not with steel runs.
• I just finished moving my MIL out of her apartment, her couch was 2" too long for the 6.5' bed (tailgate down, load retainer up, ratchet strap), but that bed still made the move a bunch less trips.
• Last month I was scavenging thru the 'Junkland' house, and a LOT of volume came out where that bed volume was key.
• 2 months ago I took a lengthy ride to pick up a '71 GTO hood- it would not have fit in a 5.5' bed.
• years ago my '04 (also a 6.5' bed) moved about 375 SF of pavers- I think I did it in 2 trips (brought to my house; not for a job).
• When I picked up a '63 Nova convertible shell on a trailer, the bed was filled with fenders, bumpers, all sorts of sheet metal. 
• Firewood galore (I need to stock up). I don't pay for wood, I find it, so almost always it's branches/trunks, not cut-too-length.

[Robert Hall]

^sounds like you have many real world use cases where a full size truck with a 6.5 ft bed is worthwhile.  An appropriate tool for certain tasks. 

[David]

21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In addition to work, I use my truck a lot other ways. 
• I make occasional runs to the scrap yard; when I do aluminum I could make do with a much smaller bed, but not with steel runs.
• I just finished moving my MIL out of her apartment, her couch was 2" too long for the 6.5' bed (tailgate down, load retainer up, ratchet strap), but that bed still made the move a bunch less trips.
• Last month I was scavenging thru the 'Junkland' house, and a LOT of volume came out where that bed volume was key.
• 2 months ago I took a lengthy ride to pick up a '71 GTO hood- it would not have fit in a 5.5' bed.
• years ago my '04 (also a 6.5' bed) moved about 375 SF of pavers- I think I did it in 2 trips (brought to my house; not for a job).
• When I picked up a '63 Nova convertible shell on a trailer, the bed was filled with fenders, bumpers, all sorts of sheet metal. 
• Firewood galore (I need to stock up). I don't pay for wood, I find it, so almost always it's branches/trunks, not cut-too-length.

Lots of great real world use cases that allows you to justify a 6 1/2 or 8 ft bed. Most people rarely use it other than to haul occasional yard stuff or interior stuff from various stores and be it 4 1/2 ft, 5 or 5 1/2 ft bed, these are plenty for most people who want a family hauler plus the ability to putts around in their yard.

As I said, pictures I have posted here show that Rivian is exploring King cabs to go with crew cabs and un-verified long beds by rivian, but the pictures show differences. Clearly I think Rivian is exploring to expand their truck offerings once they get the truck and SUV into mass production and shipping. I would expect in 3 to 5 years they will have many options from the single option they offer today.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

For @smk4565

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=6

 

2022 Lincoln Aviator: What We Think

In many ways, the bigger the SUV, the better the Lincoln. We currently rank the Aviator as the best vehicle in the three-row luxury segment. The exterior and interior design are both outstanding, with bold, distinctive lines and loads of wood, metal, and leather; it's nearly impossible to discern that the Aviator shares a platform with the underwhelming Ford Explorer. Lincoln's standard twin-turbo V-6 is powerful and plenty quick, too, and those after more power can opt for the Grand Touring plug-in hybrid (though we'd recommend the non-hybrid in this case).

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=7

2022 Lincoln Navigator: What’s New

Lincoln is making a big debut with the 2022 Navigator. The largest and in-chargest Lincoln is the first model to feature Lincoln ActiveGlide, a semi-autonomous system analogous to Ford BlueCruise. Lincoln is also adding second-row massage seats (a segment first), plus new Central Park and Invitation themes for the Navigator Black Label. Front and rear styling have been updated, and the center touchscreen has been enlarged to 13.2 inches.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=8

2022 Lincoln Navigator: What We Think

There's a reason the Lincoln Navigator sits atop our rankings of full-size luxury SUVs. Yes, the twin-turbo V-6 and 10-speed auto provide effortless acceleration, and, of course, we appreciate that there's plenty of space even in the third row. But it's really all about this interior—an opulently finished art-deco reminder that in some spaces, America still does best. For the 2022 Navigator, we hope the updated suspension improves the ride quality, one of our few complaints about the pre-2022 SUV.

