Cadillac News: Cadillac To Replace Three Sedans With One

[William Maley]

Cadillac's sedan lineup in the future is going to look much smaller. Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen told Reuters in an interview that the ATS, CTS, and XTS will not be directly replaced when their lifecycles end in 2019. A new model called the CT5 will take their place and cost between $35,000 and $45,000.

"We have to rebalance our sedan portfolio," de Nysschen.

The CT6 will take care of the top end, while a new small luxury sedan (possibly named CT4) will handle the low end.

de Nysschen reiterated plans of Cadillac building out their crossover lineup with the XT4 launching in 2019. de Nysschen also mentioned that Cadillac could be launching a range of electric vehicles in the latter half of the next decade.

Source: Reuters

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[A Horse With No Name]

Seems rational enough.

[David]

 to de Nysschen. This is common sense and Cadillac should already have EV's planned, more hybrids and the XT4 and 6 should be here at auto shows this fall with roll out next year. He is proving himself to be too little too late as he did at every other auto company he worked at. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 to de Nysschen. This is common sense and Cadillac should already have EV's planned, more hybrids and the XT4 and 6 should be here at auto shows this fall with roll out next year. He is proving himself to be too little too late as he did at every other auto company he worked at. 

We will see how all of this plays out.

[David]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

We will see how all of this plays out.

Yet based on idiot boy, the Germans and Asians will have luxury hybrids and EV's out before Cadillac even shows one. So many have stated to have them out by 2020 and he is saying later half of 2020-2030.

Me think he blew his wad on moving Cadillac to NY and saying look at me as head of Cadillac rather than building and delivering awesome auto's.

[Stew]

Called it!

[cp-the-nerd]

Sad. And the naming scheme roll-out is embarrassing.

Cadillac: "We're introducing the CT6 and XT5 to start the new naming system."

Person: "What about the ATS, CTS, and XTS?"

Cadillac: "We'll build them till 2019."

Person: "With the old names?"

Cadillac: "I don't understand the question."

Brand development has gone nowhere since the move out of detroit, and the gorgeous design potential from yearly concepts has simply been left on the back burner while the current aging design language (that peaked on the 2014 CTS) has been beaten to death in the CT6 and XT5.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Called it!

In fairness, so did everyone else. 

[Stew]

19 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

In fairness, so did everyone else. 

Not really, a certain Caddy lover was telling us how awesome the new ATS is going to be lol. 

[A Horse With No Name]

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

In fairness, so did everyone else. 

Indeed...

[FAPTurbo]

can you be 'standard of the world' if your brand has fewer cars than there is continents?

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Not really, a certain Caddy lover was telling us how awesome the new ATS is going to be lol. 

So what? That still doesn't change the fact that pretty much everyone else knew better. You are not unique in your position here. 

 

Furthermore, he also stated that the ATS would become the CT4 (which it is) so your  statement isn't even entirely correct in that department either. In other words, saying "called it" really doesn't carry much weight when so many others here also "called it" in one form or another. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by surreal1272

[cp-the-nerd]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Not really, a certain Caddy lover was telling us how awesome the new ATS is going to be lol. 

Who are you referring to? If this is somehow a reference to me, I stated that a new sedan and crossover would be debuting next year with the new design language. I assumed the model would be the ATS replacement and it happens to be an ATS/CTS replacement.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

 to de Nysschen. This is common sense and Cadillac should already have EV's planned, more hybrids and the XT4 and 6 should be here at auto shows this fall with roll out next year. He is proving himself to be too little too late as he did at every other auto company he worked at. 

Audi and Infiniti sales went up after he left.  All he is doing here is gutting their sport sedans to sell some re-worked Equinoxes and Enclaves.

[regfootball]

the so called CT5 better be the CTS as it is sized now.

Cadillac can only really move mid size and large sedans in the US.  If the Ct5 is smaller than the CTS then Johan has really screwed the pooch.  MURICANS love size.  Cadillac buyers think the current CTS is small.  You can make a CT3 or CT4 if you want, but the CT5 better be current CTS sized.

Call me crazy but i for one would love to see the current CTS in a wagon form (yes few would buy it but humor me pls)

It is smart to work out the CT6 bugs and then roll out more versions of it and sell it in greater volume going forward.  It's not going to get much love until a v8 shows up under the hood, unfortunately.

