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DETROIT — General Motors is in preliminary talks about a possible merger with Chrysler, a deal that could drastically remake the landscape of the auto industry by reducing the Big Three of Detroit automakers to the Big Two.

The talks between G.M. and Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity firm that owns Chrysler, began more than a month ago, and the negotiations are not certain to produce a deal. Two people close to the process said the chances of a merger were “50-50” as of Friday and would most likely still take weeks to work out.

A merger would be a historic event, with two of the most iconic names in American industry coming together to survive in an increasingly difficult environment. Both have roots dating back decades in Detroit and, with Ford, long dominated the auto industry — until Japanese and other foreign car makers began making inroads into the American market.

The auto industry is being pummeled from all sides — by high gas prices that have soured consumers on profitable S.U.V.’s, by a softening economy that has scared shoppers away from showrooms, and by tight credit that is making it difficult for willing buyers to obtain loans. Both G.M. and Chrysler have been struggling with product lineups that are out of sync with consumer demand for smaller, more fuel-efficient cars.

General Motors’ stock has fallen from more from more than $42 a share last year to less than $5, and it is burning through its cash hoard at a rapid rate. Chrysler, as a private company, no longer needs to report its finances.

The meetings between General Motors and Cerberus began more than a month ago, said people familiar with the discussions, and the companies have held several talks involving their most senior executives. Given that both G.M. and Chrysler are struggling, the two sides may determine a merger may not be in their best interests.

The exploratory talks have included debates over various calculations of the savings that would result from a merger, these people said, but neither side has yet to dig into each others’ private financial books and records.

At the same time, Cerberus is continuing to hold talks with other automakers including Nissan and Renault, said people familiar with the discussions. It is unclear at what stage those discussions have reached.

Speculation about a possible bankruptcy filing by G.M. has mounted in recent weeks because of the automaker’s dwindling cash reserves. The automaker had $21 billion in cash on hand at the end of the second quarter, but it was burning through more than $1 billion a month.

The credit rating firm Standard & Poor’s put G.M. on negative credit watch on Thursday.

But G.M. has said it is confident that it can increase its liquidity, and emphasized in a statement released Thursday that it was not considering a bankruptcy filing.

G.M. once commanded about 50 percent of market, but its share so far this year has fallen to 22 percent, according to the research firm Autodata. Chrysler had a market share of about 15 percent before acquisition in 1998 by Daimler, but its share this year has dwindled to 11 percent.

How government and labor react to a potential merger of G.M. and Chrysler is unclear. There could be antitrust questions raised, but political issues could be overshadowed by the precarious financial prospects of both automakers.

If G.M., the nation’s largest automaker, combined operations with Chrysler, the smallest of Detroit’s Big Three, they would create an auto giant that would surpass Japan’s Toyota Motor Company, which recently has been battling G.M. for bragging rights as the world’s largest automaker.

A G.M. spokesman declined to comment on any specific talks with Chrysler. “Without referencing this specific rumor, as we’ve often said G.M. officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers,” said the spokesman, Tony Cervone. There was no immediate comment from Cerberus.

People briefed on the deal said the talks started as an exploration of possible joint venture opportunities between G.M. and Chrysler.

Cerberus acquired an 80.1 percent stake in Chrysler in August 2007 for $7.4 billion from the German automaker Daimler AG.

Under the terms of the deal being discussed, Cerberus would end up owning an unspecified equity stake in G.M.-Chrysler, according to people briefed on the talks.

The ramifications of the merger would be enormous in the global auto industry. G.M. and Chrysler together would control more than 35 percent of the United States vehicle market, and be by far the dominant producer of pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles and minivans.

It would also marry such iconic American brands as G.M.’s Chevrolet and Cadillac with Chrysler’s Jeep and Dodge divisions.

However, the potential merger carries enormous risks. Both G.M. and Chrysler are struggling mightily in what is the worst market for vehicle sales in the United States in 15 years.

People close to the discussions said that if the prospective deal did not happen, Cerberus would probably look to Nissan and Renault.

But the marriage of G.M. and Chrysler has far more potential than hitching Chrysler to a foreign automaker. While G.M. and Chrysler may be hamstrung by labor contracts from cutting jobs, the two companies could combine dealers, product lines and advanced vehicle technology.

link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11auto.html?hp

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Just what GM needs:

More brands.