And that probably won't move the sales needle, if anything I think Navigator sales will drop with the Grand Wagoneer out there now.  The Maybach GLS already has massage rear seats and level 2 semi-autonomous driving, so Lincoln has nothing new there, just what is expected in that segment.

[balthazar]

27 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And that probably won't move the sales needle

Yes; adding features/ amenities & improving what's already present hardly ever increases sales.

[riviera74]

What I find SAD is that GM essentially pushed a lot of their traditional customers (those who bought RWD B-bodies and RWD G-bodies) out in favor of those who wanted FWD (J-bodies, N-bodies, FWD A-bodies, the U-body minivans) and it still did not save GM from losing a lot of market share from Toyota and Honda.  If GM had made a modern RWD sedan for Buick and Olds and Pontiac in 1990 (and hopefully sooner than what we received in the new GTO/G8/Chevy SS), maybe GM could have saved itself from now about 20% market share (and perhaps bankruptcy). 

Now it is all CUVs and more CUVs.  I suspect that I may replace the Lucerne with that new Envision they have out now, given that no one buys sedans anymore.

The fact that many car magazines were a little too enthusiastic for European sports sedans and Japanese ones too (for years!) is a sad development.  Then again, does anyone read those anymore without looking at other sources?

[David]

7 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

What I find SAD is that GM essentially pushed a lot of their traditional customers (those who bought RWD B-bodies and RWD G-bodies) out in favor of those who wanted FWD (J-bodies, N-bodies, FWD A-bodies, the U-body minivans) and it still did not save GM from losing a lot of market share from Toyota and Honda.  If GM had made a modern RWD sedan for Buick and Olds and Pontiac in 1990 (and hopefully sooner than what we received in the new GTO/G8/Chevy SS), maybe GM could have saved itself from now about 20% market share (and perhaps bankruptcy). 

Now it is all CUVs and more CUVs.  I suspect that I may replace the Lucerne with that new Envision they have out now, given that no one buys sedans anymore.

The fact that many car magazines were a little too enthusiastic for European sports sedans and Japanese ones too (for years!) is a sad development.  Then again, does anyone read those anymore without looking at other sources?

My sister has a Buick Envision and loves it. At 6'6" tall I can sit in the front, get out and sit in the back with leg room to spare. With a Sister that is over 6' tall, this is a normal test for our family and everyone has been really comfy in it. She loves the Heated and Cooled Seats as well as the heated steering wheel. From Winter to summer, as a in home nurse dealing with open wound care, she has been very comfy in her Envision and is looking to get another one as her 2 year old Envision is approaching 60,000 miles due to on the road job.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

I find SAD is that GM essentially pushed a lot of their traditional customers (those who bought RWD B-bodies and RWD G-bodies) out in favor of those who wanted FWD (J-bodies, N-bodies, FWD A-bodies, the U-body minivans) and it still did not save GM from losing a lot of market share from Toyota and Honda. 

But all those toyoter / hoonda buyers were buying all FWD.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

What I find SAD is that GM essentially pushed a lot of their traditional customers (those who bought RWD B-bodies and RWD G-bodies) out in favor of those who wanted FWD (J-bodies, N-bodies, FWD A-bodies, the U-body minivans) and it still did not save GM from losing a lot of market share from Toyota and Honda.  If GM had made a modern RWD sedan for Buick and Olds and Pontiac in 1990 (and hopefully sooner than what we received in the new GTO/G8/Chevy SS), maybe GM could have saved itself from now about 20% market share (and perhaps bankruptcy). 

Now it is all CUVs and more CUVs.  I suspect that I may replace the Lucerne with that new Envision they have out now, given that no one buys sedans anymore.

