William Maley

BMW News: Next BMW X5 to Use Underpinnings from 7-Series

63 posts in this topic

William Maley    393

A new BMW X5 is coming within the next year or so and it will be using the same underpinnings as the 7-Series.

 

Autocar reports the next-generation X5 will use BMW's new CLAR - Cluster Architecture - modular platform. This platform is comprised of high-strength steel, aluminium, and carbon fiber. Not only does this cut weight, but increases structural rigidity. CLAR is predominantly built for rear-wheel drive applications, but it can take on an all-wheel drive system.

 

This platform will go on to underpin a number of other BMW vehicles such as the next-generation 3 and 6-Series.

 

Engine choices for the next X5 are reported to be a 3.0L straight-six, a new twin-turbocharged V8, and a 6.0L V12 for the high-end models. There is also the possibility of a hybrid model.

 

One interesting item is that the new X5 will not share much with the recently announced X7 crossover. The X7 will the flagship of BMW's crossover lineup and take on the likes of the Mercedes-Benz GLS-Class and Range Rover. As BMW head of sales and marketing Ian Robertson told Autocar, the X7 will pick various engines across the lineup.

 

Source: Autocar



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dfelt    1,774

So then BMW will attempt to have an CUV to compete against Cadillacs SUV. Be interesting to see if this X7 get compared to the XT7 from Cadillac or if people look at price and compete against Escalade.

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oldshurst442    988
CLAR - Cluster Architecture

 

 

When I read that.....only one thing came to my mind...

Can you folk guess what that might have been?

 

53855893.jpg

 

Because I bought the DVD last week and we watched it another 3 times for a total of 5.

Twice in the movie theatre and thrice more at home...

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smk4565    321

CLAR does sound like a cluster of materials.  The new 7 is lighter than the previous, so I assume they will be able to used this mix material concept and cut weight on all models.  

 

What is interesting is that the X7 is going to be a different platform.  Maybe a Rolls-Royce platform then, but that seems odd that they wouldn't use the 7-series platform for it.  They say there will be a V12 in the X5, that won't happen, the X7 is getting a V12 though.

 

I would assume CLAR must be really flexible, because Mercedes builds the GLE and GLS off an SUV platform they have, it is not shared with any cars.   Thing about the Cadillac XT7 though is it is going to be Enclave based, that won't hold a candle to a rear drive V8 and V12 SUV.

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-----------lSo then BMW will attempt to have an CUV to compete against Cadillacs SUV. Be interesting to see if this X7 get compared to the XT7 from Cadillac or if people look at price and compete against Escalade.

The X5 has always been a unibody RWD/AWD model, so nothing is really changing as far as it's positioning or general layout...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar

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dfelt    1,774

CLAR does sound like a cluster of materials.  The new 7 is lighter than the previous, so I assume they will be able to used this mix material concept and cut weight on all models.  

 

What is interesting is that the X7 is going to be a different platform.  Maybe a Rolls-Royce platform then, but that seems odd that they wouldn't use the 7-series platform for it.  They say there will be a V12 in the X5, that won't happen, the X7 is getting a V12 though.

 

I would assume CLAR must be really flexible, because Mercedes builds the GLE and GLS off an SUV platform they have, it is not shared with any cars.   Thing about the Cadillac XT7 though is it is going to be Enclave based, that won't hold a candle to a rear drive V8 and V12 SUV.

SMK where did you hear officially that the XT7 will be based on the Enclave? I have found nothing and heard nothing to this statement at all.

 

We have no idea what the new platform will be. Yes the XT7 could be a stretched bigger version of the XT5 but nothing has really been stated yet.

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smk4565    321

CLAR does sound like a cluster of materials.  The new 7 is lighter than the previous, so I assume they will be able to used this mix material concept and cut weight on all models.  

 

What is interesting is that the X7 is going to be a different platform.  Maybe a Rolls-Royce platform then, but that seems odd that they wouldn't use the 7-series platform for it.  They say there will be a V12 in the X5, that won't happen, the X7 is getting a V12 though.

 

I would assume CLAR must be really flexible, because Mercedes builds the GLE and GLS off an SUV platform they have, it is not shared with any cars.   Thing about the Cadillac XT7 though is it is going to be Enclave based, that won't hold a candle to a rear drive V8 and V12 SUV.