More dealers.

More red ink.

Great move by Cerberus, terrible move by GM.

They kicked Nissan/Renault to the curb for this move?

It's got to be a ploy by Cerberus to get Ghosn to step up and buy Chrysler, as there's absolutely no business reason in the world for GM to do this.

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G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

By BILL VLASIC and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN

Published: October 10, 2008

DETROIT — General Motors is in preliminary talks about a possible merger with Chrysler, a deal that could drastically remake the landscape of the auto industry by reducing the Big Three of Detroit automakers to the Big Two.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business...amp;oref=slogin

Come Watson the game is afoot. Could it work? Enquiring minds might like to savage this topic.

Sweet side-deals with Nissan and others could come of this.

Edited by longtooth
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Just what GM needs:

More brands.

More dealers.

More red ink.

Great move by Cerberus, terrible move by GM.

They kicked Nissan/Renault to the curb for this move?

It's got to be a ploy by Cerberus to get Ghosn to step up and buy Chrysler, as there's absolutely no business reason in the world for GM to do this.

Give it a chance enzl. There are worse alternatives.

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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Well, I can tell you this: if GM merges with Chrysler, the Europeans will once again screw the Chrysler side of things over. At least Mercedes helped Chrysler with rear-drive cars, the first thing that GME will do is take the 300/Charger/Challenger right off the market and replace them with front-drive compact cars.

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Oh c'mon, elaborate.

GM has a deep enough hole to dig out of by itself...they don't need any more extra baggage with Chrysler.

GM-Chrysler = Chevrolet, Dodge, Pontiac, Saturn, Chrysler, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Jeep, Saab, Opel, Holden, Vauxhall. That is one big mess. It will only give GM another excuse to kill off or neuter more brands. Say goodbye to Pontiac and GMC, and maybe Dodge or Chrysler if this happens.

Merging GM and Chrysler will further dilute what makes each company unique.

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What would you say if there were discussions to spin off GME, GMDAT and GM Holden? Or to close GMNA down altogether?

I would say, as with 90% of your self-affirming, subtle I'm-better-than-you posts, its so full of $h! that I can smell it through my cable modem.

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GM has a deep enough hole to dig out of by itself...they don't need any more extra baggage with Chrysler.

GM-Chrysler = Chevrolet, Dodge, Pontiac, Saturn, Chrysler, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Jeep, Saab, Opel, Holden, Vauxhall. That is one big mess. It will only give GM another excuse to kill off or neuter more brands. Say goodbye to Pontiac and GMC, and maybe Dodge or Chrysler if this happens.

Merging GM and Chrysler will further dilute what makes each company unique.

It'd be piece-mealed anyway in the largest garage sale in this hemisphere if nothing's done. A reconstituted GM/Chrysler would have Trucks, Luxury, Bread & Butter vehicles. Access to funding. It'd whittle the UAW down to near insignificance. Even beyond where they exist in a 'Pleasantville'-type limbo now. Old coots such as myself would retire and meet for lunch and tell stories and enjoy our status as anachronisms all the more. Happy to have been there and pleased to be out.

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GM should just treat Chrysler like Daewoo... wait for Chrysler to fall apart (if it actually happens) and then buy the pieces it wants. Either that or just let Nissan/Renault deal with it (which is what I think will happen.)

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What's interesting in this is that Cerberus already owns 51% of GMAC... so I wonder how much of a meltdown this would really cause.

In any case, GM's small-car portfolio is much stronger than Chrysler's, so I'd bet it'd be Chrysler's part that gets the ax. Of course, they could ditch Pontiac and make the G6 the new Sebring, the G3 a new Neon, G8 the new 300, etc...

In any case, it could depend on how much cash Cerberus has on-hand - with GM's market cap currently around $3 billion, it could be bought outright via leveraging on asset sell-off (kinda like what happened with K-Mart and Sears).

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There is no value in the Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep brands for GM. None whatsoever.