The fact that many car magazines were a little too enthusiastic for European sports sedans and Japanese ones too (for years!) is a sad development.  Then again, does anyone read those anymore without looking at other sources?

 

What I find sad is that the socio-political climate that was the 1970s (which actually started RIGHT AFTER the end of WW2) culminated to a perfect storm that forced GM and the others Detroit gang to  hastily change their product portfolio over night to downsize and FW drive their vehicles. 

Was it a right choice? 

Yeah... I think it was.

Lets not pretend to NOT understand and acknowledge that the downsizing from GM WAS a success in both the market place AND in terms of the time it took for a behemoth company like GM to do a COMPLETE 180 degrees and perform THAT kinda change in as little as a decade ACROSS their WHOLE product portfolio.  In some cases, in one generation of a product cycle, in other cases in just 2. 

Yeah...some product portfolio was utter shyte. But that was mostly products FROM the 1970s. The 1980s stuff was pretty reliable.  And in "context",  in the amount of time it took them to engineer WHOLE product lines from the ground up, their ENTIRE car product line, Id say its a miracle that GM did NOT go bankrupt right then and there with overblown engineering costs and budgets with major...MAJOR engineering fails.  A creaky cup holder here and a small cost cutting parts bin and badge engineering over there is truly NOT that big of a deal. Again, in context, the Japanese and German cars we got over here were really not that much better built and had the SAME cost cutting measures engineered in THEIR offerings. Sure, some Japanese cars were more reliable than their American car counterparts, but MOST Japanese cars were NOT that reliable either.

 

What I find sadder though,  is that America was blind to see how the world had become when time reached the 1970s, because of how good the good times were SINCE the end of WW2 in America, and failed to adjust to what the new reality of the 1970s would bring.    The ever increasing in size and weight of our vehicles, the excessive use of chrome on our cars, which I have NO problems with, the huge displacement and horsepower that the engines made, it was only a matter of time that it would all coming crashing down as soon as political power vacuums and new regimes sought revenge for perceived and rightful injustices that America was responsible for, and it would all culminate PERFECTLY in the 1970s to create a storm that America was just not ready for.  Our culture and lifestyle that influenced our cars and our car industry itself was NOT ready for it.  

(Viet Nam never ending, oil embargoes, terrorist bombings in various parts of the world, airplane hijackings, 1972 Olympics, puppet wars, cold war.. etc) 

So I dont think its fair to say that GM forced and pushed aside their full-sized RWD owners to the side. It was kinda the right move. Obviously, they thought the direction they took was the right one. In hindsight, maybe GM should have NOT put BOTH their legs in the downsized FWD water as they did, but as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20... 

America still plays around with global oil prices and ensures that America gets the best prices...its a miracle that we enjoy (well you guys, not us Quebecois) low gasoline prices to this day and THAT is why American folk NOW buy the bigger than the downsized sedans in the form of the taller and slightly larger CUVs and full-sized pick up trucks and their SUV counterparts. 

But 20 years ago this past Saturday is a reminder of the political power vacuums and new regimes I was talking about  that America had to face in the 1970s that continued...well, in 2001.

 

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Maybach GLS already has massage rear seats

The damn near $200K gussied up GLS better have rear seat massagers and autonomous capabilities. Meanwhile, the less than $100K Navigator will have them both. If you don’t see the problem with your statement here, then I don’t know what else to tell you. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by surreal1272

[A Horse With No Name]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

In addition to work, I use my truck a lot other ways. 
• I make occasional runs to the scrap yard; when I do aluminum I could make do with a much smaller bed, but not with steel runs.
• I just finished moving my MIL out of her apartment, her couch was 2" too long for the 6.5' bed (tailgate down, load retainer up, ratchet strap), but that bed still made the move a bunch less trips.
• Last month I was scavenging thru the 'Junkland' house, and a LOT of volume came out where that bed volume was key.
• 2 months ago I took a lengthy ride to pick up a '71 GTO hood- it would not have fit in a 5.5' bed.
• years ago my '04 (also a 6.5' bed) moved about 375 SF of pavers- I think I did it in 2 trips (brought to my house; not for a job).
• When I picked up a '63 Nova convertible shell on a trailer, the bed was filled with fenders, bumpers, all sorts of sheet metal. 
• Firewood galore (I need to stock up). I don't pay for wood, I find it, so almost always it's branches/trunks, not cut-too-length.