Who can photoshop photomash a current CT6 and a 1980 Seville humpback rear end for me into an image?  Methinks the Ct6 has the right proportions to pull off the ultimate retro + new mashup into a sick hatchback with classique caddy look....

 

 

 

 

I am guessing these delays on getting Cadillac fixed have as much to do with plant scheduling and union contracts / production planning as anything.

[smk4565]

I said something the other day in the sedan axing thread, that probably what Cadillac will do is make an Infiniti Q50 size car, someone else said they should go back to the tweener CTS, and it sounds like that is the plan.  They'll probably do a 190 inch long car that splits the size difference between the current ATS and CTS, price the turbo 4 model at like $37,990.  Then the CT6 will be where it sits today.  Sort of what Lincoln has with MKZ and Continental. 

3 front drive crossovers and the Escalade will round out the line up, and Johan will have wrecked this brand even more than it was in 2012 which seems almost impossible.

[regfootball]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I said something the other day in the sedan axing thread, that probably what Cadillac will do is make an Infiniti Q50 size car, someone else said they should go back to the tweener CTS, and it sounds like that is the plan.  They'll probably do a 190 inch long car that splits the size difference between the current ATS and CTS, price the turbo 4 model at like $37,990.  Then the CT6 will be where it sits today.  Sort of what Lincoln has with MKZ and Continental. 

3 front drive crossovers and the Escalade will round out the line up, and Johan will have wrecked this brand even more than it was in 2012 which seems almost impossible.

2017 CTS dims

196″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H

i think 190 inches would cut into cabin space a lot.

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, regfootball said:

2017 CTS dims

196″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H

i think 190 inches would cut into cabin space a lot.

But you are replacing the ATS too.  I think they are just going to give up on mid-size, the E-class has that segment sewn up, Lexus might cancel the GS also.  There is still volume at the C-class/3-series segment, A4, Q50 and IS all sell solid numbers.  They want to get into that $35-45k entry lex sedan market, MKZ and Acura TSX are mid-sizers in that price range, Cadillac probably thinks with a mid-sizer are $35k base they can get 2500 units a month.

[surreal1272]

I'm failing to see the problem here despite the usual naysayers trolling remarks. Basically the CTS becomes the CT5 and the ATS becomes the CT4. That's three different sedans plus a potential CT8 flagship model to go with the additional CUVs planned. This has been in the works for years. At least they are not pulling a Mercedes and putting out an even smaller FWD car (the A Class) to go underneath the already small FWD CLA. It will all be RWD like a luxury car is supposed to be. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

Just now, surreal1272 said:

I'm failing to see the problem here despite the usual naysayers trolling remarks. Basically the CTS becomes the CT5 and the ATS becomes the CT4. That's three different sedans plus a potential CT8 flagship model to go with the additional CUVs planned. This has been in the works for years. At least they are pulling a Mercedes and putting out an even smaller FWD car (the A Class) to go underneath the already small FWD CLA. It will all be RWD like a luxury car is supposed to be. 

I wonder if that CT4 will ever even happen, and if it does, it will probably be a Cruze based car as Autoline says the target would be the Audi A3.  The CT5 is going to be priced at back where the 2008 CTS was, I imagine they will size it like an 08 CTS.  There will never be a CT8.  Too costly for too little revenue.

[smk4565]

So the CTS will be gone, Lexus GS is rumored to be gone, and the Infiniti Q70 is well past it's prime and may not be replaced at the end of it's life cycle.  The E-class is cleaning out this segment.

[balthazar]

Yay- less choice means the consumer LOSES.

CTS is getting a next generation and a name inline with the new convention. You'd like to believe it's 'gone' due to the E but it's not going anywhere. If it did, what would the E63 benchmark??

[daves87rs]

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Indeed...

Yep....writing has been on the wall for quite some time now. Working for the auto industry gave me quite some insight on so many things...

Guess I could repeat what I said on facebook about the same matter....

It's about time- I fear GM may be late to the party.....again.......

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Yay- less choice means the consumer LOSES.

CTS is getting a next generation and a name inline with the new convention. You'd like to believe it's 'gone' due to the E but it's not going anywhere. If it did, what would the E63 benchmark??