Agreed. Also, one of the links posted refers to a swap in which Cerberus would get GM's stake in GMAc and GM would get the Auto operations of the Chrysler Group. So....... no cash involved? You swap assets to get assets that burn cash? Or has Chrysler magically turned around into a cash generating business?

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I thought about this a year or so ago when Chrysler was for sale. The only way it works is if the new company sheds a bunch of dead brands like Dodge, Saab, and Hummer and repositions the leftovers, but Chrysler has become over 40% fleet sales, so they have lost the status to be positioned between Chevy and Cadillac. Chrysler has nothing of value to offer GM, it would just be more brands and dealers at this point, and a dated, uncompetitive product lineup. Bad idea to merge.

It would make more sense to merge with Ford, make Saturn small import style cars again, GMC, Pontiac, Mercury, Hummer, Buick, Saab die, Ford and Chevy handle mainstream, Lincoln is a step up, and Cadillac is a step up from that. Although they could probably keep Buick as well and keep them as soft luxury and Lincoln a little more tech and sportiness like Acura and Infiniti.

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GM+ Chrysler= FAIL

That is the bottom line folks.

What can Chrysler bring to the table? NOTHING.

At this point, I don't think Jeep would even be worth it-They haven't been building real jeeps lately (not counting a few).

And you think GM has a few quality issues? Do we really need to bring issues like bad trans minivans) and cooling issues (Avenger "chill zone") here?

The last thing we need is more baggage.

They would just be better going out of business....granted, unless you wanted a good new TV show....

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I don't know, this all sounds like a media created story to me. I've thought about this from multiple angles and I can't come up with any sort of logic as to how it makes sense for either company.

Edited by usonia
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Give it a chance enzl. There are worse alternatives.

Maybe they could rename the combined company 'American Motors'. :)

Some interesting possibilities. GM has the better FWD compact and midsize lines, GM has the better full size truck and SUV lines (though that market is in decline). Jeep is a credible, international 4WD brand, could replace HUMMER. Chrysler has minivans that actually sell pretty well. Chrysler has an excellent full-size RWD platform (and GM seems to be giving up on theirs). I don't know...seems like a lot of brand and model overlap..not sure what the upside is beyond maybe a better chance at survival?

Edited by moltar
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... If the new company sheds a bunch of dead brands like Dodge ...

:lol:

Next time you have a thought, any thought at all, just do us all a favor and let it go. That little statement just made your whole argument invalid. Bravo.

Edited by YellowJacket894
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Autoblog's reporting that a spokesman for Chrysler has refused to "Confirm or Deny"... Maybe it's happening as you'd think if this story was Buffalo Chips somebody from one of the companies would categorically deny it?

I suppose in a Merged ChryCo and GM situation it would look something like this:

Safe: Chevy, Cadillac, Jeep, Opel

Question Mark: Buick, Chrysler, Saturn

Dead as a Doornail: Dodge, Pontiac, GMC

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Holy $#it! it's too early in the morning for this.

This coud be terrible, yes... but what if, WHAT IF!? it went well and could

be executed the right way? I could see the ultimate company emerging!

------

The Hindenburg was supposed o be filled with 100% harmless helium, not hydrogen.

We, the USA refused to supply Nazi Germany with helium... the rest is history, as we

have seen in those photos from New Jersey & heard in the "Oh the humanity" audio.

The Titanic's doom (Achilles's heel) was FOUR FOLD:

1. Hubris

2. Not enough lifeboats (see no.1)

3. Poor quality of steel, made worse in ultra-frigid waters

4. Design of the (non-sealing) water compartments

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Well... there's your guys answer for what will replace the Zeta platform...... it'll be the LX.

Don't threaten ME with good news!

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We're being told that GMAC's funds are drying up fast. If Cerebrus has access to cash, then that could be what 'Chrysler' brings to the table: a life line. Other than the minivan, there is nothing that Chrysler sells that I would want in my show room.

I think most of this is smoke and mirrors. If GM hopes to pry any cash out of Washington, they need to make it look like they are exploring all options - even one as patently silly as merging with Chrysler.

As has been said, we need fewer brands, not more; fewer dealerships, not more. Dammit, I am sick of having my throat cut by P-B-GMC dealers as it is. The last thing I need is the same rates/programs over at Dodge/Jeep.