SMK where did you hear officially that the XT7 will be based on the Enclave? I have found nothing and heard nothing to this statement at all.

 

We have no idea what the new platform will be. Yes the XT7 could be a stretched bigger version of the XT5 but nothing has really been stated yet.

There were pics of a test mule a while back, bit there was some debate. The belief was the XT7 along with Enclave and Traverse would be on long wheel base C2xx, while Acadia and XT5 are short wheel base.

If I we're Cadillac I'd build it on Omega, make it 1,000 lbs lighter than Escalade and put a 400 hp turbo V6 and a 500 HP V8 in there.

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Suaviloquent    713

I think it means do not expect the X5 to lose a TON of weight.

 

The 7 Series did not lose a lot, but that's probably a lot of weight was put back in adding tech equipment for the available features.

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  Thing about the Cadillac XT7 though is it is going to be Enclave based, that won't hold a candle to a rear drive V8 and V12 SUV.

 

 

How do U kno? Just wondering. Your comment about an unknown mule means zero; and quite frankly I'm quite confident that with GM's Platform engineering even if the vehicle was on C2xx there is no guarantee that it will not run circles around the German SUVs. What Benz and BMW should really worry about, in terms of performance, is if Cadillac does use Alpha or Omega.

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smk4565    321

Cadillac should do an Alpha SUV and an Omega SUV.  GM has all these platforms, put them to use.  XT5 is already on C2xx, that is fine for competing with the Lexus RX and Lincolns and Acuras of the world, a D2xx could slot below that in the low $30s.  People buying a low $30s crossover are probably coming from a Rav4 or Ford Edge or something, they'll like the move to a fwd based crossover that drives like what they are used to but has more luxury.  With 2 front drive crossovers you cater to the sheeple that blindly buy anything that is a crossover, and with Alpha and Omega crossovers you can sell performance.

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smk4565    321

The BMW X7 is getting a V12, the only thing GM has that is close is the Z06/CTS-V engine.  They aren't going to match that V12 in smoothness or refinement, they could be close in power and torque.  

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balthazar    1,882

The BMW X7 is getting a V12, the only thing GM has that is close is the Z06/CTS-V engine.  They aren't going to match that V12 in smoothness or refinement, they could be close in power and torque.  

Your information, as usual, is erroneous.

 

BMW V-12 : 592 HP / 590 TRQ

Cadillac V : 640 HP / 630 TRQ

 

Already puts the smack down on the V-12, with a half-liter less displacement & 4 less cylinders. And no smoothness penalty.

BMW's 12 needs a major overhaul.

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smk4565    321

 

The BMW X7 is getting a V12, the only thing GM has that is close is the Z06/CTS-V engine.  They aren't going to match that V12 in smoothness or refinement, they could be close in power and torque.  

Your information, as usual, is erroneous.

 

BMW V-12 : 592 HP / 590 TRQ

Cadillac V : 640 HP / 630 TRQ

 

Already puts the smack down on the V-12, with a half-liter less displacement & 4 less cylinders. And no smoothness penalty.

BMW's 12 needs a major overhaul.

 

I think I read some rumor where BMW might up the power of the V12, as Rolls Royce will use it too.  But if it is the 592 of the 760 which it probably will be, that engine does make peak torque at 1,500 rpm, which is really low.  The CTS-V makes peak torque at 3,600.

 

Regardless though, it is physically impossible to make a V8 as smooth as a V12 or an inline six for that matter.  The V12 is the smoothest engine configuration.  

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balthazar    1,882

You "think" you read "some rumor"??

K.

 

Bottom line; for a 6.6L V-12, the power levels are rather anemic for 2016.

 

 

 

Regardless though, it is physically impossible to make a V8 as smooth as a V12 or an inline six for that matter.

​Point being- there is zero issue with the NVH of the 6.2 V8. Buyers aren't balancing nickels on the plastic engine covers of their shopping choices.

 

But the smoothest configuration of all is the V16. If anyone actually cares.

Edited by balthazar

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smk4565    321

BMW's V12 is a bit weak, they should be getting more power from it, even though it is tuned for low end torque and smoothness.  Mercedes V12 is better and hasn't had a power bump in nearly a decade, although it is supposed to.    Even the Mercedes 4.0 V8 is supposed to make 577 or 612 hp next year.

