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Intrepidation

2009 Pontiac G3 Wave

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For a little while there, it looked like Pontiac was getting its mojo back. The G8 is terrific, the Solstice GXP Coupe is ready to join the roadster, and the even more awesome G8 GXP is waiting in the wings. All rear-drive. All meant to be fun. And then GM goes and does this.

Behold, friends, the 2009 Pontiac G3 Wave. Yes, that's an Aveo5 with Poncho nostrils, and it reeks of product strategy that's more 1989 than 2009. Why not just call it G3 Le Mans? You know, in honor of the last Daewoo-sourced trashback that helped turn that whole "We Build Excitement" thing into a punchline. By comparison, this makes the equally distressing Pontiac G5 look like a Corvette ZR1 on the cool meter -- and trust us, this is the only scenario in which you'll ever see those two models mentioned in the same sentence again.

The press release after the jump explains that, "More than ever, fuel economy is an important factor in Pontiac's formula of style and performance." In the G3 Waveo, "performance" means red gauge lighting and 106 horsepower channeled through a 5-speed manual or cutting-edge 4-speed automatic. It also gets over 30 mpg highway, so we're supposed to bust out the Veuve Clicquot and celebrate this new era of efficiency at the Pontiac division. Thanks, but we'll skip this party.

The G8 and Solstice are genuinely exciting, desirable cars that had restored some luster to the Arrowhead, but this...

Source: Autoblog

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Sad.. what about a GXP version?

Edited by moltar

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Sad.. what about a GXP version?

Same engine and suspension bits, but you will get a Bugs Bunny Grille as well as a big ugly spoiler. :)

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Hmm... Pontiac Aveo or Ford Fiesta...?

01_fiesta-dsc_1250_opt.jpg

Tough Choice.

Edited by Dodgefan

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I am not a fan of this car but Pontiac has had it share of boring cars over the years. Not all were the ones most remember.

The question is in todays market is there anyone who will buy this one? How can they make this a better car to compete with anything other than a Aveo?

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I hope that there isn't a single one sold to consumers. What the hell is GM/Pontiac thinking with this POS?

The dealers probably demanded it... BPG dealers didn't have anything this small or cheap to compete w/ the Chevy dealers. I wonder if Saturn will get one also.

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Ah yes, how I long for the glory days of Pontiac when all of it's cars were performance cars.....

Did you know that Landau was French for Nurburgring?

dcp_0003.jpg

This Pontiac is so teh sex.... it's got wood.

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I mean... man... look a the stripes on this one... you'll have to fight the chicks off when driving this one..

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Two generations of Sunbird pavement shredding driving excitement....

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Pontiac sportiness the whole family can enjoy

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Race inspired

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It's got a "fast back" because it's fast damnit!!

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CanadiaSport

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CanadiaSportUte

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What? Linebackers play sports too....!

1980s_Pontiac_Safari.jpg

Musn't forget off road sportiness

4pontiac_aztec.jpg

Red plastic wheel covers for the win

lemans.jpg

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Same engine and suspension bits, but you will get a Bugs Bunny Grille as well as a big ugly spoiler. :)

:rotflmao: spot on!

Musn't forget off road sportiness

4pontiac_aztec.jpg

That just screams sportiness!... Well, it just screams something.................. :smilewide:

Edited by ZL-1

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It appears that badge engineering crappy cars is alive and well at GM.

Unfortunately, it appears so.

I think GM needs to do some serious reorganization to their dealer networks so they don't have to churn out this rebadged clone crap in North America anymore. Selling 2 nearly identical vehicles under 2 different brands in the same market is totally unacceptable and serves as an indicator that things haven't really changed all that much at GM.

GM should combine Pontiac/GMC with Chevrolet. Pontiac would get an Alpha based 5-door compact sedan (based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept) and a Sigma-Zeta based midsize sedan (downsized next gen Holden Commodore) plus the Camaro and Corvette; this would position Pontiac as an affordable performance sub-brand of Chevrolet. GMC would be designated as the corporation's sole truck/SUV division. Chevrolet would become the mainstream volume brand with a lineup consisting of affordable FWD cars and FWD/AWD crossovers.