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Or how about GM takes the $11 billion Chrysler supposedly has on hand while picking select Chrysler assets for themselves and closes/liquidates the rest of Chrysler LLC. 2009 is projected to be one of the worst years in 25 years. I highly doubt the market will miss Chrysler and Dodge.

GM needs the cash not Chrysler LLC.

Edited by evok
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Or how about GM takes the $11 billion Chrysler supposedly has on hand while picking select Chrysler assets for themselves and closes/liquidates the rest of Chrysler LLC. 2009 is projected to be one of the worst years in 25 years. I highly doubt the market will miss Chrysler and Dodge.

GM needs the cash not Chrysler LLC.

Aren't you the smart boy! :smilewide: I've said for over a year, GM needs to have Jeep.

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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There are no products in any Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep showroom that GM needs. Absolutely nothing.

I would rather see Chrysler merge with Renault/Nissan.

A GM/Chrysler merger would be like 2 drunks trying to help each other across a busy street...

I could see the 2 automakers forming some collaboration deals to save some development costs, but a total merger seems like a foolish deal.

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That would be selfish and sad. :angry:

I would miss Chryser, Dodge & Jeep. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, the market would not miss them.<_<

That's a great plan.... have Hon-DUH & Toyo-DUR pick up a nice big chunk of their market share. :fiery:

Without Chrysler, their LX platform, (V10/Cummins TD-I6) Ram pickups of the 1990s, and other daring products like

Viper, Prowler, and even the PT, the American car market would be much sadder and more pathetic.

This may be a GM forum but spitting on Chrysler's image, history & importance is despicable.

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There are no products in any Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep showroom that GM needs. Absolutely nothing.

GM could use their minivans, since GM has given up on them. And Jeep would give them some good compact and midsize SUVs.

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A total merger seems like a waste to me too.

GM has a couple of good vehicles, the Corvette, the imported Holdens. Chrysler has the new Dodge Ram and the LX/LY cars...

Both are bringing out electric vehicles soon if one believes the hype... but from what I hear the cost will probably ruin their sales as well.

Cerberus is a MONEY management type company, what would they want with GM in a time of economic downturn? I'm guessing it's NOT gonna happen.

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Yup, Jeep is the only brand I can see having value for GM, though how much value is questionable, as the media makes SUVs "evil". GM could still make Hummer into a real jeep competitor, but it's obvious they won't (and their money is better spent elsewhere anyway). Yeah... if this goes through, I'm sure we can look forward to several brands being axed.

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That would be selfish and sad. :angry:

I would miss Chryser, Dodge & Jeep. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, the market would not miss them.<_<

That's a great plan.... have Hon-DUH & Toyo-DUR pick up a nice big chunk of their market share. :fiery:

Without Chrysler, their LX platform, (V10/Cummins TD-I6) Ram pickups of the 1990s, and other daring products like

Viper, Prowler, and even the PT, the American car market would be much sadder and more pathetic.

This may be a GM forum but spitting on Chrysler's image, history & importance is despicable.

I would definitely miss Jeep and their RWD cars!

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GM could use their minivans, since GM has given up on them.

Volkswagen, Chrysler, Dodge..... how many Chrysler minivans can there be?!?!

Like I said, I sure hope it ain't gonna happen. Chrysler already rebadges too many vehicles. Forget letting every other company rebadge their vehicles too IMO.

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That would be selfish and sad. :angry:

I would miss Chryser, Dodge & Jeep. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, the market would not miss them.<_<

That's a great plan.... have Hon-DUH & Toyo-DUR pick up a nice big chunk of their market share. :fiery:

Without Chrysler, their LX platform, (V10/Cummins TD-I6) Ram pickups of the 1990s, and other daring products like

Viper, Prowler, and even the PT, the American car market would be much sadder and more pathetic.

This may be a GM forum but spitting on Chrysler's image, history & importance is despicable.

That's MY take too.

Without Chrysler things (domestically) would get boring FAST. I like their "off the beaten track" path they have taken, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

The more DOMESTIC competition there is the better as far as I'm concerned. Soon it will be one domestic merged blob against all the imports. Something I sure don't want to ever see.