The consumer chose SUVs, so unless you have a great sedan, the consumer doesn't seem to want it.  Maybe this is just change in taste, maybe it started in the 90s when American car companies made terrible sedans and people went to Explorers and Grand Cherokees and wrote off American sedans.   The Camry and Accord are still going strong, the weaker sedans are just dropping out of the market.  Olds, Pontiac, Scion, Saturn, Saab, and Suzuki were the weak cars, they went away, Dodge Avenger, Dodge Dart, Chrysler 200 followed.  Now the next round of cuts will be Taurus, Impala, Azera, these Cadillacs, probably Infiniti Q70, Jaguar XJ, etc.  

The E63 will benchmark what Mercedes always benchmarks, themselves.  No reason to copy the people that are chasing them.  

CT5 is going to be $35-45k, that is more inline with an A4, but I bet it is a mid-size car, so more like Lincoln MKZ size and price.  Bad idea in the first place to take the CTS which was an entry level car and put it against the 5-series/E-class.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So the CTS will be gone, Lexus GS is rumored to be gone, and the Infiniti Q70 is well past it's prime and may not be replaced at the end of it's life cycle.  The E-class is cleaning out this segment.

You think way to highly of the E Class considering that the CTS will still be there, just under a different that has been in the works for a while now. 

 

And im with Balth. The E63 would be $h! if it didn't have the CTS-V to benchmark. Fact. 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I wonder if that CT4 will ever even happen, and if it does, it will probably be a Cruze based car as Autoline says the target would be the Audi A3.  The CT5 is going to be priced at back where the 2008 CTS was, I imagine they will size it like an 08 CTS.  There will never be a CT8.  Too costly for too little revenue.

Do you not read? 

 

Nevermind. It was rhetorical. 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Audi and Infiniti sales went up after he left.  All he is doing here is gutting their sport sedans to sell some re-worked Equinoxes and Enclaves.

Is that better or worse than a rebadged Nissan Frontier? I'm asking for a friend. 

[balthazar]

• Camry sells a lot, relatively, but it's not a great car from a terrible company and it's off it's 2007 peak by a full 25% (2017 on pace for 352K vs. 473K).
• E63 had better benchmark the quickest & best handling sport sedan, not the #2 car.
• A4 is only 4 inches longer than the ATS- the CT5 is not going all the way down to the size of the ATS.
• CTS was an entry-level car in 2002, not in 2014. I could see it notching down a few thousand & adding content/features. Tho there'd be one plus IF the CT5 was A4-sized, it would mean anything smaller would be pointless- "no one is buying" the A3.

[smk4565]

Another thing to consider, the LaCrosse is probably dead around 2019 or 2020 also.  So all the more reason to make the CT5 midsize so it can replace the Lacrosse, XTS, ATS and CTS.  Starting in the mid to high $30s is a price point that previous generation CTS buyers liked, and allows current ATS and LaCrosse buyers to afford it.  Rueters said CT6 would be around $50,000, I assume the current $55k will stay.    

I also wonder if V-series will be dead in 2020.  They aren't going to do a V-series of an XT5, XT4 or XT-Enclave.  They don't have a CT6-V and don't seem to be talking about one, and if they wanted an Escalade-V they would have done it already.   Are they going to do a CT5-V and have 1 V-series product?  Seems like that is not worth the marketing dollars and development cost and CAFE gets way harder in 2020.

[smk4565]

17 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You think way to highly of the E Class considering that the CTS will still be there, just under a different that has been in the works for a while now. 

And im with Balth. The E63 would be $h! if it didn't have the CTS-V to benchmark. Fact. 

 

CT5 is going to be priced $35-45k, that is below the C-class, or at the C-class, depending on where they go.   The CT6 is the car priced against the E-class.  And the E55 was around before the CTS-V ever was, and they haven't had to look at what Cadillac is doing.  The E63 is plenty fast, probably the quickest in the segment, and it has the most luxurious interior by a country mile over the CTS, aging A6 and shoestring budget XFR and better than the 5-series never changing interior.

[balthazar]

• LaCrosse is a different brand & mission- these two aren't cross-shopped.
• Reuters merely stated what the current CT6 starts at ($55K), not that the price was decreasing any.
• V-Series isn't going anywhere and a CT6 variant is a natural given it's chassis.
• CT5 is unlikely to start south of $40K, but until we know at least some specs on the vehicle, blindly guessing is a waste of time.
• Most of the online publications are grouping the CT6 into the 7-series class, right or wrong.