Saturn could be combined with Buick to create the midmarket premium dealer network that serves as a bridge between Chevrolet/Pontiac/GMC and Saab/Cadillac. To save ground up development costs, Euro Opel products would be rebadged and built in North America to supply most of the products for this dealer network (Buick would need 2 or 3 models created specifically for Buick to augment the Opel derived products). Buick would take the lead as the volume division in this network since it has the most premium image of the 2 brands, excellent quality/reliability survey scores, and a high profile in China (the Opel/Buick relationship in China could mirror the Saturn/Buick relationship in North America). Saturn would carry small hatchbacks and MPVs and serve as sort of an entry level small vehicle sub-brand in the dealer network. Buick would carry the sedans, coupes, wagons, and crossovers to reinforce its image as the higher volume premium division in this network. I favored Buick because I believe the brand still has more of a premium perception in the market and would require less effort to be believable and accepted in this role.

This isn't my idea of the perfect scenario, but it seems like it would be a cost effective way to accomplish the following goals:

1) Defining divisions (especially Pontiac) and reinforcing the brands' identities with appropriate products.

2) Avoiding the need to stuff rebadged clones into lineups. Although the lineups for Buick/Saturn would consist of rebadged Opels, at least this would be the only network in which these products would appear in the North American market. Under this plan, each dealer network would have smaller, more fuel efficient products in their lineups without GM resorting to creating rebadged clones.

Edited by cire

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Unfortunately, it appears so.

I think GM needs to do some serious reorganization to their dealer networks so they don't have to churn out this rebadged clone crap in North America anymore. Selling 2 nearly identical vehicles under 2 different brands in the same market is totally unacceptable and serves as an indicator that things haven't really changed all that much at GM.

GM should combine Pontiac/GMC with Chevrolet. Pontiac would get an Alpha based 5-door compact sedan (based on the Holden Torana TT 36 Concept) and a Sigma-Zeta based midsize sedan (downsized next gen Holden Commodore) plus the Camaro and Corvette; this would position Pontiac as an affordable performance sub-brand of Chevrolet. GMC would be designated as the corporation's sole truck/SUV division. Chevrolet would become the mainstream volume brand with a lineup consisting of affordable FWD cars and FWD/AWD crossovers.

Saturn could be combined with Buick to create the midmarket premium dealer network that serves as a bridge between Chevrolet/Pontiac/GMC and Saab/Cadillac. To save ground up development costs, Euro Opel products would be rebadged and built in North America to supply most of the products for this dealer network (Buick would need 2 or 3 models created specifically for Buick to augment the Opel derived products). Buick would take the lead as the volume division in this network since it has the most premium image of the 2 brands, excellent quality/reliability survey scores, and a high profile in China (the Opel/Buick relationship in China could mirror the Saturn/Buick relationship in North America). Saturn would carry small hatchbacks and MPVs and serve as sort of an entry level small vehicle sub-brand in the dealer network. Buick would carry the sedans, coupes, wagons, and crossovers to reinforce its image as the higher volume premium division in this network. I favored Buick because I believe the brand still has more of a premium perception in the market and would require less effort to be believable and accepted in this role.

This isn't my idea of the perfect scenario, but it seems like it would be a cost effective way to accomplish the following goals:

1) Defining divisions (especially Pontiac) and reinforcing the brands' identities with appropriate products.

2) Avoiding the need to stuff rebadged clones into lineups. Although the lineups for Buick/Saturn would consist of rebadged Opels, at least this would be the only network in which these products would appear in the North American market. Under this plan, each dealer network would have smaller, more fuel efficient products in their lineups without GM resorting to creating rebadged clones.

Or not! :smilewide:

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Proof that GM isn't serious about Pontiac.

This brand really has no relevance in the market anymore.

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This product was originally made to appease the Canadian Pontiac dealers, who historically have had lower end product available (see the Tempest). While this is a good move for Canada (this car has been available for about 3-4 years in Canada already) it's not good in the US where Pontiac has a different image. Bringing the Tempest over wouldn't have been a good idea either. Somebody is taking the idea of globalizing the brands and taking it one step too far.

