Peugeot Selected As Brand for PSA's Return to U.S.

[Drew Dowdell]

PSA has been mulling a return to the United states since at least 2014.  We reported in March of 2016 that DS was the most likely brand to mark the return of the French automaker to these shores. Now, PSA has made the announcement that Peugeot has been the brand selected, beating out Citroën, DS, and the recently acquired Opel brand.

Peugeot left the U.S. market in 1991 after selling only 4,292 vehicles the year prior. 

PSA will start in 15 U.S. states and 4 Canadian provinces that have a higher rate of import vehicle sales. 

The vehicles would be sourced from both Europe and China. 

No firm time frame has been announced for the arrival of Peugeot in the U.S., the company only states that it wants to have its vehicles here by 2026.

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[balthazar]

What a colossal waste of time.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What a colossal waste of time.

Why? At least it's better than the Chinese cars.  Peugeot has been building cars for a long time.

[balthazar]

Should have stuck to coffee mills.

Seriously, what does anyone expect them to bring to the market that's not already here 25 times over? Yet another plate of generic, plasticized, alpha-numeric FWD 4-cyl/ hybrid/ eventual EV sedans and CUVs? Isn't there already an oversaturation of CUVs and a increasingly rejected sedan pool? And it's not from India or China, so it'll be positioned upscale, price-wise. The '19 508 starts at $35K in the UK, the (0-60 in 8 seconds) GT starts at $48K. They'll be more here.

Who's been out there in the US market, wringing their hands/ praying on their knees that their sedan needs would ONLY be satisfied if peugeot was available??

Drew- do you in any way feel there's a shortage of brands/models on the USDM?

[David]

18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Should have stuck to coffee mills.

Seriously, what does anyone expect them to bring to the market that's not already here 25 times over? Yet another plate of generic, plasticized, alpha-numeric FWD 4-cyl/ hybrid/ eventual EV sedans and CUVs? Isn't there already an oversaturation of CUVs and a increasingly rejected sedan pool? And it's not from India or China, so it'll be positioned upscale, price-wise. The '19 508 starts at $35K in the UK, the (0-60 in 8 seconds) GT starts at $48K. They'll be more here.

Who's been out there in the US market, wringing their hands/ praying on their knees that their sedan needs would ONLY be satisfied if peugeot was available??

Drew- do you in any way feel there's a shortage of brands/models on the USDM?

I honestly agree with you. I get that the company is attempting to grow their business, but I think someone pulled the wool over the boards heads about the US potential.

I see nothing in the Peugeot stable that is going to be a game changer.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think that brands have become too big.... with only a few exceptions, not every brand needs to be a full range brand. I think we don't have enough brands, but the brands each have too many models.

Peugeot will likely just bring a few crossovers here to start. This is at least a 2 product cycle commitment for them to make it.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

PSA will start in 15 U.S. states and 4 Canadian provinces that have a higher rate of import vehicle sales.

Let me guess.  Quebec is one of those provinces?

Quebec does buy more small imported vehicles than any other province and the French population might adopt Peugeot as PSA is...from France.  It may be a cultural thing now that the Quebec people have slowly accepted their Frenchness as for the longest time, the French Canadian Quebecois hated France for ditching them in North America. 

Some cars and CUVs that they sell are attractive, but relying on one province to do you success in North America is foolish as I dont think the other 3 Canadian provinces and the 15 American states gives a shyte for French cars. 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by oldshurst442

[David]

I honestly question why does Quebec need to mirror France. The French that moved there wanted a clean start, better life. Stop trying to be France and be yourself as a Canadian that speaks french. If you love France so much, move there.

I agree with @oldshurst442 that I question just how much they will sell in any other province or state. 

Yes a few will sell to people who really want to be different, but I remember Peugeot and they were crap made auto's. I really question them even now coming back.