I use mine as a truck every week, I find it hugely practical. Glad I got the shorter cab, longer bed configuration. 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And that probably won't move the sales needle, if anything I think Navigator sales will drop with the Grand Wagoneer out there now.  The Maybach GLS already has massage rear seats and level 2 semi-autonomous driving, so Lincoln has nothing new there, just what is expected in that segment.

You have to spend 200k to get massaging rear seats and semi-autonomous driving? Just buy the better Lincoln at half the price. 

[balthazar]

^ GLS is just a copy of the Navigator anyway; a German brand trying to be what they aren’t. 😉

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

You have to spend 200k to get massaging rear seats and semi-autonomous driving? Just buy the better Lincoln at half the price. 

Exactly my point above but clearly he doesn't see the irony in his statement. 

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

You have to spend 200k to get massaging rear seats and semi-autonomous driving? Just buy the better Lincoln at half the price. 

The GLS550 has rear heated, ventilated, and massage seats too, with pillow headrests.  Can get heated rear arm rests and 3rd row heated seats too.  

So nothing new in the Navigator, unless they are just comparing their segment as Escalade and Grand Wagoneer.  

[David]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The GLS550 has rear heated, ventilated, and massage seats too, with pillow headrests.  Can get heated rear arm rests and 3rd row heated seats too.  

So nothing new in the Navigator, unless they are just comparing their segment as Escalade and Grand Wagoneer.  

But you can get all that at Half the Price in an American Brand with a far lower cost of maintenance compared to the German machine. America for the Win!

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, David said:

But you can get all that at Half the Price in an American Brand with a far lower cost of maintenance compared to the German machine. America for the Win!

He doesn’t even have the model right. It’s the GLS580 (there is no longer a 550 model) which starts at just under $100K it does offer rear seat massagers as a $4500 option. Not sure where the MT article got the “segment first” for the Navigator from. 

[smk4565]

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

He doesn’t even have the model right. It’s the GLS580 (there is no longer a 550 model) which starts at just under $100K it does offer rear seat massagers as a $4500 option. Not sure where the MT article got the “segment first” for the Navigator from. 

Correct, it is as GLS580 now, I saw a GLS550 on a car lot earlier today and that must have been what I was thinking of.  They should have just left all those 550's as 550's to keep things simple. 

[surreal1272]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Correct, it is as GLS580 now, I saw a GLS550 on a car lot earlier today and that must have been what I was thinking of.  They should have just left all those 550's as 550's to keep things simple. 

Simple would have been keeping the GL moniker instead of just adding one letter for the seemingly hell of it. 

[oldshurst442]

"Im not a doctor. but Im pretty sure if you die, the cancer also dies at the same exact time. So that to me is not a loss; its a draw." - Norm Macdonald 

RIP

 

 

[surreal1272]

20 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

"Im not a doctor. but Im pretty sure if you die, the cancer also dies at the same exact time. So that to me is not a loss; its a draw." - Norm Macdonald 

RIP

 

 

A damn shame. 

[oldshurst442]

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

A damn shame. 

I always laughed at his jokes.  His childish ways of talking in the mid-1990s especially on SNL really had me hooked on him.  Then, sometime after he got fired from SNL, I noticed that I didnt understand his words anymore.  Oh....I laughed at his jokes, but I laughed NOT at his jokes, I laughed at his spoken way. 

