Cadillac News: Cadillac CT4 Debuts May 30th

[Drew Dowdell]

Cadillac will be unveiling the Cadillac CT4 along with a V-series version on May 30th according to Motor1.

Both the CT4 and CT5 ride on a second generation Alpha platform called Alpha 2.  The CT5 is offered in rear-wheel drive with all-wheel drive being an option. It is highly likely that the CT4 will get this same offering. 

There is word that the V-series version of the Cadillac CT5 will also debut.  It is likely to pack the same 4.2-liter Blackwing V8 that is available in the CT6. The CT4 V-series is likely to get an uprated version of the 3.0TT.

While the CT5 is more of a fastback style, the spyshots of the CT4 shows a more conventional sedan profile and an Escala style grille similar to the CT5's.

The CT5 is likely to start in the high mid-$30k range while the CT4 will be aimed more at entry-level luxury buyers. 

View full article

[Paolino]

So, what is this considered, an ATS replacement?

[smk4565]

I like that they are showing the V-series right away.  The last go around the V-series cars came about 2 years after the standard model and I complained about that.  Much better to get them on out there sooner rather than miss 2 years of sales opportunity on a high margin product.

[David]

Interesting side profile comparison of the CT4 top to the CT5 below.

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Interesting side profile comparison of the CT4 top to the CT5 below.

 

Looks like more front overhang, similar slope to back window.  Will be interesting to see what the C-pillar trim looks like...;)

46 minutes ago, Paolino said:

So, what is this considered, an ATS replacement?

Yep.

[surreal1272]

So what will GM say about where the CT5 fits in? They claim it’s a 3 Series/C Class competitor while being larger than both when I think most people knew that there was a CT4 for the smaller size. Just weird for them to market it that way when this was clearly in the works and seems like the more natural competitor to the Germans. 

 

And I realize that some pics can play tricks on the eyes but why does the CT4 appear to be longer than the CT5? (Note the difference in length from the front wheels to the nose)

Edited May 15, 2019 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

^ Just looked over the complete CT5 introduction press release, didn't mention any competitive models.  And there's no advertising out for it yet...

[smk4565]

Let’s just complain about the CT4’s trunk space now to get it over with.

[Matt 967]

Interesting to see both in person someday. Still not impressed the the names at all. At least ATS and CTS were different. I do not like the CT and XT names at all. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Matt 967

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Just looked over the complete CT5 introduction press release, didn't mention any competitive models.  And there's no advertising out for it yet...

From the C&G article a few weeks back (and why I asked). 

 

“Rumors have it that the CT5 will start in the mid-30s and Cadillac is insisting that, despite its size, the CT5 is aligned against the 3-series and C-Class. But in doing so, where does that leave the car?”

 

Basically I’m asking if this rumor has been confirmed because it has not been answered all this time. The introduction of the CT4 seems to squash the rumor but I was just asking for a little official clarification here. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

OK, but ‘rumor’ is not ‘Cadillac marketing’. Have to wait & see.

[oldshurst442]

I heard a rumour, that you have a broken heart.  Now it seems they're telling me you've changed your wicked ways. 

Rumour has it.  That she is half your age.  But Im guessing that's the reason that you stayed.  Ive heard, that youve been missing me....

Heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another, you've been messin around...

I dont believe it. Not for a minute.  

I know you know we've had some good times. Now they have their own hiding place.  Well, I can promise you tomorrow, but I cant buy back yesterday.  

Ill be there for you, these 5 words I swear to you. When you breathe, I want to be the air for you. Ill be there for you! 

 

This post was brought to you by Bananarama, Adele, REO Speedwagon and Bon Jovi.

And if you frown upon it because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I tied it all up with the "rumour" connection and at least there is a very weak automotive connection to it...so...there! 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Per the profile spy shot, I do prefer the CT4's 14 inch wheel size, will be cheaper to replace the tires.  Info states CT4 will have a more conventional sedan profile v. the fastback CT5.  Maybe we can look forward to a cavernous 12.5 cu ft trunk, despite its smaller size.  This would mean Cadillac is serious about fighting the CUV onslaught, by making their sedans uber-practical.

[surreal1272]

50 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OK, but ‘rumor’ is not ‘Cadillac marketing’. Have to wait & see.

Technically you are correct. I should have led with "potentially marketing" the CT5 but I figured most here got the reference since it was just discussed a few weeks ago in another article. Didn't know semantics were going to be used against me lol.