[Robert Hall]

I'm not sure what they can do to stand out in a crowded market.  Citroen or DS would have been a better choice for emphasizing the 'Frenchness'...Citroen today, though, doesn't have the weird factor that was their strength in the past.   Other than VW, there aren't any non-premium mainstream European brands in the US these days, so Peugeot could fit in that way, as an alternative to VW or the mainstream Korean and Japanese brands....but with what hook to make it stand out? 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

I honestly question why does Quebec need to mirror France. The French that moved there wanted a clean start, better life. Stop trying to be France and be yourself as a Canadian that speaks french. If you love France so much, move there.

I agree with @oldshurst442 that I question just how much they will sell in any other province or state. 

Yes a few will sell to people who really want to be different, but I remember Peugeot and they were crap made auto's. I really question them even now coming back.

Quebec has NEVER mirrored France. The people have NEVER wanted even to be, French...fromm France.

The people are very quite comfortable in being French Canadian with our, (yes, even I Im Greek, I see myself as a Quebecois) own French (Quebecois) culture that is...Canadian...

The love of hockey. Yes its a Canadian thing, but its a religion here.  The Quebecois were the first in North America to denounce religion...to distance religion from politics and public affairs. Therefore hockey remains the sole religion.

The French Canadians have adopted mainly American sports like baseball. Curling is not a thing in Quebec. Baseball is. Football too. Soccer aint a thing here. We follow it as there are many Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Irish, Mexican folk, but baseball, hockey, football (yes the NFL) still has a stronger following than soccer.

 As much as Montreal is very European in many regards, its American too.  But Montreal prides itself of being both. Quebec city prides itself being of French settlers, but its QUEBEC City...not a French from France city.

Quebec has always wanted to speak French...in THEIR province. Speak English but not to have the English dictate to them in THEIR province what to do...

France is nowhere mentioned in Quebec affairs.  While some France cultural aspects along with European ones are quite apparent in Quebec, like alcohol drinking at the age of 18 in bars or closing time for bars being 3:00 AM or sex not being such a taboo... prostitution not being frowned upon,  pimping yes, not prostitution per se...Quebec laws balance European way of life as much as North American...

And I could go on, but it is a car forum...

I just wanted to make that clear. That French Canadians LOVE being Canadian being French Canadian, in North American having their own little piece of Earth called Quebec. 

[ykX]

8 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I'm not sure what they can do to stand out in a crowded market.  Citroen or DS would have been a better choice for emphasizing the 'Frenchness'...Citroen today, though, doesn't have the weird factor that was their strength in the past.   Other than VW, there aren't any non-premium mainstream European brands in the US these days, so Peugeot could fit in that way, as an alternative to VW or the mainstream Korean and Japanese brands....but with what hook to make it stand out? 

I agree, DS or Citroen has some uniqueness and French quirkiness.  Peugeot not so much.  

I think they choose Renault because of it is alliance and some cross engineering with Nissan.  Maybe even Nissan dealers will be selling them.

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, ykX said:

I agree, DS or Citroen has some uniqueness and French quirkiness.  Peugeot not so much.  

I think they choose Renault because of it is alliance and some cross engineering with Nissan.  Maybe even Nissan dealers will be selling them.

???  Peugeot is a PSA brand, Renault is a Renault-Nissan brand.   Unrelated.  I don't think there has been any announcement about Renault returning to NA.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Robert Hall

[ykX]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

???  Peugeot is a PSA brand, Renault is a Renault-Nissan brand.   Unrelated.  I don't think there has been any announcement about Renault returning to NA.

Yes, you are correct, I got confused between the two

Edited February 26, 2019 by ykX

[smk4565]

What is better, Purgot or Citroen?  I think they’ll sell okay because people will want an import or something different.

[Frisky Dingo]

Foolish. This will inevitably turn out to be a wasted effort. It takes years and years to establish brand recognition and cachet, and therefore demand. And to build an effective dealer network. And they are mounting this undertaking at time while the car industry is more precarious than ever, and we are on the downside turn of the economy. Makes 0 sense.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think we don't have enough brands...