Then youtube comes along, and I got to get re-acquainted with him.  So I binged watch youtube videos of him. All materials. Podcasts. David Letterman appearances. Conan O'Brien appearance. Howard Stern. Old stand-up bits. New stand-up bits. Bob Saget roast.  ESPYs.  Bill Clinton dinner roast.  Denis Miller podcasts  Etc...  

It took me a VERY long time to TRULY "get" his jokes.   I understood this man was a genius. 

I heard what Letterman and O'Brien and others said of him and in the beginning of my binge watching him, I didnt want to believe them that he is one of the best ever comedians.  But I listened to his jokes over and over and over again and then I finally "got" him.   

The man was not only funny. He was literally a genius. He was smart. 

His comedy had you coming and going and YOU, whether as a listener or the butt of his jokes or his trolling or his "apology", YOU didnt know whether YOU were coming or going. He had you all tied in knots.  To boot. He was FUNNY doing it.  His choice of words. His comedic pausing. His stares. His glances.  His nuances and overtones about how he chooses to tell a story. The voyage of the story. The punchline NOT being about the story itself but about the voyage.  

Unlike Robin Williams. Another comedic genius. Robin was mostly superficial and quick.  Norm was the opposite. Norm was deep and slow. But the joke was too fast for people and it usually would go over people's heads. People usually, like me in the beginning, would try to focus on the superficial and quick like a Robin Williams joke.  The REAL joke would be the undertones.  Once you understood that about Norm, you were on another level of comedy.  

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Unlike Robin Williams. Another comedic genius.

That one stung more than any other celebrity death for me, for multiple reasons. Even though he died by suicide, it was because of Lewys Body Dementia, which is what killed my dad four years ago. Nevermind the fact that William was and is still my all time favorite comedian. 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

That one stung more than any other celebrity death for me, for multiple reasons. Even though he died by suicide, it was because of Lewys Body Dementia, which is what killed my dad four years ago. Nevermind the fact that William was and is still my all time favorite comedian. 

My condolences once more.

Robin Williams' death made me cry.  Because he too, was my favorite comedian. Part of my youth and all that.  Yeah, like Chevy Chase and John Candy and countless of other actors and singers and the like.  But that was not the  reason why I cried.  The main reason is because I knew that he was truly a great and genuine person.  I knew, we all knew, his  jokes came from his heart and all he ever wanted to do was make us laugh.  And Ill repeat. He truly was a great human being. Countless of stories about him and his generosity were around a loooong time before his death.    

[surreal1272]

10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

My condolences once more.

Robin Williams' death made me cry.  Because he too, was my favorite comedian. Part of my youth and all that.  Yeah, like Chevy Chase and John Candy and countless of other actors and singers and the like.  But that was not the  reason why I cried.  The main reason is because I knew that he was truly a great and genuine person.  I knew, we all knew, his  jokes came from his heart and all he ever wanted to do was make us laugh.  And Ill repeat. He truly was a great human being. Countless of stories about him and his generosity were around a loooong time before his death.    

Agree on every front and thanks. 

[daves87rs]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:30 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Ive never leased...so, Im asking.

GM could refuse to sell you your leased car?    Force you to lease/buy a new one?

 

 

By contract, no. They do give you an buyout price. That said, sales folk will talk you out of it, and dealerships will tell you otherwise. At least the ones that really need cars.

Good places should sell them to you though……

[David]

Seems the 2022 order book has revealed that the Ford Bronco will have a Raptor version.

Ford Bronco Raptor Details Leaked - The Truth About Cars

[David]

Interesting read, seems while Rural Cadillac Dealerships are taking buy outs, inner city to suburban places that are growing in average income due to jobs are adding dealerships.

Report: Cadillac's EV Ambitions Creating Dealer Shakeup (thetruthaboutcars.com)

Seems that while Toyota and Honda are not fans of the EV credit the Feds are proposing and of course Toyota is all by itself in Sueing California to stop CARB BEV requirements, they are investing $13.6 billion over the next decade to deliver solid state batteries that will beat Tesla and everyone else. They have prototype solid state battery run cars running around in Japan.