[Paolino]

I hope it's the camo, because that front overhang could give a Buick Century a run for its money.

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, Paolino said:

I hope it's the camo, because that front overhang could give a Buick Century a run for its money.

Or a 3rd gen Trans Am

 

Come to think of it...a 2nd gen Trans Am too

Those are not all nice and tucked in ...

The CT5's area right in front of that front tire forward, now that Im looking at it more and more...looks kinda squished...with no personality to boot....

Yeah...I like me some front overhang....

 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

CT4 is a mistake.
Should have stopped at CT5.

[oldshurst442]

^^^ That above I agree to 10000000000%

 

[daves87rs]

Why 3 sedans? Why waste the money?????

Save the money, give us a proper Caddy sedan that is affordable but badass, and maybe throw a wagon in for those who still like those.....

This is still OLD GM think.........

[Paolino]

11 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Why 3 sedans? Why waste the money?????

Save the money, give us a proper Caddy sedan that is affordable but badass, and maybe throw a wagon in for those who still like those..... 

This is still OLD GM think.........

Just because they shut down plants saying no one is buying sedans and the majority want crossovers and SUVs and got rid of two cars I would love to own doesn't mean this is a mis... oh... I see what you mean.

[smk4565]

I don't think 3 sedans is too much, but in today's market you could make a good argument that 2 sedans is enough for Cadillac.  The question is how many more crossovers are they making?  It isn't uncommon now to see 6 or 7 SUVs in a brand now.

[oldshurst442]

22 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Why 3 sedans? Why waste the money?????

Save the money, give us a proper Caddy sedan that is affordable but badass, and maybe throw a wagon in for those who still like those.....

This is still OLD GM think.........

I like your thinking all but for one thing.

Im for a proper Caddy.

Im for a badass Caddy.

Im for a wagon Caddy. Maybe. (its that CUV/SUV thing that is going on in the market place that puts a damper on that idea)

But I definitely DO NOT want an affordable Caddy...

[daves87rs]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I like your thinking all but for one thing.

Im for a proper Caddy.

Im for a badass Caddy.

Im for a wagon Caddy. Maybe. (its that CUV/SUV thing that is going on in the market place that puts a damper on that idea)

But I definitely DO NOT want an affordable Caddy...

Well, with the Craze of the CUV/SUV, the sedan needs to offer something to the buying public- Value! It also makes a nice step up into the “family” trucklets that people will feel better paying a few bucks more for.

It’s time to dump the benchmark, and just change the game.......

[David]

4 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...I like me some front overhang....

Totally agree, those wheels out to the corner like that is gonna be expensive to fix when damage happens as nothing on the front to absorb the impact. OUCH.

[ccap41]

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Totally agree, those wheels out to the corner like that is gonna be expensive to fix when damage happens as nothing on the front to absorb the impact. OUCH.

3 inches of air or plastic won't have any effect on repairing an impact. 

[riviera74]

OK Why does Cadillac need near-luxury buyers when GM just shut down an entire plant that made a near-luxury sedan?

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

3 inches of air or plastic won't have any effect on repairing an impact. 

True, but then I am thinking more old school of the way auto's used to have that 15 to 18 inches of crumple zone before the wheels and with a steel bumper that had 5 mph absorbers on them. These all plastic noses with only 2-3 inches before hitting the suspension and wheels while is engineered to absorb the impact, also becomes more expensive to repair.

19 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

OK Why does Cadillac need near-luxury buyers when GM just shut down an entire plant that made a near-luxury sedan?

They DO NOT, CT4 is a mistake, GM has Buick for near-luxury buyers. Cadillac should only be ubber luxury.

[Robert Hall]

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

True, but then I am thinking more old school of the way auto's used to have that 15 to 18 inches of crumple zone before the wheels and with a steel bumper that had 5 mph absorbers on them. These all plastic noses with only 2-3 inches before hitting the suspension and wheels while is engineered to absorb the impact, also becomes more expensive to repair. 

Remember, there is a steel bumper bar and crash structure behind the plastic fascia..  and if the crash is hard to enough to get to the wheels and suspension, it's probably a total...

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

True, but then I am thinking more old school of the way auto's used to have that 15 to 18 inches of crumple zone before the wheels and with a steel bumper that had 5 mph absorbers on them. These all plastic noses with only 2-3 inches before hitting the suspension and wheels while is engineered to absorb the impact, also becomes more expensive to repair.