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Cerberus is a MONEY management type company, what would they want with GM in a time of economic downturn? I'm guessing it's NOT gonna happen.

Maybe Cerebus is looking at unloading Chrysler on GM..

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That's MY take too.

Without Chrysler things (domestically) would get boring FAST. I like their "off the beaten track" path they have taken, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

Yes, agreed. From the amazing art deco cars of the 1930s to the

Imperials of days gone by, the WWII-air raid siren HEMI V8s that

made their way into so many hot rods and by extension gave birth

to the HEMI's second coming in the 1960s, the Virgil Exner era as

well as the wacky 1960s and 1970s mopars, to the post-K-car era

of cab-forward and RWD..... Chrysler is a bright, shining proud star

on the flag of American Automotive (Living) Legends.

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LOL

I guess you guys figure that Cerberus is a bunch of nimwits.

Somehow I have a feeling the common concensus here isn't based on people with economic degrees, but wishful thinking by the common internet folk.

It's speculation on a possible merger, and I doubt it's going to happen. I'll wait to see what happens in REAL LIFE before passing judgement! lol

:AH-HA_wink:

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Yes, agreed. From the amazing art deco cars of the 1930s to the

Imperials of days gone by, the WWII-air raid siren HEMI V8s that

made their way into so many hot rods and by extension gave birth

to the HEMI's second coming in the 1960s, the Virgil Exner era as

well as the wacky 1960s and 1970s mopars, to the post-K-car era

of cab-forward and RWD..... Chrysler is a bright, shining proud star

on the flag of American Automotive (Living) Legends.

Even Chrysler's failures were standouts at times.

The Airflows were NOT hot sellers, but they were "cars before their times" IMO.

I love alot of automotive stuff, domestic and imported, the stuff I love the most is NOT the "mainstream" or "safe" stuff. I don't like mid 80's Toyota Corollas despite how many zillions were sold.

The truly inspirational cars over time were mostly all "off the beaten path" in ways. That's why I've always liked MoPars.

Less domestic competition is NOT a good thing IMO. It's a bad thing.

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LOL

I guess you guys figure that Cerberus is a bunch of nimwits.

Somehow I have a feeling the common concensus here isn't based on people with economic degrees, but wishful thinking by the common internet folk.

It's speculation on a possible merger, and I doubt it's going to happen. I'll wait to see what happens in REAL LIFE before passing judgement! lol

:AH-HA_wink:

Well then, in "REAL LIFE" as you are pleased to put it, how does the evaporation of wealth sit with you? There is no guide-book to consult for a solution to what we're facing now. No "Market Crash Analysis for Dummies". Pro-active trumps inactive here. Being prudent is one thing but he/she that hesitates may be lost.

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Well then, in "REAL LIFE" as you are pleased to put it, how does the evaporation of wealth sit with you? There is no guide-book to consult for a solution to what we're facing now. No "Market Crash Analysis for Dummies". Pro-active trumps inactive here. Being prudent is one thing but he/she that hesitates may be lost.

Swallowing up domestic competition is NOT what GM needs.

A guidebook to the market crash would be akin to a guidebook to "how to stop a tidal wave" IMO too. The economy has to turn around, and no single elected politician, no single piece of legislation, and no one single strategy is going to "fix" the situation. Domestic cars are in trouble, but they are NOT the "only thing" in trouble. They are a true "big ticket" item, and they will therefore be first to feel a huge economic crunch like is happening now.

To keep domestics afloat there has to be more purchases of domestics. This merger possibility will do nothing whatsoever for that scenario IMO.

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Swallowing up domestic competition is NOT what GM needs.

A guidebook to the market crash would be akin to a guidebook to "how to stop a tidal wave" IMO too. The economy has to turn around, and no single elected politician, no single piece of legislation, and no one single strategy is going to "fix" the situation. Domestic cars are in trouble, but they are NOT the "only thing" in trouble. They are a true "big ticket" item, and they will therefore be first to feel a huge economic crunch like is happening now.

To keep domestics afloat there has to be more purchases of domestics. This merger possibility will do nothing whatsoever for that scenario IMO.