[riviera74]

Whatever the sedan that replaces the ATS and CTS and XTS better be at least as good as the 5 series and/or the E-Class (and ideally better) at the same price point.  The CT6 and the XT5 and the Escalade cannot carry Cadillac alone.  No other luxury marque with any heritage is that small.  The fact that the XT5 will be joined by an XT4 next year is good news, but there needs to be one above the XT5 pronto. 

I suspect another reason the V-series may be extinct is not just CAFE, but also the sales of the V-series.  Those cars are so rare I wonder if it is actually worth continuing.

[balthazar]

• Cadillac is not a stand-alone brand like BMW & MB are- individual model sales performance is not in any way as significant. Escalade and XT5 aren't burdened with "carrying" the brand, which is supposedly highly profitable. If by "small" you mean number of sales- that's not the prime judging metric in the luxury segment.

• IF the V-Series runs counter to CAFE AND it's sales numbers are low, CAFE is of no issue. Remember; Cadillac does not have to meet CAFE targets on it's own.

• I will say I see numerous Vs are numerous different car-related public events (cruises & at the drag strip).

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• Cadillac is not a stand-alone brand like BMW & MB are- individual model sales performance is not in any way as significant. Escalade and XT5 aren't burdened with "carrying" the brand, which is supposedly highly profitable. If by "small" you mean number of sales- that's not the prime judging metric in the luxury segment.

• IF the V-Series runs counter to CAFE AND it's sales numbers are low, CAFE is of no issue. Remember; Cadillac does not have to meet CAFE targets on it's own.

• I will say I see numerous Vs are numerous different car-related public events (cruises & at the drag strip).

Here in Ohio I see the same thing in regards to the V.

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

CT5 is going to be priced $35-45k, that is below the C-class, or at the C-class, depending on where they go.   The CT6 is the car priced against the E-class.  And the E55 was around before the CTS-V ever was, and they haven't had to look at what Cadillac is doing.  The E63 is plenty fast, probably the quickest in the segment, and it has the most luxurious interior by a country mile over the CTS, aging A6 and shoestring budget XFR and better than the 5-series never changing interior.

E class is indeed an amazing car...I will give you that.

48 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• Camry sells a lot, relatively, but it's not a great car from a terrible company and it's off it's 2007 peak by a full 25% (2017 on pace for 352K vs. 473K).
• E63 had better benchmark the quickest & best handling sport sedan, not the #2 car.
• A4 is only 4 inches longer than the ATS- the CT5 is not going all the way down to the size of the ATS.
• CTS was an entry-level car in 2002, not in 2014. I could see it notching down a few thousand & adding content/features. Tho there'd be one plus IF the CT5 was A4-sized, it would mean anything smaller would be pointless- "no one is buying" the A3.

Camry off peak is loss of sedan sales in general. Also, if anything, Hyundai and Kia are picking up Toyota buyers, probably much more so than GM.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Who are you referring to? If this is somehow a reference to me, I stated that a new sedan and crossover would be debuting next year with the new design language. I assumed the model would be the ATS replacement and it happens to be an ATS/CTS replacement.

I assumed he was speaking of Cmicasa.

6 hours ago, FAPTurbo said:

can you be 'standard of the world' if your brand has fewer cars than there is continents?

Standard of the world is pushing it in any case. The world is moving on, and not just in terms of Cadillac.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I'm failing to see the problem here despite the usual naysayers trolling remarks. Basically the CTS becomes the CT5 and the ATS becomes the CT4. That's three different sedans plus a potential CT8 flagship model to go with the additional CUVs planned. This has been in the works for years. At least they are not pulling a Mercedes and putting out an even smaller FWD car (the A Class) to go underneath the already small FWD CLA. It will all be RWD like a luxury car is supposed to be. 

Quoted for truth.

[Croc]

Honestly, Cadillac sales will never be great until they start producing better interiors.  It's sad when I see a new Cadillac design I love, but then get inside at an auto show and the interior not only falls short of the competition, but doesn't even compare to what's offered over at Buick.

For the past 15 years Cadillac has failed to produce an interior that combines nice materials with nice design--either they spend $$$ on a cheap-looking design (XLR, for example) or they make a nice design with cheap-looking/feeling materials.  They gotta nail both.

And knock it off with killing knee room in wide sedans with intrusively wide center stacks that don't even feature much usable storage space.