And yet the autos of today are leaps and bounds safer than those steel bumpers and 15-18 inches of "crumple zones". If they were truly crumple zones, they wouldn't have been as unsafe as they were. 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

They DO NOT, CT4 is a mistake, GM has Buick for near-luxury buyers. Cadillac should only be ubber luxury.

I could see that argument and making Cadillac up at Maserati or Porsche level pricing.  However every past attempt of Cadillac to go up market since the Allante failed.  The uber lux crowd isn’t buying Cadillacs but the Buick-GMC crowd will and if GM can suck an extra $1,000 of profit out of someone because they bought an XT4 vs a Terrain then GM has a duty to their shareholders to do just that.

[David]

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I could see that argument and making Cadillac up at Maserati or Porsche level pricing.  However every past attempt of Cadillac to go up market since the Allante failed.  The uber lux crowd isn’t buying Cadillacs but the Buick-GMC crowd will and if GM can suck an extra $1,000 of profit out of someone because they bought an XT4 vs a Terrain then GM has a duty to their shareholders to do just that.

GM Needs to throw the baby out with the bath water at this point as their marketing sucks, upper executives are clearly not getting that you DO NOT need divisions overlapping each other. Will take a clean break to change the mentality and Johan was NOT it as he just wanted to be a German Sucking follower rather than truly lead Cadillac and optimize their past for future benefit.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I could see that argument and making Cadillac up at Maserati or Porsche level pricing.  However every past attempt of Cadillac to go up market since the Allante failed.  The uber lux crowd isn’t buying Cadillacs but the Buick-GMC crowd will and if GM can suck an extra $1,000 of profit out of someone because they bought an XT4 vs a Terrain then GM has a duty to their shareholders to do just that.

Every attempt? The Escalade and V-Series Caddies beg to differ on that. Crappy marketing has killed Cadillacs uber ambitions more than the actual product. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

However every past attempt of Cadillac to go up market since the Allante failed.

Cadillac's pricing has gone up year over year for years. It's eclipsed every other volume brand except MB. It certainly hasn't "failed".

[riviera74]

Maybe Mary Barra can just fire all the marketers in GM and outsource it to those who know what they are doing.  Cadillac would be a great place to start that revolution.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Maybe Mary Barra can just fire all the marketers in GM and outsource it to those who know what they are doing.  Cadillac would be a great place to start that revolution.

Peter DeLorenzo keeps on saying on his Autoextremist website that Mary Barra and Dan Ammann  do NOT believe in hiring a marketing company to do the marketing campaigns on their automotive brands.  And if I understood DeLorenzo correctly, its like Barra also limits GM's budget for marketing and its done in-house with Barra and Ammann in charge. 

Obviously Ammann is no longer a big wig with GM's automotive operations any more, but in charge of the autonomous driving section of GM's operations, but Barrra is still not into marketing  her products properly....

But yeah...

Cadillac needs some sort of identity marketing to get the excitement for the brand going...

To get the message of pride for owning and driving a Cadillac...

[oldshurst442]

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

They DO NOT, CT4 is a mistake, GM has Buick for near-luxury buyers. Cadillac should only be ubber luxury.

 

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I could see that argument and making Cadillac up at Maserati or Porsche level pricing.

Ive had this stance now for the last year or so.  And I think Cadillac has got the right engineering, quality, luxury to pull it off as of NOW!

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

However every past attempt of Cadillac to go up market since the Allante failed.  The uber lux crowd isn’t buying Cadillacs

That was then...and the ONLY reason why the uber lux crowd aint buying stuff from Cadillac in that price range...

well there are at least 2 reasons:

1. There are virtually NO products in this price range that Cadillac offers for the uber lux crowd to buy. The Escalade is the sole vehicle that uber lux folk are buying.

2. There is NO marketing to instill pride in the brand.  No information to let people know why they should buy Cadillac. The V Series stuff. There is NO marketing for people to be excited about a V Series Cadillac.

 

The reasons why I say that folk WILL flock to buy uber lux stuff from Cadillac:

1. The concepts  Ciel, Cien, El Miraj, Escala all have garnered a fair amount of buzz and noise. But no such product was and is available for an eventual sale down the line.  