😯

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Other than VW, there aren't any non-premium mainstream European brands in the US these days, so Peugeot could fit in that way, as an alternative to VW or the mainstream Korean and Japanese brands....

Not at the price conversions I posted above. It'd fall against Audi, not VW. Who shopping in that price tier is going to look at peugeot??

I'd be surprised mightily if peugeot did any better here than fiat is floundering around at, volume-wise. It also has zero image/rep here- will take a decade to build anything up even IF they had the offerings to do so. They don't.

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

😯

Not at the price conversions I posted above. It'd fall against Audi, not VW. Who shopping in that price tier is going to look at peugeot?? 

Didn't see that post.  Doesn't sound encouraging for them. 

[Drew Dowdell]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What is better, Purgot or Citroen?  I think they’ll sell okay because people will want an import or something different.

Neither... DS is the best of the PSA lineup... it's premium Citroën... kinda like a Denali.

9 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Foolish. This will inevitably turn out to be a wasted effort. It takes years and years to establish brand recognition and cachet, and therefore demand. And to build an effective dealer network. And they are mounting this undertaking at time while the car industry is more precarious than ever, and we are on the downside turn of the economy. Makes 0 sense.

It really depends on what they bring over.  If they bring over the lower end of the Peugeot line, I don't see them taking hold unless they price them like Volkswagens. Priced right, I think they could take on VW and Mazda just fine.

There is also a report out today that PSA make a huge profit last year, including a profit on Opel.... something GM was never able to do, due to their crazy accounting habits.

[surreal1272]

I agree with @balthazar. What exactly is the point in an already flooded market full of boring rolling applicances? On top of that, it’s Peugeot, which has about a good a record of fond memories as Fiat did 30-40 years, which is next to zilch. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I agree with @balthazar. What exactly is the point in an already flooded market full of boring rolling applicances? On top of that, it’s Peugeot, which has about a good a record of fond memories as Fiat did 30-40 years, which is next to zilch. 

The difference between Fiat and Peugeot though is that Peugeot will be bringing much more mainstream and larger vehicles to the U.S.... I'm not sure Fiat is an apt comparison in this case.  It's probably going to be closer to Kia who led their entry in the US with a small SUV.

People in the U.S. don't want small cars... witness Fiat, Mini, Smart, and Scion.  It doesn't matter the origin of the brand.

[smk4565]

Will Peugeot be bringing this?  If so I am all for it.

[regfootball]

7 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

???  Peugeot is a PSA brand, Renault is a Renault-Nissan brand.   Unrelated.  I don't think there has been any announcement about Renault returning to NA.

WAIT?  PUEGUOT AND CITROEN? AND RENAULT TOO?

 

 

I actually thought the plan for PSA to come back to market was to feed the rental car market.

I agree, no one has been clamoring for any of these brands to come back.

Why not revive Saab and then bring Opel over too.

I suppose PSA may be pleased with fiat level sales.......

 

Hey maybe they should bring Opel here so they can sell this, since Buick won't

Edited February 27, 2019 by regfootball

[regfootball]

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The difference between Fiat and Peugeot though is that Peugeot will be bringing much more mainstream and larger vehicles to the U.S.... I'm not sure Fiat is an apt comparison in this case.  It's probably going to be closer to Kia who led their entry in the US with a small SUV.

People in the U.S. don't want small cars... witness Fiat, Mini, Smart, and Scion.  It doesn't matter the origin of the brand.

add Suzuki to that list too.  Too small!

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by regfootball

[oldshurst442]

Well...Buick is tippy toeing towards an end in North America. Because there is an over-saturation of brands here.

(How is it that Hyundai managed to create a lux brand and create several cars for it, and managed to get those models to sell at KIA as well, but GM cant seem to get Buick to sell and have Cadillac's target market on track in the same time frame that Hyundai decided to get their luxury brand online?)

Peugeot...