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Thanks for reminding us what Pontiac's modern history really is. Despite all the talk about focusing "divisions" over the last 10 years, the fact is that GM's business strategy hasn't really changed all that much in 40 years. This strategy basically revolves around keeping factory production high by taking a shared architecture/parts and making minor aesthetic changes so that the same car can be reasonably sold through competing dealers.

GM will continue with this strategy because it isn't well-capitalized enough to do otherwise. At some point there will be major dealer attrition due to natural causes (no profit).

Ah yes, how I long for the glory days of Pontiac when all of it's cars were performance cars.....

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Thanks for reminding us what Pontiac's modern history really is. Despite all the talk about focusing "divisions" over the last 10 years, the fact is that GM's business strategy hasn't really changed all that much in 40 years. This strategy basically revolves around keeping factory production high by taking a shared architecture/parts and making minor aesthetic changes so that the same car can be reasonably sold through competing dealers.

GM will continue with this strategy because it isn't well-capitalized enough to do otherwise. At some point there will be major dealer attrition due to natural causes (no profit).

Since this car already has a CTS style fender vent on it, all GM would need to do is slap a Cadillac grille on it along with some interior upgrades (one zillion way heated/cooled power leather seats, a connectivity package, etc.) and it's good to go.

JUST KIDDING!!!

I would rather see GM discontinue some divisions or combine them and limit their lineups to 2 or 3 products than continue to utilize blatant rebadging to supply these divisions with products. All this practice does is give the corporation's naysayers ammunition to declare that nothing much has really changed at GM (they would be totally justified in this case).

I don't have a problem with a small, fuel efficient Pontiac, but I do have a problem with GM just slapping a twin nostril grille on an Aveo and just calling it a day. I don't even have a problem with using rebadging to create products as long as the contributing product and the resulting product are not sold in the same market.

I know some people will claim that they can accept this car if it keeps Pontiac going until GM can "fix" it. I'm not accepting this argument any longer. It has been presented numerous times over the years and GM keeps habitually reverting back to its clone producing methods, even when they were profitable enough to avoid it. With gas prices on the rise, the economy derailed, upcoming CAFE standards, and GM in dire financial straits, I really don't see this happening. If GM intends to keep Pontiac going (which I'm seriously beginning to doubt), the division will continue to be a rebadged Chevy dumping ground. The rebadging practice can only be done so long before a division begins to completely lose its identity or relevance in the market. Pontiac is perilously close if not past this point.

As much as I dislike this car, I do have to admit that it looks much better with Pontiac's front end treatment than the oversized Chevy grille on the Aveo (I don't have anything against Chevy's new divisional grille, but they needed to downsize it to properly fit the subcompact dimensions of the Aveo). I would never consider one based on the principle that I don't want to support GM's rebadging practices, but it does look better than its Chevy twin.

Edited by cire

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Weak.

This along with the 40% of Pontiacs that go to rental lots are why the brand is dead and the G8 isn't selling.

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Oh GM, why hast thou forsaken me!?!? - Pontiac

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This product was originally made to appease the Canadian Pontiac dealers, who historically have had lower end product available (see the Tempest). While this is a good move for Canada (this car has been available for about 3-4 years in Canada already) it's not good in the US where Pontiac has a different image. Bringing the Tempest over wouldn't have been a good idea either. Somebody is taking the idea of globalizing the brands and taking it one step too far.

Yeah, the Wave was sort of the conceptual replacement for the Firefly that Canada had long ago (the Pontiac equivalent of the Geo Metro turd). By the way, did Pontiac Canada have equivalents of the Geo Prizm or Chevy Specrtum?

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Pontiac is changing their motto from "Pontiac is Car" to "Pontiac is Small FWD Car" :smilewide:

Chevy and Saturn already have those niches. Why does Pontiac need that sh*t???

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As long as it sells, and it will with the price of gas even if it is rebadge am I happy. I actually like it more than the big grille Chevrolet verison. Hmmmm maybe my son will want one?

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Also if helps keep Pontiac a-float and raise cafe for "real cars" I am happy. For a compact car I find it pretty pleasing.