2. The Blackwing V8 CT6 sold out. And THAT is with the CT6  supposedly not being on the same level, as some say, as a Bimmer or Audi or Mercedes. And the Blackwing V8 CT6 is in the uber luxury price world. Granted, not too many units were available for sale, but its not as if the Blackwing V8 CT6 was advertised...and was outsold as soon as it was made available for sale and if Im not mistaken, the Blackwing V8 CT6 is still not produced to be delivered...   That kinda reminds me of a certain product zealousness on par with...Tesla... 

3. The CT6 was on the chopping block for awhile. But...there is a strong demand for the CT6, so GM/Cadillac is finally NOT cancelling it...   Not too bad for a halo car that is NOT a halo car and  supposedly a real halo car is still in the works...

4. Despite all the times we heard Cadillac say that this is the generation to turn things around...and Cadillac does not...and they take 2 steps forward and 1 step back...despite all that...Cadillac HAS raised its prices and Cadillac is actually rolling metal out of their NORTH AMERICAN dealerships....   Yes...not ATS and CTS vehicles...but their SUVs...and the CT6 has got a strong following. 

5. Going back to the El Miraj and Ciel and Escala...

The ATS and CTS are not selling the way they should, but the ATS and the CTS are NOT even remotely close to what folk actually want from Cadillac...which is Ciel, El Miraj and Escala...

The one vehicle that people envision Cadillac to be that Cadillac actually builds...is the Escalade, andTHAT Cadillac has no trouble finding clients...

Sometimes...pricing yourself too low and putting yourself too low in the market place does NOT give you the volume you want and crave. Sometimes, the image people want from you, is to be exclusive, and sometimes pricing yourself high and out of range for most folk WILL get you the volume you want and crave...from the people that actually COULD afford your cars...

Because...the people that WANT a Cadillac will NOT buy a Cadillac simply because Cadillac is NOT stuffy enough.

Those people, want EXCLUSIVITY....and are probably bored with BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Jag...and those people are waiting for Cadillac to actually really become exclusive...

And yes...of course with the right engineered and quality worthy of the price, product. 

And Cadillac HAS that engineering and quality as of NOW...in 2019...

What they do NOT have is the marketing...and product...to sell to those folk...

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by oldshurst442

[regfootball]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:00 PM, ocnblu said:

Per the profile spy shot, I do prefer the CT4's 14 inch wheel size, will be cheaper to replace the tires.  Info states CT4 will have a more conventional sedan profile v. the fastback CT5.  Maybe we can look forward to a cavernous 12.5 cu ft trunk, despite its smaller size.  This would mean Cadillac is serious about fighting the CUV onslaught, by making their sedans uber-practical.

bets on whether the CT4 trunk is bigger than the CT5's....

good CT4 spy shots here

https://www.motor1.com/photo/3808660/2020-cadillac-ct4-spy-photo/

Edited May 17, 2019 by regfootball

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Every attempt? The Escalade and V-Series Caddies beg to differ on that. Crappy marketing has killed Cadillacs uber ambitions more than the actual product. 

The Escalade has done well for sure.  But there are also more expensive SUVs out there, but Cadillac has pushed Escalade up into that $85-100k range which is job well done by them.

CTS-V still sells at a big discount compared to rivals, and now it is gone anyway.   Allante, ELR, XLR, XLR-V, STS-V all went bust for one reason or another.  CT6 could get the ax too, that has been rumored, so we'll see how that plays out.  Even when CTS has gone up in price over the years sales dropped every generation but trying to have a vehicle switch segments was also a bad idea from the start by the marketing folks.

[surreal1272]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Escalade has done well for sure.  But there are also more expensive SUVs out there, but Cadillac has pushed Escalade up into that $85-100k range which is job well done by them.

CTS-V still sells at a big discount compared to rivals, and now it is gone anyway.   Allante, ELR, XLR, XLR-V, STS-V all went bust for one reason or another.  CT6 could get the ax too, that has been rumored, so we'll see how that plays out.  Even when CTS has gone up in price over the years sales dropped every generation but trying to have a vehicle switch segments was also a bad idea from the start by the marketing folks.

Sales have dropped in all high performance segments for almost all brands so to act like this was a Cadillac only issue is just ignorant to the facts. And again, it’s shortcomings were marketing related and had not one thing to do with the cars themselves. This is has already been pointed out. It should be noted that every Cadillac you pointed out were pre-bankruptcy models save for the ELR. The V-Series models have done well considering the changing marketplace and the Slade has routinely beat the German competition in sales while most of them cost north of $100K. 