Well...they cant do any worse than Alpha Romeo and Fiat. Hell, they cant do any worse than Buick...

So yeah... on a different point of view that I had earlier...it DOES seem that Im telling you that there might be a chance... even if it IS a one in a million chance...

Against all odds, Genesis seems to be surviving somehow in North America. 

Acura and Infinity and Lexus replaced Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Mercury in that market place.

Hyundai and KIA seems to have replaced Saturn and Plymouth.

Genesis seems to be doing something....

I do NOT know what, but I do know that Buick aint too hot right about now...

Cadillac cars are struggling...Lincoln cars are struggling. Lincoln SUVs are OK...Cadillac SUVs are better than OK...

Acura is now stagnant...

BMW and Audi, Mercedes are doing better than OK...

Hey...maybe there is a slight chance of Peugeot making a dent here...who knows?

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The difference between Fiat and Peugeot though is that Peugeot will be bringing much more mainstream and larger vehicles to the U.S.... I'm not sure Fiat is an apt comparison in this case.  It's probably going to be closer to Kia who led their entry in the US with a small SUV.

People in the U.S. don't want small cars... witness Fiat, Mini, Smart, and Scion.  It doesn't matter the origin of the brand.

What I am talking about is the fact that both brands were flaming piles of garbage back then. Given that newer Fiats and Alfas haven’t done much to change that perception, I just don’t expect much from Peugeot. I remember an old neighbor of mine, back in early 80’s, who’s mother had one and that thing was always in the shop. While Peugeot may go the Kia route, its doesn’t mean that it is needed in this currently oversaturated market. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I just don’t see success here unless they pull a magical rabbit out their hat that no one expected. 

25 minutes ago, regfootball said:

WAIT?  PUEGUOT AND CITROEN? AND RENAULT TOO?

 

 

I actually thought the plan for PSA to come back to market was to feed the rental car market.

I agree, no one has been clamoring for any of these brands to come back.

Why not revive Saab and then bring Opel over too.

I suppose PSA may be pleased with fiat level sales.......

 

Hey maybe they should bring Opel here so they can sell this, since Buick won't

You mean the already sold here Regal Tour X? 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

What I am talking about is the fact that both brands were flaming piles of garbage back then. Given that newer Fiats and Alfas haven’t done much to change that perception, I just don’t expect much from Peugeot. I remember an old neighbor of mine, back in early 80’s, who’s mother had one and that thing was always in the shop. While Peugeot may go the Kia route, its doesn’t mean that it is needed in this currently oversaturated market. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I just don’t see success here unless they pull a magical rabbit out their hat that no one expected. 

We won't know for at least 15 years (another 5 to get to MY 2026 and then 10 years after that)

[surreal1272]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

We won't know for at least 15 years (another 5 to get to MY 2026 and then 10 years after that)

I think it’ll be quicker than that. Sure didn’t take long to figure out Fiats were still junk. Again though, I may be wrong here. Maybe Peugeot surprises me.

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I think it’ll be quicker than that. Sure didn’t take long to figure out Fiats were still junk. Again though, I may be wrong here. Maybe Peugeot surprises me.

Well, Peugeot has changed since those days. Peugeot has also gained a more upscale and sporty identity but retained a still affordable price. Think of what Oldsmobile could have been in the mid 2000s had GM not killed them off. Or a better managed Saturn brand as soon as Oldsmobile went away. Or even Buick just a few years back had Buick built on what the Verano and Encore established...

But the main thing is that their cars are no longer junk.  

Edited February 27, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

flaming piles of garbage

Yepper-doodle!!

[daves87rs]

Two facts:

1-The brand will fail here-AGAIN. They offer nothing of value..

2- Only success story you will see would be for the Chinese brands. Why? Because a car costs too much and these automakers can bring them cheaper.....

[balthazar]

Watched an Aussie review the 508, he was pronouncing it 'PEE-oh'.
Which surprised me; we always called them 'PIG-nots'.