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Ya know, as pissed off as I am, it's hella more attractive than the 'elephant meets a witch doctor with shrinking powder' Aveo 5.

I wouldn't mind this too much If GM had left the 4 door at Chevy and given Pontiac exclusive rights to the 5 door.

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Yeah, the Wave was sort of the conceptual replacement for the Firefly that Canada had long ago (the Pontiac equivalent of the Geo Metro turd). By the way, did Pontiac Canada have equivalents of the Geo Prizm or Chevy Specrtum?

I'd rather drive a Prizm than be seen in an Aveo.

At least Prizms aren't ugly, and if I had to choose which foreign company is building it, Japan > Korea.

Edited by Dodgefan

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It's still a Daewoo trash. I would rather want to see American made T-1000, or Phoenix(this time, not a blatent Chevy re-badge) return than this another imported garbage.

Edited by Diehard GrandPrix Fan

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I wouldn't mind this too much If GM had left the 4 door at Chevy and given Pontiac exclusive rights to the 5 door.

That would make sense.... it would be somewhat visually similar to the Vibe.

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hmmm, im GM spent the money they did to rebadge the wave for the US on say, federalizing the Astra OPC.........

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Also if helps keep Pontiac a-float and raise cafe for "real cars" I am happy. For a compact car I find it pretty pleasing.

Agreed.

You guys need to realize that cars like this will pontiac afloat and stop your bitching and moaning about it...

If a cheap rebadge gets me another nice "real" car in the line up, then I am all for it...

Besides, this makes a perfect winter beater for a G8 owner who wants to keep their car salt free... :neenerneener:

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It's still a Daewoo trash. I would rather want to see American made T-1000, or Phoenix(this time, not a blatent Chevy re-badge) return than this another imported garbage.

So it could just a many problems? :confused0071:

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That would make sense.... it would be somewhat visually similar to the Vibe.

Ummm...no.

Have you seen to new Vibes lately? :P

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Pontiac is changing their motto from "Pontiac is Car" to "Pontiac is Small FWD Car" :smilewide:

I don't have a problem with this if GM can eventually steer the division away from rebadged Chevy clones. If this is the plan, does GM intend to eventually give this division some small cars with distinct designs and character?

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Agreed.

You guys need to realize that cars like this will pontiac afloat and stop your bitching and moaning about it...

The point of something like this is just to keep the BPG dealers from whining about not having a cheap car.

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Agreed.

You guys need to realize that cars like this will pontiac afloat and stop your bitching and moaning about it...

If a cheap rebadge gets me another nice "real" car in the line up, then I am all for it...

Besides, this makes a perfect winter beater for a G8 owner who wants to keep their car salt free... :neenerneener:

Nah.

Cars like this put the "damaged" in "damaged brands".

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The point of something like this is just to keep the BPG dealers from whining about not having a cheap car.

We have a winner. That's all it was about.

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We have a winner. That's all it was about.

Of course it was, but GM needs to learn to say no when the dealers request something so wrong for the brand.

Now an E-Flex coupe with aggressive styling might be a nice fit...

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I would tell them to wait until a good car that was actually sport and not a pile of crap was developed.

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Nah.

Cars like this put the "damaged" in "damaged brands".

Well, if you hit it with your truck...... :P

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Of course it was, but GM needs to learn to say no when the dealers request something so wrong for the brand.

Now an E-Flex coupe with aggressive styling might be a nice fit...

Can it be affordable?

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The point of something like this is just to keep the BPG dealers from whining about not having a cheap car.

Well, people have to have a point to come to the dealership....

A customer who came in for a G3 might upgrade to a Vibe (or G6)

Money is tight for most people right now, so regardless what others think, it is not a bad idea (though not great either).....

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A 3-door would have been a smaller dose of poison. Even with the '09 updates, this car looks OLD compared to the Fit and even the Yaris.

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Pontiac is changing their motto from "Pontiac is Car" to "Pontiac is Small FWD Car" :smilewide:

It perplexes me how you can simultaneously call yourself a Pontiac

fan and yet cheer on GM's starvation of the brand. it really does

seem as if they're TRYING to kill off Pontiac. You yourself have said

things to that effect , & yet you always seem to use a smiley face

as if it's funny. You think it's funny that GM is on track to ruining

another great percentage of their legacy and killing off a division

that survived the depression of the 1930s, WWII & even a few bad

decades (sales wise esp.) more recently?