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

That was then...and the ONLY reason why the uber lux crowd aint buying stuff from Cadillac in that price range...

well there are at least 2 reasons:

1. There are virtually NO products in this price range that Cadillac offers for the uber lux crowd to buy. The Escalade is the sole vehicle that uber lux folk are buying.

2. There is NO marketing to instill pride in the brand.  No information to let people know why they should buy Cadillac. The V Series stuff. There is NO marketing for people to be excited about a V Series Cadillac.

 

2. The Blackwing V8 CT6 sold out. And THAT is with the CT6  supposedly not being on the same level, as some say, as a Bimmer or Audi or Mercedes. And the Blackwing V8 CT6 is in the uber luxury price world. Granted, not too many units were available for sale, but its not as if the Blackwing V8 CT6 was advertised...and was outsold as soon as it was made available for sale and if Im not mistaken, the Blackwing V8 CT6 is still not produced to be delivered...   That kinda reminds me of a certain product zealousness on par with...Tesla... 

 

 

For the first 2 reasons, that is a problem with Cadillac management that has existed for 25 or 30 years.  They don't have the products and they don't have the marketing.  They thought Johan was the guy to change that, he didn't, then they tossed him aside too.  I don't know who at GM has the magic switch to throw Cadillac back in gear.  Cadillac is like the automotive equivalent of the New York Jets or New York Knicks, new management every 3 years, same result.

As far as the CT6 Blackwing, they have a really low number of those, and they are priced like an S450, so I wouldn't say the CT6 is pushing things up market  If the Blackwing was $150k and sold out then that is another story.

[smk4565]

11 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Sales have dropped in all high performance segments for almost all brands so to act like this was a Cadillac only issue is just ignorant to the facts. And again, it’s shortcomings were marketing related and had not one thing to do with the cars themselves. This is has already been pointed out. It should be noted that every Cadillac you pointed out were pre-bankruptcy models save for the ELR. The V-Series models have done well considering the changing marketplace and the Slade has routinely beat the German competition in sales while most of them cost north of $100K. 

I think the GLS and X7 will both outsell the Escalade in 2020, X7 will probably beat it this year.  GLS has no production right now with the model change, unless that new one goes gangbusters when it comes out.

I still think Cadillac needs something above the Escalade, but the problem with GM is they do this thing where Corvette = best performance car in GM, Escalade = most expensive most luxurious car at GM, etc.  So even if Cadillac could benefit from a sports car above the Corvette, they can't let that happen because Chevy dealers will be mad.  Even if there are a dozen SUVs more luxurious than the Escalade, Cadillac can't change anything because they have to tie the Escalade to the Tahoe which is a $50k product.  GM can't get out of their own way.  

 

[oldshurst442]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

For the first 2 reasons, that is a problem with Cadillac management that has existed for 25 or 30 years.  They don't have the products and they don't have the marketing.  They thought Johan was the guy to change that, he didn't, then they tossed him aside too.  I don't know who at GM has the magic switch to throw Cadillac back in gear.  Cadillac is like the automotive equivalent of the New York Jets or New York Knicks, new management every 3 years, same result.

As far as the CT6 Blackwing, they have a really low number of those, and they are priced like an S450, so I wouldn't say the CT6 is pushing things up market  If the Blackwing was $150k and sold out then that is another story.

 

Yes...we've discussed this before...about product....

But 25-30 years ago...there was virtually no Cadillac with an equaivalent starting price of $75 000 and ending at $100 000 either like the Escalade, or CT6....or CTS V

Yes...15 or so years ago, there was an attempt to do a roadster with a high price tag and it failed...but it failed because the product was not up to Cadillac standards.  Cadillac has since corrected that. 

The Allante also failed, for the same reasons,  but it didnt have a upper echelon price tag either...it was expensive, but it wasnt in the higher echelon. It was near it, but not at it...

Cadillac has made some strides...in this price realm and has succeeded to a degree.  The CTS-V has failed in the market place because of a lack of marketing vision. NOT because its a lackluster product like the ELR and the Allante were before it.

The Blackwing V8 CT6...or CT6-V....STARTS at $89 000...

The Blackwing V8 CT6...or CT6-V....STARTS at $89 000...

To put THAT into perspective...the Escalade Premium Luxury which is the 3rd highest trim level...is at 86 000.]

The top of the line Escalade, the Platinum is at 96 000. 