IMO: It'd remove continuing excess in the over-supply. GM/Chrysler realize the dire nature of the situation. America is part and parcel of the levelling of the global playing field. Trade agreements will require transparency going forward. Patriotism could be construed as providing economic security for the citizenry here.

'Charity' begins at home.

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IMO: It'd remove continuing excess in the over-supply. GM/Chrysler realize the dire nature of the situation.

If present sales over whatever length of time for both companies combined are 1,000,000- and GM makes up 800,000 and Chrysler makes up 200,000 for the total, how will merging the two companies increase the sales of domestics?

If they merge the combined company will have to manufacture and sell 1,000,000 cars to stay in the same production numbers. Because 200,000 Chryslers won't be "counted" in what you seem to imply, it doesn't make sense in the big picture. It is DECREASING domestic sales if less than 1,000,000 vehicles sell.

It's NOT the way IMO, but I'm sure many will disagree.

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How government and labor react to a potential merger of G.M. and Chrysler is unclear. There could be antitrust questions raised, but political issues could be overshadowed by the precarious financial prospects of both automakers.
Umm, what?

Since when does our government actually regulate business? Oh, wait, I forgot. This is Detroit and the government will do anything it can to screw them over.

Antitrust over 33% (or likely less in a year) market share? WTF?

If G.M., the nation’s largest automaker, combined operations with Chrysler, the smallest of Detroit’s Big Three, they would create an auto giant that would surpass Japan’s Toyota Motor Company, which recently has been battling G.M. for bragging rights as the world’s largest automaker.

Umm, yeah. Except it wouldn't take that much over what GM has now (share-wise) to surpass Toyota, so this isn't as EPIC as the article makes it out to be.

I'll tell you what this boils down to...

Cerberus and GM have been talking technology tie ups for A LONG time now. But now that the market has soured, Chrysler is bleeding Cerberus. So Cerberus is looking to unload Chrsyler, probably a lot earlier than it had originally planned. GM is a natural because of the strategic advantages that could be gained (Despite the HUGE risks) but Nissan is probably more likely to happen.

What would you say if there were discussions to spin off GME, GMDAT and GM Holden? Or to close GMNA down altogether?

I'd say that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

And I'd say the american government and media had finally succeeded in destroying GM.

I don't know, this all sounds like a media created story to me. I've thought about this from multiple angles and I can't come up with any sort of logic as to how it makes sense for either company.

It probably is... The goal would be to de-value GM that much more.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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GM has a deep enough hole to dig out of by itself...they don't need any more extra baggage with Chrysler.

GM-Chrysler = Chevrolet, Dodge, Pontiac, Saturn, Chrysler, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Jeep, Saab, Opel, Holden, Vauxhall. That is one big mess. It will only give GM another excuse to kill off or neuter more brands. Say goodbye to Pontiac and GMC, and maybe Dodge or Chrysler if this happens.

Merging GM and Chrysler will further dilute what makes each company unique.

True that. But I would rather see the company remain american.

What's interesting in this is that Cerberus already owns 51% of GMAC... so I wonder how much of a meltdown this would really cause.

In any case, GM's small-car portfolio is much stronger than Chrysler's, so I'd bet it'd be Chrysler's part that gets the ax. Of course, they could ditch Pontiac and make the G6 the new Sebring, the G3 a new Neon, G8 the new 300, etc...

In any case, it could depend on how much cash Cerberus has on-hand - with GM's market cap currently around $3 billion, it could be bought outright via leveraging on asset sell-off (kinda like what happened with K-Mart and Sears).

If anything, Chrysler would be a better replacement for Buick. (And I don't think that would EVER happen)

Safe: Chevy, Cadillac, Jeep, Opel

Question Mark: Buick, Chrysler, Saturn

Dead as a Doornail: Dodge, Pontiac, GMC

Why does everyone here seem to think that Chrysler is in so much better shape than Dodge?!?!

If ANYTHING, Chrysler is the WEAKEST division at Chrysler Corp.

Lateral move at best... LX can't support a 6A, Zeta can't be AWD (I think).

I thought LY was coming on line soon? Or has it been canceled too?

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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It probably is... The goal would be to de-value GM that much more.

For what it is worth: Yesterday President Bush remarked that the SEC would go after anyone trashing stocks with intent to devalue. The entire system would benefit from such vigilance.