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

• LaCrosse is a different brand & mission- these two aren't cross-shopped.
• Reuters merely stated what the current CT6 starts at ($55K), not that the price was decreasing any.
• V-Series isn't going anywhere and a CT6 variant is a natural given it's chassis.
• CT5 is unlikely to start south of $40K, but until we know at least some specs on the vehicle, blindly guessing is a waste of time.
• Most of the online publications are grouping the CT6 into the 7-series class, right or wrong.

Why bother arguing with someone who has the hypocrisy to call Cadillacs rebadged Equinoxes while his lord and savior rebadges a Nissan Frontier/Navara? It is just same old tired arguments with no original thought. 

 

His other post doesn't even merit a response. 

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

• LaCrosse is a different brand & mission- these two aren't cross-shopped.
• Reuters merely stated what the current CT6 starts at ($55K), not that the price was decreasing any.
• V-Series isn't going anywhere and a CT6 variant is a natural given it's chassis.
• CT5 is unlikely to start south of $40K, but until we know at least some specs on the vehicle, blindly guessing is a waste of time.
• Most of the online publications are grouping the CT6 into the 7-series class, right or wrong.

And given that the current CTS starts at $45K, a few grand drop would do it some good. It will not be anywhere near $35K when they have a CT4 planned, something a Benz troll clearly does not get. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

Johan said the CT5 will start between 35 and 45 thousand.  If there was no chance of it starting at 35k he would not have said that.  I am sure the product planners are still working on size, engines, interiors, etc and seeing where the market goes.  If you look at the 3-series segment though, the 3/4 series, C, A4, IS, ES, TSX, Q50,etc can all sell 2500 units a month, some of those are 5-7,000 a month.  When you jump to the E-class segment, there are only 2 cars that routinely are over 2,000 units a month.  There is no volume there.  Cadillac is going to go where volume is.

The 2006 CTS had more volume than CTS, ATS and XTS combined have now, and I am sure their bean counters see that and are thinking of going back to that formula.

[surreal1272]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Johan said the CT5 will start between 35 and 45 thousand.  If there was no chance of it starting at 35k he would not have said that.  I am sure the product planners are still working on size, engines, interiors, etc and seeing where the market goes.  If you look at the 3-series segment though, the 3/4 series, C, A4, IS, ES, TSX, Q50,etc can all sell 2500 units a month, some of those are 5-7,000 a month.  When you jump to the E-class segment, there are only 2 cars that routinely are over 2,000 units a month.  There is no volume there.  Cadillac is going to go where volume is.

The 2006 CTS had more volume than CTS, ATS and XTS combined have now, and I am sure their bean counters see that and are thinking of going back to that formula.

I don't care what he said. That's just a safe range for the sake of putting a number to it. It means nothing until the actual product is released. Mark my words. It will not start under $40K given current trends and the fact that a smaller CT4 will be slotted underneath. 

 

2006 was a totally different market back then and you know that so comparing that is just pointless. 

 

And again, Benz needs the volume whereas Cadillac does not for the most part. I'm not going to explain to you for the upteenth time why that is the case. 

[smk4565]

After watching the Tesla Model 3 release, they better start the CT5 at $35,000.  Elon delivered on what he said he would.

Another thing to consider is the crossover version is usually more than the sedan equivalent.  If an XT5 is $40k wouldn't surprise me if they make the CT5 less money because people expect to pay more for a crossover.  Pricing CT5 at $45k just puts it where the CTS is now and not selling.  if the CTS we know today was $36k base (and the ATS was not around) they would sell about 2500 a month which is the sales level you need in that segment.

Edited July 29, 2017 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

After watching the Tesla Model 3 release, they better start the CT5 at $35,000.  Elon delivered on what he said he would.

Another thing to consider is the crossover version is usually more than the sedan equivalent.  If an XT5 is $40k wouldn't surprise me if they make the CT5 less money because people expect to pay more for a crossover.  Pricing CT5 at $45k just puts it where the CTS is now and not selling.  if the CTS we know today was $36k base (and the ATS was not around) they would sell about 2500 a month which is the sales level you need in that segment.

Hence why I said $40K and not $45K. Furthermore, comparing it to an XT5 is pointless. The only common thing between the two is the number "5". They are two completely different platforms and again with the CT4 slotted beneath the CT5, it makes even less sense to start at $35K. Again, this is pretty much common sense to anyone who is not trolling just for the sake trolling. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Hence why I said $40K and not $45K. Furthermore, comparing it to an XT5 is pointless. The only common thing between the two is the number "5". They are two completely different platforms and again with the CT4 slotted beneath the CT5, it makes even less sense to start at $35K. Again, this is pretty much common sense to anyone who is not trolling just for the sake trolling. 