The review, BTW, was by a guy wo openly said he was a "huge fan" of the brand, but even he struggled to overlook a number of strange anomolies, like the 8-spd under hard accel sits in the same gear you lifted up in. In other words, punching it for a few moments, pull off the gas, and it stayed in 3rd until he blipped the gas again.

187" overall length, 222 HP 1.6T 4-cyl, 8-spd auto, front wheel drive, 0-62 in 7.3 sec, GT trim... is expected to be $66,000. And you all were squawking about the Blazer RS!!

[Cmicasa the Great]

11 hours ago, regfootball said:

WAIT?  PUEGUOT AND CITROEN? AND RENAULT TOO?

 

 

I actually thought the plan for PSA to come back to market was to feed the rental car market.

I agree, no one has been clamoring for any of these brands to come back.

Why not revive Saab and then bring Opel over too.

I suppose PSA may be pleased with fiat level sales.......

 

Hey maybe they should bring Opel here so they can sell this, since Buick won't

If Buick starts selling it tomorrow.. I want your FIRM promise and check written to a Buick/GMC dealer by 12PM. Cause if U gonna make statements like this.. U should be able to back it up... come on.. COME ON!!!😎

Let U in on a secret.. 🤨

[regfootball]

29 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

If Buick starts selling it tomorrow.. I want your FIRM promise and check written to a Buick/GMC dealer by 12PM. Cause if U gonna make statements like this.. U should be able to back it up... come on.. COME ON!!!😎

Let U in on a secret.. 🤨

Well kinda looking at the tourx right now. But still have a few months left on current lease. Not that GM Isn’t sending pull ahead offers. Not sure yet if I can swing something that nice yet for a second car. 

[David]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Will Peugeot be bringing this?  If so I am all for it.

 Looks like a Camaro was breeded with a Miata and you ended up with this monster.  

That back end looks unfinished. Ya know like they were running low on funds and could not afford to finish up the rear.

Update, so that is the Peugeot e-Legend, their EV concept with self driving. Reminds me of one of GM's 2 person concept auto's they were considering at one time at least in the video on the web site here:

https://www.peugeot.de/marke-und-technologie/technologie.html

While some interesting EV technologies show, it is still UGLY!

[David]

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I think it’ll be quicker than that. Sure didn’t take long to figure out Fiats were still junk. Again though, I may be wrong here. Maybe Peugeot surprises me.

I have to figure that the amount of Socialist countries in Europe has to do with why people there accept the crap from Fiat, PSA, etc. 

I honestly just do not get why people like auto's like Peugeot and how crappy they are even now. The last few years traveling for work to Europe and looking at the various rental cars I have ended up in, I have not any faith it will change at all when they come here. 

Now it has been 2 years since I was in Europe as Dell Technology wants us to do Zoom meetings rather than in person even with customers, but I cannot imagine that PSA has changed their quality in the last 2 years from the garbage I saw just before that.

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

But the main thing is that their cars are no longer junk.  

So your saying in the last 2 years since I saw Peugeot in Europe they have turned around to have quality products? Sorry my friend but I have a hard time believing that the Lipstick on the pig fixed the quality issues of the stench.

[ykX]

53 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I have to figure that the amount of Socialist countries in Europe has to do with why people there accept the crap from Fiat, PSA, etc. 

I honestly just do not get why people like auto's like Peugeot and how crappy they are even now. The last few years traveling for work to Europe and looking at the various rental cars I have ended up in, I have not any faith it will change at all when they come here. 

Now it has been 2 years since I was in Europe as Dell Technology wants us to do Zoom meetings rather than in person even with customers, but I cannot imagine that PSA has changed their quality in the last 2 years from the garbage I saw just before that.

So your saying in the last 2 years since I saw Peugeot in Europe they have turned around to have quality products? Sorry my friend but I have a hard time believing that the Lipstick on the pig fixed the quality issues of the stench.