Sick.

I swear PCS I do not understand your motives but it seems you're

getting a paycheck from someone else other than just GM, if you

even work for GM at all.

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A 3-door would have been a smaller dose of poison. Even with the '09 updates, this car looks OLD compared to the Fit and even the Yaris.

It won't beat a Fit (still pretty much the best little car out there), but the 09s are still better than a Yaris or a Accent....

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It perplexes me how you can simultaneously call yourself a Pontiac

fan and yet cheer on GM's starvation of the brand. it really does

seem as if they're TRYING to kill off Pontiac. You yourself have said

things to that effect , & yet you always seem to use a smiley face

as if it's funny. You think it's funny that GM is on track to ruining

another great percentage of their legacy and killing off a division

that survived the depression of the 1930s, WWII & even a few bad

decades (sales wise esp.) more recently?

Sick.

I swear PCS I do not understand your motives but it seems you're

getting a paycheck from someone else other than just GM, if you

even work for GM at all.

68, I think he is joking....but in these tough times-It helps to have a sense of humor.....

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68, I think he is joking....but in these tough times-It helps to have a sense of humor.....

Don't worry Dave, the insane just don't get humor. More B pillars for everyone! :smilewide:

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Still if it keeps Pontiac alive and helps sales volume and keeps Pontiac alive and well I am all for it.

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It perplexes me how you can simultaneously call yourself a Pontiac

fan and yet cheer on GM's starvation of the brand. it really does

seem as if they're TRYING to kill off Pontiac. You yourself have said

things to that effect , & yet you always seem to use a smiley face

as if it's funny. You think it's funny that GM is on track to ruining

another great percentage of their legacy and killing off a division

that survived the depression of the 1930s, WWII & even a few bad

decades (sales wise esp.) more recently?

Sick.

I swear PCS I do not understand your motives but it seems you're

getting a paycheck from someone else other than just GM, if you

even work for GM at all.

PCS is not a GM employee.

He is a minion of someone within GM. He doesn't care about what's good for the company as long as the ass that he kisses gets the attention it needs.

PCS is CLASSIC old skool GM exec. (I can't wait for that retirement party he keeps alluding to)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM

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PCS is not a GM employee.

You're right, I'm not a GM employee, I'm a GME employee. :smilewide:

He is a minion of someone within GM. He doesn't care about what's good for the company as long as the ass that he kisses gets the attention it needs.

I don't think anyone who knows me inside or outside of GME would describe me as a Minion of anyone else. I am very Alpha Male oriented, which I think from time to time rubs people the wrong way. I look at it as all part of my charm. :AH-HA_wink:

PCS is CLASSIC old skool GM exec. (I can't wait for that retirement party he keeps alluding to)

How am I old skool? I started at GM in 1989 (I wasn't part of the Smith, Stemple regime), and I am only 39, I would look at me sticking around until the age of 65 or so, if GM last that long. So FOG, barring GM going bust, you and I have plenty of years left to admire each other. :neenerneener:

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Will it be called the G3 Wave in the US? If so GM might do a "Wave of Excitement" ad! :smilewide:

Edited by ZL-1

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You're right, I'm not a GM employee, I'm a GME employee. :smilewide:

I don't think anyone who knows me inside or outside of GME would describe me as a Minion of anyone else. I am very Alpha Male oriented, which I think from time to time rubs people the wrong way. I look at it as all part of my charm. :AH-HA_wink:

How am I old skool? I started at GM in 1989 (I wasn't part of the Smith, Stemple regime), and I am only 39, I would look at me sticking around until the age of 65 or so, if GM last that long. So FOG, barring GM going bust, you and I have plenty of years left to admire each other. :neenerneener:

Hey, all joking and sarcasm aside, can you get me a job?!?!?

:AH-HA_wink:

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While I'm not thrilled about the idea of a Daewoo-produced, FWD non-sporty econobox in Pontiac's lineup, might this be a way to prop up Pontiac's CAFE numbers, thus allowing them to sell stuff like G8s and G8 STs in greater number?