The CT6-V...is in uber luxury territory as Im assuming...all 275 examples that people gobbled up as soon as it came up to be ordered, Im assuming those owners, loaded up their rides to the nines with every possible option Cadillac has to offer for it...and Im assuming that the price tag for all 275 CT5-Vs reached and surpassed 100 000 EASILY...while NOT the 150 000 YOU are clamoring for...but pretty darned impressive as the CT6 is not even considered a halo car. Not by car magazines, not by Eurosnob detractors and even Cadillac CEOs themselves...

So...for a CT6, that is supposedly not on par with Germany's best in terms of quality of luxury and technology and the like, that it could get 275 units sold, instantly, with a price tag north of 100 000. 

You could analyze this scenario in different ways...but in reality...a CT6 that was supposedly a failure in the market place because supposedly its a vehicle that is compromised by Cadillac's legacy of 2 steps forward and 1 step back...it manages to stick around because who knew that all folk really want from Cadillac is a big Cadillac car with a big V8 under the hood...that has a big price tag? 

 

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think the GLS and X7 will both outsell the Escalade in 2020,

No they wont...

Those SUVs have no mojo.

No style.

No gotta have it factor.

even if there is a 3 pointed star up front on one of them.

The other one comes from a brand that is following in Cadillac's marketing footsteps of the 1980s and 1990s....

[oldshurst442]

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

but the problem with GM is they do this thing where Corvette = best performance car in GM, Escalade = most expensive most luxurious car at GM, etc.  So even if Cadillac could benefit from a sports car above the Corvette, they can't let that happen because Chevy dealers will be mad.

Corvette was, is and will forever BE GM's halo sports car...and it will forever BE a Chevrolet or tied to the Chevrolet brand. 

Chevrolet, especially when Pontiac and Oldsmobile are no longer around, Chevrolet IS GM's performance brand and THAT is where the Corvette belongs...

The only other direction the Corvette could go, is on its own, but with strong ties to...Chevrolet.

NO...

Cadillac does NOT NEED a sports car. Their market does not even ask for a sports car. At most...maybe...a GT car. 

But even before a  2 door coupe GT car, like a Bentley GT, Cadillac would benefit more through a personal luxury vehicle, and it not even need be a coupe...

The window for an El Miraj/El Dorado type of personal luxury car closed about two years ago. The market shifted greatly from that.

They DO need a halo vehicle though that signifies narcissistic, arrogant, excess, wasteful opulence...

But a Lamborghini, Ferrari, Corvette, Pagani sports car ride is not it.

A Cadillac Ciel sedan hardtop and/or 4 door convertible is THAT vehicle.  

Proof:

The longest car Cadillac has in its stable...a CT6 V Blackwing 550 horsepower/627 ft.lbs torque Twin Turbocharged V8 sold out all 275 units instantly as soon as it was available for sale....making Cadillac think twice in canceling the CT6...plus...raising the price tag for it for the second batch by 4000 or 5000 bucks and people still bought it to reach 275...

Cadillac cars...people do NOT want small, eurocentric Cadillac cars.

The Allante did not sell. The ELR did not sell. The ATS did not sell.

The Escalde sells. The XTS sells. Low and behold, the CT6 is starting to sell...

People want big Cadillacs that cost a lot of dough....

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

@smk4565

PS:

In 2021, the new Escalade is to arrive.  I know why you mentioned 2020, is because you think the old Escalade will be eclipsed by the new for 2019 0r 2020 GLC and X7...

But even then, I dont see it happening.

Like I said...

No mojo, no style, no gotta have it factor.

Very generic. Very Japanesee... Infiniti...YIKES!!!

 

Double yikes...very Lexusey also...

 

Not a very unique, gotta have it Mercedes there, buddy! To boot, those fullsized Japanese SUVs are both styled a decade ago...and they dont even remotely come close in outselling the 'Slade...

The BMW X7?

Yeah...I dont think it will outsell the Navigator let alone the Escalade...

In fact, I dont think Mercedes outsells the Navigator either...

 

 

[David]

 

 This is going to give the Germans a run for their money as well as the Americans I believe.

[ocnblu]

Wow, that new Mercedes is like a half-used bar of sandalwood-scented soap dropped in the gym shower by a hipster with zero hair on his body except for his massive, perfectly-coifed beard infused with glitter.

[trinacriabob]

@ocnblu  Nice try.  The word "coiffed" has 2 f's.

Regarding the car, it's a nice try.  It is sort of boring.  Maybe it won't be boring to drive.  A proportionately long wheelbase is often a good thing to have for ride quality.