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Drew Dowdell    4,993

 

 

The BMW X7 is getting a V12, the only thing GM has that is close is the Z06/CTS-V engine.  They aren't going to match that V12 in smoothness or refinement, they could be close in power and torque.  

Your information, as usual, is erroneous.

 

BMW V-12 : 592 HP / 590 TRQ

Cadillac V : 640 HP / 630 TRQ

 

Already puts the smack down on the V-12, with a half-liter less displacement & 4 less cylinders. And no smoothness penalty.

BMW's 12 needs a major overhaul.

 

I think I read some rumor where BMW might up the power of the V12, as Rolls Royce will use it too.  But if it is the 592 of the 760 which it probably will be, that engine does make peak torque at 1,500 rpm, which is really low.  The CTS-V makes peak torque at 3,600.

 

Regardless though, it is physically impossible to make a V8 as smooth as a V12 or an inline six for that matter.  The V12 is the smoothest engine configuration.  

 

 

So wait.. the BMW "only" makes it's 590 lb-ft at 1,500 rpm, and that's the most you'll ever get..... and the CTS-V makes that same 590 lb-ft at 2,000rpm and will continue to deliver another 40 lb-ft  once reaching 3,600rpm...

 

post-51-0-55232000-1462586204_thumb.jpg

.

but somehow the BMW is better and has better power delivery?  What exactly have the Germans been putting in your Kool-Aid?

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smk4565    321

I didn't say better power delivery, but the BMW V12 torque hits really low so it should pull pretty well off the line.   The 600 hp comes in at 5500 rpm on the BMW also, it is hitting it's peak sooner, so that can help make up the 40 hp difference.  Not totally, but the overall power is close.  The Rolls-Royce SUV could have over 760 lb-ft of torque, that could be a whole other animal, and the BMW won't get that tune it sounds like.

 

The thing with the X7 V12 is what is the completion?  Mercedes could do a GLS65 and out power it.  A GLS600 Maybach would have less power.  But they haven't decided anything, and any of that would be next generation of GLS in 2019.   Cadillac could put the CTS-V engine in the Escalde, but look at the weight, at near 6,000 lbs no way would it be as fast as a unibody X7.  

 

And a V12 is a V12.  There is something special about that regardless of the power rating.  I am excited for the X7 in that it will force Mercedes to up their game with the GLS, but the downside is BMW is probably going to steal GLS sales.

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Drew Dowdell    4,993

Uh, no. That is a completely dishonest comparison..comparing when the torque peaks occur is basically immaterial. The BMW and Cadillac produce the same amount of torque within 500rpm of each other, but the Cadillac goes on to produce even more as the RPM climbs while the BMW gets left behind.

No one ever in all the history of automobiles is going to complain about 590 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm (plus more later) verses 590 lb-ft @ 1500 rpm (absolute max)... Except of course you and your badge snobbery.

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balthazar    1,882

Cadillac could put the CTS-V engine in the Escalade, but look at the weight, at near 6,000 lbs no way would it be as fast as a unibody X7.

Piece of cake- aftermarket tuners have built Escalades (LAST generation) going 0-60 in 3.3.

 

'Big E' starts @ 5550 lbs, even the straight-up 6.2L engine is 8.6 lbs/HP. 750 HP is 7.4 lbs/HP, or less than a 4700 lb V-12 SUV @ BMW.

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Drew Dowdell    4,993

Will they test the Escalade-V on the Nurburgring?

I'm not 100% sure they will, but I am 100% sure it doesn't matter. The Housewives of Miami who will buy this can't even pronounce Nurburgring.

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surreal1272    677

Will they test the Escalade-V on the Nurburgring?

Wtf does that matter? Why is it that everytine to get proven wrong, you completely change the subject instead of just manning up and admitting that you don't have a clue about anything that doesn't come from Germany?

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surreal1272    677

Will they test the Escalade-V on the Nurburgring?

Wtf does that matter? Why is it that everytine to get proven wrong, you completely change the subject instead of just manning up and admitting that you don't have a clue about anything that doesn't come from Germany?

Damn autocorrect. Let me revise the first part.

Why is it that everytime YOU get proven wrong...

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