-RBB

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Saw a 2009 Aveo5 this weekend-looked even worse in person than in pictures-this car's over 5 years old-a full redesign is needed cause these cars suck, and I agree the G3 Wave is unnecessary, almost abominable. Some of those old Pontiacs were cool (the Bonnevilles and Safari), others are crap I want to forever forget about (1000, Korean LeMans, etc.)-seriously, I think its time to sign the papers at this rate...

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Hey, all joking and sarcasm aside, can you get me a job?!?!?

:AH-HA_wink:

I'm sure you've heard that GMNA is laying off employees and closing sites. Why on Earth would you want to work for GMNA? There are jobs in GME, but there are rules about who is allowed to work in Germany/Europe, as you are not a citizen, and I know you wouldn't want to go against your principles and work for GME, the root of all evil. :ph34r:

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Will it be called the G3 Wave in the US? If so GM might do a "Wave of Excitement" ad! :smilewide:

Wow!

Way to make me queasy :puke:

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While I'm not thrilled about the idea of a Daewoo-produced, FWD non-sporty econobox in Pontiac's lineup, might this be a way to prop up Pontiac's CAFE numbers, thus allowing them to sell stuff like G8s and G8 STs in greater number?

-RBB

Why not?

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The G3 isn't going to sell in big enough numbers to effect CAFE in any meanigful way, it will probably sell worse than the G5. Plus, the production capacity for the eleventy-million G8s that people on this board think Pontiac can sell doesn't exist. The G3 and G5 are just GM giving into pressure from BPG dealers to get something cheap onto lots during a downturn in the economy, and the products reflect that.

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The G3 isn't going to sell in big enough numbers to effect CAFE in any meanigful way, it will probably sell worse than the G5. Plus, the production capacity for the eleventy-million G8s that people on this board think Pontiac can sell doesn't exist. The G3 and G5 are just GM giving into pressure from BPG dealers to get something cheap onto lots during a downturn in the economy, and the products reflect that.

I wouldn't bet on that..if gas prices skyrocket again, it wouldn't suprise me if the G3/Aveo twins sell in numbers close to what the j bodies sold in th 80s....

As much I love cars, if gas hits 6 bucks a gallon- there is a good chance that a G3 could grace my driveway...

I do not plan one spending all of my income on my daily driver....

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I wouldn't bet on that..if gas prices skyrocket again, it wouldn't suprise me if the G3/Aveo twins sell in numbers close to what the j bodies sold in th 80s....

As much I love cars, if gas hits 6 bucks a gallon- there is a good chance that a G3 could grace my driveway...

I do not plan one spending all of my income on my daily driver....

+1

You guys whine about $4 a gallon - wait until you hit $5.50, like we are used to. When it costs you $120 to fill up your SUV, your world changes, trust me.

As much as I don't like sharing the Wave with the Aveo, the world hasn't ended. Before this mortgage BS hit the fan, I would have hoped GM could stop this blatant rebadging; however, in light of the market free-fall, all bets are off.

We could easily be returning to the awful days of the early '80s when horsepower and fun were out the window and fuel mileage was the end-all and be-all. One could hope that we won't need to see 83 hp $h!boxes on the road, but one never knows. One more hurricane blows up the gulf and oil could be over $150 a barrel again.

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I'm sure you've heard that GMNA is laying off employees and closing sites. Why on Earth would you want to work for GMNA? There are jobs in GME, but there are rules about who is allowed to work in Germany/Europe, as you are not a citizen, and I know you wouldn't want to go against your principles and work for GME, the root of all evil. :ph34r:

As always, I am innocent.

:AH-HA_wink:

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+1

You guys whine about $4 a gallon - wait until you hit $5.50, like we are used to. When it costs you $120 to fill up your SUV, your world changes, trust me.

As much as I don't like sharing the Wave with the Aveo, the world hasn't ended. Before this mortgage BS hit the fan, I would have hoped GM could stop this blatant rebadging; however, in light of the market free-fall, all bets are off.