I don't know how good Peugeot right now, they never been a great quality cars, but they were never really bad either, considering their market (you can't judge European common cars with US standard). 

But maybe they are doing something right after all.  Opel/Vauxhall under PSA just made a profit after 20 years of losses under GM.  So maybe lousy socialist European company knows something General Motors doesn't.

 

[David]

3 minutes ago, ykX said:

I don't know how good Peugeot right now, they never been a great quality cars, but they were never really bad either, considering their market (you can't judge European common cars with US standard). 

But maybe they are doing something right after all.  Opel/Vauxhall under PSA just made a profit after 20 years of losses under GM.  So maybe lousy socialist European company knows something General Motors doesn't.

Or, GM executives used Opel to hid losses that causes GM to Bankrupt in the first place. GM has always had too many name plates. I honestly think PSA and a few other companies will end up in Bankruptcy also as they struggle with way to many name plates.

[ccap41]

There are always people looking for the new and different thing just to be different and as long as they make a good, quality product they will sell and word of mouth should get more sales from there. This is all relying on them making a good quality product. It won't hurt us to have more options so I don't see the issue. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

 Looks like a Camaro was breeded with a Miata and you ended up with this monster.  

That back end looks unfinished. Ya know like they were running low on funds and could not afford to finish up the rear.

Update, so that is the Peugeot e-Legend, their EV concept with self driving. Reminds me of one of GM's 2 person concept auto's they were considering at one time at least in the video on the web site here:

https://www.peugeot.de/marke-und-technologie/technologie.html

While some interesting EV technologies show, it is still UGLY!

100% This! That is simply hideous with a face only Ray Charles could love.

[David]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There are always people looking for the new and different thing just to be different and as long as they make a good, quality product they will sell and word of mouth should get more sales from there. This is all relying on them making a good quality product. It won't hurt us to have more options so I don't see the issue. 

I agree that it does not hurt to have more options, but their history carries a ton of baggage like Fiat and I would have to question if Fiat even makes a profit here with the ton of auto's sitting on their lots. 

This is more of those of us that have run our own businesses challenge their ability to actually make money and break even let alone a profit especially bringing in an auto line of product that the history has shown was garbage and some still see as garbage.

[balthazar]

32 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It won't hurt us to have more options so I don't see the issue. 

Define "us".

[ccap41]

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Define "us".

Consumers. 

[Drew Dowdell]

More competition should help with prices.  More choices are good even if we don't go for the new things.

Some people in here are really living in the past with regard to Peugeot's reliability.  I wouldn't base their current reliability on a vehicle that hasn't been in this market for 28 years anymore than I would judge Ford's current reliability on a 1990 Taurus.

[oldshurst442]

I did not know how to answer the reliability factor because my answer would have been anecdotal, just like the accusers, but I wanted a more concrete rebuttal. I was gong on pure hearsay on what I heard when I was in Greece this past summer regarding French cars in general and then I was going to post some European links regarding Peugeot's reliability record the last decade, and I did find some links to support my stance...but since I dont live in Europe and I wouldnt know how reliable those links really are...anyway...

Thanks Drew for the post above!  

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by oldshurst442

[David]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

More competition should help with prices.  More choices are good even if we don't go for the new things.

Some people in here are really living in the past with regard to Peugeot's reliability.  I wouldn't base their current reliability on a vehicle that hasn't been in this market for 28 years anymore than I would judge Ford's current reliability on a 1990 Taurus.

I can respect and understand that. Yet past and for me 2yr old experience is still showing that their 28 yrs last entry in the US has not really improved much. Yet that again is based on my last experience 2yrs ago.

[Drew Dowdell]

Again, none of these cars is even hitting our shores for another 6 years. That's an entire product cycle for even the stuff they sell today. 

[Robert Hall]

I could see them bringing the next generation of their crossovers, if crossovers are still a big deal in the US in 5+ years.   They have several now.

[Potluck]

It looks like a knock-off kia