 

Will say these are the Ugliest auto's I have ever seen.

Toyota Changes Tune on EVs, Will Spend $13.6 Billion on Batteries by 2030 (thedrive.com)

[David]

Love stuff like this, doubt I ever see a German or Asian auto doing this at a drag strip.

Schroeder’s New Car, 6-Second Javelin, and Wheelies: Day 1 of HOT ROD Drag Week (motortrend.com)

@balthazar I can see you having a van like this and going to work building someone's deck in a speedy way!

[balthazar]

Another example of the best & most valuable form of 'old car recycling' : 
 

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The GLS550 has rear heated, ventilated, and massage seats too, with pillow headrests.  Can get heated rear arm rests and 3rd row heated seats too.  

So nothing new in the Navigator, unless they are just comparing their segment as Escalade and Grand Wagoneer.  

After trying to build a GLS on their website, you are correct. They do offer massaging 2nd row seats, at the cheapest possible option of 104k. That doesn't even give the driver a heated steering wheel, you have to add that separately. 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, David said:

But you can get all that at Half the Price in an American Brand with a far lower cost of maintenance compared to the German machine. America for the Win!

The Navigator is nowhere near half the price of a GLS580 with that rear seat option elected. 

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

The Navigator is nowhere near half the price of a GLS580 with that rear seat option elected. 

I was being sarcastic, but agree it is not half the price, but greatly cheaper than what MB sells for.

[David]

I think everyone could enjoy reading the latest Chevrolet Performance Story at the following web address:

The 57210: A 1957 Chevy with a Supercharged Big-Block Upgrade (theblock.com)

Have to give them props for when money is no issue at the attention to detail in modernizing this lovely car.

I am excited to see how the GM Performance team takes these stories once the e-Crate solutions are available in many different spec's.

[balthazar]

Maybe a tiny fraction of the money-is-no-object tri-5 builders might consider an electric build. If you have a huge budget, all sorts of possibilities are out there 😁 : 

 

[David]

GM Defense has won a $36.4 million dollar Defense contract to build Heavy-Duty Suburbans for the U.S. Government Agencies.

GM Defense Awarded $36.4 Million Development Contract to Build Heavy-Duty Surburbans for U.S. Government Agencies

These SUVs will while using many commercial-off-the-shelf parts from the body, exterior, propulsion, interior and brakes will get a purpose-built HD Suburban new and unique body-on-frame  chassis and suspension, designed to specifically support increased government performance requirements with higher payload capacity and heavier vehicle gross weight.

GM currently will build 10 HD Suburbans per year under this R&D development contract that expires in May 2023, this contract is expected to be replaced by one building 200 HD Suburbans per year for 9 years following the completion of this R&D contract with the first delivery of the modern R&D HD Suburban expected Spring 2022.

The 20 total R&D HD Suburbans give an average cost of $1,820,000 per vehicle including the R&D cost for the specific requirements of the new chassis and suspension.

This contract makes me wonder if we will see the return of an HD suburban to Chevrolet and GMC lots in the near future. I wonder what the towing and weight capacity will be for these new HD Suburbans which were last built in 2017 for fleet and governments and was discontinued then.

Chevy Suburban HD Heavy-Duty SUV Discontinued Vehicle | GM Fleet

Clearly one can tell the differences of the last 2500 HD suburban that was built for Police, fleets and especially the government as seen in the picture above. 2017 was the last year this was available. Guess the Government needs a bunch more to replace these now.

For those that might be wondering what powered these HD Suburbans, it was the 6L V8 that you could only get in certain Chevrolet Suburban 1500 trims. On top of this, the FBI and Secret Service are the largest users of these vehicles and they usually have additional lighting and armor plating including bullet proof glass as to the need for a beefier chassis and suspension.

Makes one wonder which V8 will end up in these new HD Suburbans?