I know they have nothing in common as far as platform goes, but they are both the middle sedan and middle crossover.  They very well could price the CT5 at $40k and split the size and price of the current ATS and CTS.   That would probably make the C-class and Guilia the primary targets on price.  

The real question is how will the CT5 turn out?  I don't see how they build a better luxury car than the C-class or a better performance car than the Guilia, plus the Tesla Model 3 will be widely available in 2019.  If it was so easy for Cadillac to build the best in segment car I feel like they would have done it already.  The ATS and CTS were the best shot they took in decades and they both fell flat.

[surreal1272]

35 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I know they have nothing in common as far as platform goes, but they are both the middle sedan and middle crossover.  They very well could price the CT5 at $40k and split the size and price of the current ATS and CTS.   That would probably make the C-class and Guilia the primary targets on price.  

The real question is how will the CT5 turn out?  I don't see how they build a better luxury car than the C-class or a better performance car than the Guilia, plus the Tesla Model 3 will be widely available in 2019.  If it was so easy for Cadillac to build the best in segment car I feel like they would have done it already.  The ATS and CTS were the best shot they took in decades and they both fell flat.

You keep talking about needing a price gap between the sedan and CUV yet a MB CLA and GLA (platform mates btw) share the same entry price of just north of $32K. Point here is that you keep applying rules to everyone else that your own favorite brand doesn't even do. Sorry but that kills your entire argument about price structures. 

 

We wont even get too far into the Tesla and Alfa comparisons. Alfas are piles and the 3 clocks in at $60K with reasonable options, putting it way above the target price of the CT5. Furthermore, you are making yet another baseless assumption that it can't compete against a C Class. Until it comes out, your entire claim is just moot. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

You keep talking about needing a price gap between the sedan and CUV yet a MB CLA and GLA (platform mates btw) share the same entry price of just north of $32K. Point here is that you keep applying rules to everyone else that your own favorite brand doesn't even do. Sorry but that kills your entire argument about price structures. 

 

We wont even get too far into the Tesla and Alfa comparisons. Alfas are piles and the 3 clocks in at $60K with reasonable options, putting it way above the target price of the CT5. Furthermore, you are making yet another baseless assumption that it can't compete against a C Class. Until it comes out, your entire claim is just moot. 

I said most brands price their crossover higher than their similar size sedan.  And most buyers will pay more for the crossover.  Mercedes prices C-class and GLC, E-class and GLE very close together, it works for them.  Cadillac could price CT5 and XT5 the same, price CT6 and XT6 the same.  That is probably a good way for them to go.  The majority of brand don't do this, and they charge for a more for an RDX or MKC type small crossover than a mid-size sedan even.  

Cadillac should price CT5 and XT5 the same, but that isn't how GM usually operates.  So we'll see.

The Model 3 is $35,000.   $5,000 for the luxury package, $5,000 for auto pilot, $9,000 for the bigger battery and quicker acceleration and $1,000 for metallic paint.  That puts it at $55k.  Take away the battery pack upgrade and you are at $46k for a car with a 5.6 second 0-60 and loads of tech.   That is pretty impressive.  And it says Tesla on it, which makes people drool.  Tesla is the future, Cadillac is the past.  Hard to sell people the past.

[surreal1272]

41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I said most brands price their crossover higher than their similar size sedan.  And most buyers will pay more for the crossover.  Mercedes prices C-class and GLC, E-class and GLE very close together, it works for them.  Cadillac could price CT5 and XT5 the same, price CT6 and XT6 the same.  That is probably a good way for them to go.  The majority of brand don't do this, and they charge for a more for an RDX or MKC type small crossover than a mid-size sedan even.  

Cadillac should price CT5 and XT5 the same, but that isn't how GM usually operates.  So we'll see.

The Model 3 is $35,000.   $5,000 for the luxury package, $5,000 for auto pilot, $9,000 for the bigger battery and quicker acceleration and $1,000 for metallic paint.  That puts it at $55k.  Take away the battery pack upgrade and you are at $46k for a car with a 5.6 second 0-60 and loads of tech.   That is pretty impressive.  And it says Tesla on it, which makes people drool.  Tesla is the future, Cadillac is the past.  Hard to sell people the past.