We could easily be returning to the awful days of the early '80s when horsepower and fun were out the window and fuel mileage was the end-all and be-all. One could hope that we won't need to see 83 hp $h!boxes on the road, but one never knows. One more hurricane blows up the gulf and oil could be over $150 a barrel again.

:yes:

Cheap AND affordable are very important RIGHT now- rebadge or not......

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I think I'd ride the bus before I would drive a tiny sh*tbox. We need diesels here and now. The Aveo/G3's mileage is pathetic for such a tiny car.

Edited by moltar

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I think I'd ride the bus before I would drive a tiny sh*tbox. We need diesels here and now. The Aveo/G3's mileage is pathetic for such a tiny car.

Bam! I've seen diesel in my area for 3.97/gallon. Well within acceptibility of my paying. Considering that gasoline having kissed $4.97/gallon a few weeks ago; the fuel efficiency of a diesel car would be worth the extra outlay in sustained high fuel prices, and even with lower prices, I could still say Nyah Nyah! if I do get a Golf TDI.

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Bam! I've seen diesel in my area for 3.97/gallon. Well within acceptibility of my paying. Considering that gasoline having kissed $4.97/gallon a few weeks ago; the fuel efficiency of a diesel car would be worth the extra outlay in sustained high fuel prices, and even with lower prices, I could still say Nyah Nyah! if I do get a Golf TDI.

Yes... it's amazing how short-sighted the domestics have been about diesels...hell, my diesel Escort from '84 got over 50 on the highway. Why hasn't Ford had a diesel Focus here the last 8 years? Oh, they've been too busy building 3 ton Super Duty diesels...

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I think I'd ride the bus before I would drive a tiny sh*tbox. We need diesels here and now. The Aveo/G3's mileage is pathetic for such a tiny car.

Well, I could agree with that....but the cars are not that tiny......

They are about the same size as my old 80s Cavalier....

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Well, I could agree with that....but the cars are not that tiny......

They are about the same size as my old 80s Cavalier....

They look awfully small and insubstantial to me--like a modern Geo Metro. The Mini looks much more substantial. The Mini is about the only US market B-segment car I like....looking forward to seeing the Fiesta, though.

Edited by moltar

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They look awfully small and insubstantial to me--like a modern Geo Metro. The Mini looks much more substantial. The Mini is about the only US market B-segment car I like....looking forward to seeing the Fiesta, though.

Well, the hatch reminds me of the Escort.....

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To tell you the truth, I will rather buy that ultra small Smart over this Korean chevy junk re-badged as Pontiac. At least with a smart, you get the look, safety, and gas mileage, which you DON'T get on this crap. It's a bad move by GM. Well, I guess, you can say it's a success to the direction they are headed. Killing of the Pontiac brand.

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To tell you the truth, I will rather buy that ultra small Smart over this Korean chevy junk re-badged as Pontiac. At least with a smart, you get the look, safety, and gas mileage, which you DON'T get on this crap. It's a bad move by GM. Well, I guess, you can say it's a success to the direction they are headed. Killing of the Pontiac brand.

Well, people are going to find Smart cars are not so great either.

When a 10 year old Sunfire can kill you (happened about a week ago here), I'd rather have something I would have a chance in.

At least the Aveo will hold up...

What you don't understand is that everything has changed in the car game. And until things get better, this will help keep Pontiac through the tough times......

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Smarts have a 3 banger and they take premium I'll be god-damned if I'll put 91 in a sub-compact! I'll do it in a Cadillac or performance car maybe... Not a 70hp $h!box. Although they look cool.

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They look awfully small and insubstantial to me--like a modern Geo Metro. The Mini looks much more substantial. The Mini is about the only US market B-segment car I like....looking forward to seeing the Fiesta, though.

Well, I've driven them quite a bit and they are not that bad. I'd still rather have a Cobalt, but there are a lot of people (read: immigrants) who are predisposed to subcompacts, having come from Europe or South America where Aveo-sized cars are the norm.

At this risk of beating a dead horse, the new Aveo is a step up from the old one. I wouldn't necessarily go as far as saying they are peppy, but they are not as embarassing as the Datsun 210s and Dodge Omnis of a generation ago.

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