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If present sales over whatever length of time for both companies combined are 1,000,000- and GM makes up 800,000 and Chrysler makes up 200,000 for the total, how will merging the two companies increase the sales of domestics?

If they merge the combined company will have to manufacture and sell 1,000,000 cars to stay in the same production numbers. Because 200,000 Chryslers won't be "counted" in what you seem to imply, it doesn't make sense in the big picture. It is DECREASING domestic sales if less than 1,000,000 vehicles sell.

It's NOT the way IMO, but I'm sure many will disagree.

I was explicit enough. I did not infer what you have stated.

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That would be selfish and sad. :angry:

I would miss Chryser, Dodge & Jeep. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, the market would not miss them.<_<

That's a great plan.... have Hon-DUH & Toyo-DUR pick up a nice big chunk of their market share. :fiery:

Without Chrysler, their LX platform, (V10/Cummins TD-I6) Ram pickups of the 1990s, and other daring products like

Viper, Prowler, and even the PT, the American car market would be much sadder and more pathetic.

This may be a GM forum but spitting on Chrysler's image, history & importance is despicable.

While I agree with you, I can see his point as well.

Sadly, I don't think the market would miss MOST of our proud domestic brands. People just don't give a &#036;h&#33; anymore.

As far as divisions go...

Well, I could see this scenario definitley happening: (Sadly) Dodge replacing Pontiac and maybe even GMC (Because Dodge can make and sell more trucks than GMC and Dodge has a stronger image of sporty cars than Pontiac -- to most, all in one division.

Jeep would be the spiritual successor to Hummer. (That's a natural)

Chrysler would go the way of Oldsmobile, along with Pontiac and maybe GMC & Hummer.

That's MY take too.

Without Chrysler things (domestically) would get boring FAST. I like their "off the beaten track" path they have taken, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

The more DOMESTIC competition there is the better as far as I'm concerned. Soon it will be one domestic merged blob against all the imports. Something I sure don't want to ever see.

It already is...

Thank the media and citizens for that.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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GM's going to take Chrysler's money and her key assets, and leave her like a 5 dollar whore by the side of the road, bruised, bloodied and near death .

Isn't that pretty much what Daimler did in the first place?

Even Chrysler's failures were standouts at times.

The Airflows were NOT hot sellers, but they were "cars before their times" IMO.

I love alot of automotive stuff, domestic and imported, the stuff I love the most is NOT the "mainstream" or "safe" stuff. I don't like mid 80's Toyota Corollas despite how many zillions were sold.

The truly inspirational cars over time were mostly all "off the beaten path" in ways. That's why I've always liked MoPars.

Less domestic competition is NOT a good thing IMO. It's a bad thing.

I think that's why I've migrated from Chevrolet more to Pontiac as far as GM is concerned.

If present sales over whatever length of time for both companies combined are 1,000,000- and GM makes up 800,000 and Chrysler makes up 200,000 for the total, how will merging the two companies increase the sales of domestics?

If they merge the combined company will have to manufacture and sell 1,000,000 cars to stay in the same production numbers. Because 200,000 Chryslers won't be "counted" in what you seem to imply, it doesn't make sense in the big picture. It is DECREASING domestic sales if less than 1,000,000 vehicles sell.

It's NOT the way IMO, but I'm sure many will disagree.

I agree...

The whole "merger" fest we've seen in the past 30 years (In every business segment) has done nothing but homogenize product, limit technology and eff over consumers.

Talk about antitrust issues... Why do I not get to choose who I get my electricity or natural gas from? Why can I only buy from one supermarket? (In the rural south a lot of times one brand dominates the whole area)

Yet these idiots (government and analysts) are worrying about a merger of 33% market share...

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Or how about GM takes the $11 billion Chrysler supposedly has on hand while picking select Chrysler assets for themselves and closes/liquidates the rest of Chrysler LLC. 2009 is projected to be one of the worst years in 25 years. I highly doubt the market will miss Chrysler and Dodge.

GM needs the cash not Chrysler LLC.