If Tesla is the future and Cadillac is the past then you can add Mercedes to that past list as well (and no supposed upcoming EV vaporware doesn't count). Also, as much as I like the Tesla S, the 3 is fugly, options out at $59K (not much lower than a base S) and Tesla has yet to prove that they can back up this mass production claim of theirs. Sorry but Tesla is the wrong argument to use here. Furthermore, Cadillac does not need to price their sedans lower than their CUV counterparts just because you say they do. The fact that Benz gets away with identical pricing proves my point. 

[oldshurst442]

Is the CT8 a go?

I understood  there will ONLY be a CT5 and a CT6 along with an Audi A3 fighter which is the CT4.

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Not sure they need an A3 fighter...trying to be everything to everybody is what got 

GM in trouble in the first place.

[Robert Hall]

Wouldn't the CT4 or whatever it is called be the A4/3-series/C-class competitor, while the CT5 would be the A6/5-series/E-class competitor?  A3 is below that...

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Wouldn't the CT4 or whatever it is called be the A4/3-series/C-class competitor, while the CT5 would be the A6/5-series/E-class competitor?  A3 is below that...

As I understood it:

• Car to do battle with Audi A3 (no mention of name...we are all assuming it will be called the CT4)
• $35,000 - $45,000 bracket  to be called CT5 which replaces the ATS and the CTS (Im guessing tweener again exactly how 1st and 2nd generation  CTS was...)
• $45,000 and up to be called CT6 with a plethora of engine options. (XTS and this type up old fogey stigma FINALLY dies and the CT6 FINALLY takes over and the old fogeys could buy the CT6 with the less powerful engine option with the less sporty suspension package or a ΧΤ5 οr the Escalade ESV if they want to!!!)
• No mention of a CT8 top dog...so where does that leave the Escala concept? Does it morph into the top dog CT6 and we call it the day and just sell crossovers?
• XT4 crossover launched in 2018. Many other crossovers to come...

Edited July 30, 2017 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

If Tesla is the future and Cadillac is the past then you can add Mercedes to that past list as well (and no supposed upcoming EV vaporware doesn't count). Also, as much as I like the Tesla S, the 3 is fugly, options out at $59K (not much lower than a base S) and Tesla has yet to prove that they can back up this mass production claim of theirs. Sorry but Tesla is the wrong argument to use here. Furthermore, Cadillac does not need to price their sedans lower than their CUV counterparts just because you say they do. The fact that Benz gets away with identical pricing proves my point. 

First I said the CT5 will probably be priced lower than the XT5 because it is common for a sedan to cost less than the same size crossover. 

Then you said, CT5 will cost $40,000, same as an XT5.  

To which I said, I could see them doing that, and I agreed with you that CT5 and XT5 could cost the same because Mercedes uses this strategy.  I don't really care how they price the CT5, I was just predicting that they would go after those $35k sedans for sake of volume, and that is sort of where the CTS had success back in Gen 1.

Mercedes will have more EV's than Tesla by 2022.  Tesla is going to be strong player I think, but Mercedes has the manufacturing capability Tesla does not, and Mercedes can design and engineer cars.  They will be able to take the fight to Tesla too, the ones that need to worry are the Lincoln, Cadillac, Acuras of the world that don't have an EV coming soon, and the low volume guys like Jaguar and Alfa that can't afford another player coming into the segment to slice down the pie even more.

[smk4565]

40 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Wouldn't the CT4 or whatever it is called be the A4/3-series/C-class competitor, while the CT5 would be the A6/5-series/E-class competitor?  A3 is below that...

No because the CT5 will operate a price level below 5-series/E-class.   Cadillac has to give up this segment, the STS failed, the CTS failed, and the segment is shrinking, time to bail.  CT5 will be priced against the C-class, CT4 would be like $31k Audi A3 competitor.   According to what Johan has said.

I agree with OldsHurst's assessment. I think CT6 is the top sedan, it is full size sedan at German mid-size prizes and Cadillac will try to play up on that as a value, and appeal to those who just want a large car.   The Acura RL will probably drop out of the market along with the Infiniti Q70, so that could help the CT6, and I think they'll keep it low $50s base price so that is is attainable by those that had XTS or DTS in the past.