The Chevy Suburban HD Is the Most Subtle Intimidating Car in the World - Autotrader

 

[balthazar]

SO much for 'converting the entire federal vehicle fleet to BE'... guess it made for a good sound bite.

[regfootball]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42377/the-2022-subaru-wrxs-base-infotainment-system-is-pretty-bad

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by regfootball

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

SO much for 'converting the entire federal vehicle fleet to BE'... guess it made for a good sound bite.

Or it's because the fleet was in immediate need of updating and since there are not going be any EV equivalents for at least a few more years (at best), it made more sense to go with what was already available. Just common sense to me and has not one thing to do with "sound bites". The next round will be all EVs, once the next batch of SUVs are worn out.

[ccap41]

Yeah, the federal government's fleet was in "immediate need of updating".  I believe that as much as any politician. 

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, the federal government's fleet was in "immediate need of updating".  I believe that as much as any politician. 

Considering that the HD Suburban had gone out of production in 2017, 5 years ago due to a lack of sales, I can believe that the HD Suburbans they bought in 2017, armor plated, bullet proof glass, etc. are probably nearing their end of life not to mention the ones bought in earlier years that were still in use.

I can see the Government needing a new fleet now of burbs for FBI and Secret Service use on top of use by other high ranking officials in the Government.

[balthazar]

^ They're a minimum of 4 years old, it's ridiculous that they'd be "worn out".

It's the same-old, typical, Big Gov't, blow-thru-money SOP.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, the federal government's fleet was in "immediate need of updating".  I believe that as much as any politician. 

You need to because I still see Crown Vics rolling around here lol. Furthermore, they are only producing 1800 of these over the course of nine years. Most of the current ones are at least a decade old with probably a ton of miles on them. 

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ They're a minimum of 4 years old, it's ridiculous that they'd be "worn out".

It's the same-old, typical, Big Gov't, blow-thru-money SOP.

See my above response. Also, again, this over the course of nine years so obviously the first 200, in the first year, are going replace the oldest models and not the four year old models. By the time year nine rolls around, those four year models are now thirteen years old with a ton of miles and wear and tear. This is a common sense move, believe it or not. Is it wasteful? On some level, sure, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t need to be replaced. These are specific use vehicles and a lot of work go into them. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/sep/0915-gmdefense.html

 

Id buy one of these...

4 hours ago, David said:

Makes one wonder which V8 will end up in these new HD Suburbans?

 

Yeah...I would want that Blackwing CT5 supercharged V8 in that.  Which is the Corvette C7 ZR1 engine. Better yet. Ill take THAT one as THAT one is 755 HP and 715 ft/lbs torque versus it being detuned to 668 HP and 659 ft/lbs torque. 

I would not want the blue and red lights.  But I would want it CIA black all around  though.  Armoured and bullet proof is a gimme, obviously!   

Skid plate. Powder coated in black. Chevy Bow Tie. In black. No chrome or shiny bits anywhere. 

I havent made up my mind if I would opt for the push bumper bar grille guard.   Yeah. Id add that too!   Front AND rear!  

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, regfootball said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42377/the-2022-subaru-wrxs-base-infotainment-system-is-pretty-bad

 

 

This is the worst console in years, this is like 80s GM level bad.  Even worse is the option with only 1 screen, and you just get a big chuck of black plastic at the top.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, regfootball said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42377/the-2022-subaru-wrxs-base-infotainment-system-is-pretty-bad

 

 

It should be noted that is a base model package and the 11 inch system is still an option.

[Drew Dowdell]

20 hours ago, daves87rs said:

By contract, no. They do give you an buyout price. That said, sales folk will talk you out of it, and dealerships will tell you otherwise. At least the ones that really need cars.

Good places should sell them to you though……

The dealership has no say. When I bought out the Encore I just arranged my financing through the credit Union and they sent the buyout to Ally bank. Dealership was never involved in the process at all.