:yes:

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Or how about GM takes the $11 billion Chrysler supposedly has on hand while picking select Chrysler assets for themselves and closes/liquidates the rest of Chrysler LLC. 2009 is projected to be one of the worst years in 25 years. I highly doubt the market will miss Chrysler and Dodge.

GM needs the cash not Chrysler LLC.

How much cash will GM and Chrysler burn through the whole process, though?

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I was explicit enough. I did not infer what you have stated.

Then when you wrote THIS, what did you possibly mean??!?

IMO: It'd remove continuing excess in the over-supply.

How would a merger remove ANY "over supply"? A single company would be pumping out the same products, and would need an increase in sales from the COMBINATION of both companies to improve.

I don't see your point.

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GM's going to take Chrysler's money and her key assets, and leave her like a 5 dollar whore by the side of the road, bruised, bloodied and near death .

Now that's a plan I'd agree with; I'd especially love to see GM pick up Jeep if at all possible.

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QUOTE(Pontiac Custom-S @ Oct 11 2008, 09:59 AM)

GM's going to take Chrysler's money and her key assets, and leave her like a 5 dollar whore by the side of the road, bruised, bloodied and near death .

Now that's a plan I'd agree with

LOL

It's amazing that people here actually think Cerberus is just gonna toss cash and assets at GM and walk away.

Amazing.

Edited by CMG
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Wow, there's so much hate against Chrysler in here I can almost cut it with a knife.

I've never seen so many people on one forum blinded by brand in my life.

I'm astonished there isn't such hatred here towards Toyota etc.... Why hate the little guy is far beyond me?

*shrugs*

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LOL

It's amazing that people here actually think Cerberus is just gonna toss cash and assets at GM and walk away.

Amazing.

Cerberus would become GM largest shareholder.It's very likely that GM stock goes from $5.00 a share to $150+ a share , now think about all the money Cerberus would have made off of GM raping and killing Chrysler far worster than Daimler ever did.

That just gave me an idea :scratchchin: :

Ford is next to be raped by :gm_logo:

:bowdown::bowdown:

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Cerberus would become GM largest shareholder.It's very likely that GM stock goes from $5.00 a share to $150+ a share , now think about all the money Cerberus would have made off of GM raping and killing Chrysler far worster than Daimler ever did.

That just gave me an idea :scratchchin: :

Ford is next to be raped by :gm_logo:

:bowdown::bowdown:

LOL

The import crowd must be laughing reading all these threads and posts.

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Chrysler has nothing to bring to the table, none of their stuff is competitive anymore, their interiors are bad, engines are dated and unrefined, and the LX platform is old too. Chrysler and GM are both too deep in debt, with declining revenue and not turning a profit. If either were that appealing to buy, Toyota would have done it already. I don't think this merger will happen, but I do think Chrysler will be bankrupt and gone by 2015.

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Chrysler has nothing to bring to the table, none of their stuff is competitive anymore, their interiors are bad, engines are dated and unrefined, and the LX platform is old too. Chrysler and GM are both too deep in debt, with declining revenue and not turning a profit. If either were that appealing to buy, Toyota would have done it already. I don't think this merger will happen, but I do think Chrysler will be bankrupt and gone by 2015.

LOL

Cerberus owns over 50% of GMAC don't they?

Maybe Cerberus wants to unload THAT portion of their "worthless" assets...???

:rolleyes:

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I've never seen so many people on one forum blinded by brand in my life.

I'm astonished there isn't such hatred here towards Toyota etc.... Why hate the little guy is far beyond me?

*shrugs*

You must be blind if you dont see all the Toyota hatred on C&G. GM4life once started a thread in which he stated he wanted to kill Toyota drivers, or something to that effect.

The way I see it, Cerebrus never wanted to keep Chrysler, thats not what they do, so I wouldn't be surprised if they at least tried to feel out GM for some sort of sale/asset swap/whatever. GM could then use the Chrysler products that do sell while dumping the rest. They would have to keep at least one of the 3 brands around (probably Dodge, maybe Chrysler) to avoid having to pay out billions to close all their dealerships, even then Chrysler/Dodge dont have nearly as many shared dealerships as GM, so even closing down one sales channel would be expensive. Jeep would be a welcome addition to the GM lineup.

Think of the alternative, Toyota could buy Chrysler.

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