As has already been mentioned, the front overhang, or lack of it, could be a problem.  In terms of the side/rear, I do not like that kink in the belt line where it meets the C-pillar and the heavy handed chrome there.  I'd like to see what this car looks like in rear 3/4 view before judging it more firmly.  I'm all for people scooping up Cadillacs.  I'm not one of their customers.  Buick has failed me and others by not offering a new Verano.  The dealers have told me this ... that people are asking for it.

[riviera74]

People want to buy a Buick Verano?  I know Buick is essentially a CUV brand these days, but I never saw a market for the Verano.  The 2nd Gen LaCrosse maybe, but not the Verano (or the Cascada for that matter).

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Corvette was, is and will forever BE GM's halo sports car...and it will forever BE a Chevrolet or tied to the Chevrolet brand. 

Chevrolet, especially when Pontiac and Oldsmobile are no longer around, Chevrolet IS GM's performance brand and THAT is where the Corvette belongs...

The only other direction the Corvette could go, is on its own, but with strong ties to...Chevrolet.

NO...

Cadillac does NOT NEED a sports car. Their market does not even ask for a sports car. At most...maybe...a GT car. 

But even before a  2 door coupe GT car, like a Bentley GT, Cadillac would benefit more through a personal luxury vehicle, and it not even need be a coupe...

The window for an El Miraj/El Dorado type of personal luxury car closed about two years ago. The market shifted greatly from that.

They DO need a halo vehicle though that signifies narcissistic, arrogant, excess, wasteful opulence...

But a Lamborghini, Ferrari, Corvette, Pagani sports car ride is not it.

A Cadillac Ciel sedan hardtop and/or 4 door convertible is THAT vehicle.  

Proof:

The longest car Cadillac has in its stable...a CT6 V Blackwing 550 horsepower/627 ft.lbs torque Twin Turbocharged V8 sold out all 275 units instantly as soon as it was available for sale....making Cadillac think twice in canceling the CT6...plus...raising the price tag for it for the second batch by 4000 or 5000 bucks and people still bought it to reach 275...

Cadillac cars...people do NOT want small, eurocentric Cadillac cars.

The Allante did not sell. The ELR did not sell. The ATS did not sell.

The Escalde sells. The XTS sells. Low and behold, the CT6 is starting to sell...

People want big Cadillacs that cost a lot of dough....

 

 

Why bother with him honestly. He just contradicts himself. He knows sportcars are niche and not a good investment but bemoans Cadillac for not having one. He should be embarrassed that the CHEVY runs circles around most of the Germans and that it takes $300K (give or take ten grand) to compete with the $100K Chevy. Oh and he’s been making the GLS claim for years now (maybe with different letters because Benz changes them every three years lol) and yet the Slade, with its “Chevy” bones, continues to thrive in the Luxo SUV market. 

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Yes...we've discussed this before...about product....

But 25-30 years ago...there was virtually no Cadillac with an equaivalent starting price of $75 000 and ending at $100 000 either like the Escalade, or CT6....or CTS V

Yes...15 or so years ago, there was an attempt to do a roadster with a high price tag and it failed...but it failed because the product was not up to Cadillac standards.  Cadillac has since corrected that. 

The Allante also failed, for the same reasons,  but it didnt have a upper echelon price tag either...it was expensive, but it wasnt in the higher echelon. It was near it, but not at it...

Cadillac has made some strides...in this price realm and has succeeded to a degree.  The CTS-V has failed in the market place because of a lack of marketing vision. NOT because its a lackluster product like the ELR and the Allante were before it.

The Blackwing V8 CT6...or CT6-V....STARTS at $89 000...

The Blackwing V8 CT6...or CT6-V....STARTS at $89 000...

To put THAT into perspective...the Escalade Premium Luxury which is the 3rd highest trim level...is at 86 000.]

The top of the line Escalade, the Platinum is at 96 000. 

The CT6-V...is in uber luxury territory as Im assuming...all 275 examples that people gobbled up as soon as it came up to be ordered

Mercedes sold out 275 copies of a $2.6 million car right away, anyone can sell out such a small number.

The 1992 Allante in today’s money would cost $116,000 and the 1999 Seville STS loaded is $82k in today’s money.  The Allante is still the most expensive Cadillac in comparison to the market and inflation.  Cadillac prices have just moved with inflation, they haven’t really gone up market.