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InvictaMan

More Pics on 2010 Model

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Apparently, whoever did the camo job on the front end is an Olds fan.

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Body looks very Malibu like, with 5-series wannabe tail lights.

I don't mind that though, because I see Buick's future as making a fancy version of the Cruze, Malibu, with the Enclave and Zeta sedan, and a fancy Vue/Equinox if GMC doesn't get one. This will let Buick operate in the $26-40,000 range offering a step up from Chevy, without investing tremendous amounts in R&D. Then Cadillac is all rear drive on it's own platforms, $35k and up.

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This will let Buick operate in the $26-40,000 range offering a step up from Chevy, without investing tremendous amounts in R&D. Then Cadillac is all rear drive on it's own platforms, $35k and up.

Could very well be: 4 'core' brands, as outlined in the Business Plan, with minimal overlap. Chevrolet's biggest car overlaps with Buick's smallest car, and Buick's largest car overlaps with Cadillac's smallest model.

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Apparently, whoever did the camo job on the front end is an Olds fan.

:lol: @ the electrical tape rocket logo.

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Amber directionals? Wow. When's the last time Buick had amber directionals?

Powertrain mule? What's with the f-ed up exhaust?

It's to modify the car for the 3800 and 4-speed.

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Amber directionals? Wow. When's the last time Buick had amber directionals?

I'm happy to see this. I have never been a fan of GM's flashing brake lights as turn signals. I guess with the introduction of the Liddy light, this set up was a bit safer; but I think it looks far less sophisticated and too old school in the premium market.

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I'm happy to see this. I have never been a fan of GM's flashing brake lights as turn signals. I guess with the introduction of the Liddy light, this set up was a bit safer; but I think it looks far less sophisticated and too old school in the premium market.

Me either--I always thought it was a little unsafe... I mean, if you had to drive with the hazards on, as soon as you hit the brakes, the flashing would stop.

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Body looks very Malibu like, with 5-series wannabe tail lights.

I don't mind that though, because I see Buick's future as making a fancy version of the Cruze, Malibu, with the Enclave and Zeta sedan, and a fancy Vue/Equinox if GMC doesn't get one. This will let Buick operate in the $26-40,000 range offering a step up from Chevy, without investing tremendous amounts in R&D. Then Cadillac is all rear drive on it's own platforms, $35k and up.

If Buick gets the Zeta Sedan, prices will be over $40k. The Lucerne SUPER is currently priced at $41k.

I personally vote for Buick receiving a car on Cadillac's SIGMA platform... such as a version of the Cadillac STS.

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It looks like a Cutlass Ciera had a baby with an Acura RL.

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If Buick gets the Zeta Sedan, prices will be over $40k. The Lucerne SUPER is currently priced at $41k.

I personally vote for Buick receiving a car on Cadillac's SIGMA platform... such as a version of the Cadillac STS.

Sigma costs more, though it is better. They could do a V6 Zeta car for low $30s to $42k like the Genesis is priced. Sigma or whatever Cadillac goes to in the future has to be exclusive.

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Sigma costs more, though it is better. They could do a V6 Zeta car for low $30s to $42k like the Genesis is priced. Sigma or whatever Cadillac goes to in the future has to be exclusive.

Lexus and Inifiniti platorms are not entirely exclusive... although they don't share everything with other brands.

I don't see a "cost" reason for not offering a $40k-$48k Sigma-based Buick flagship if Cadillac is able to offer the V6 CTS & STS between $33k-$50k.

The Genesis sedan will not remain that cheap for long (expect the price to climb each year and with each engine upgrade)... if it even survives.

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Buick's badge can't support a $40-48k sedan, and that is Cadillac's range. They need to keep the flagship closer to the Genesis or the MKS price, $35-40,000, low $40s fully loaded. The STS doesn't sell as a Cadillac, turning it into a Buick will make it sell worse. Big cars don't sell well, Buick would be best off making a luxury version of the Cruze for $25-30,000 and a luxury Malibu for $28-35,000. Small premium is a segment that will grow and the Jetta, TSX, and Mini are the only ones in it right now before going to 3-series/C-class prices.

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Buick's badge can't support a $40-48k sedan, and that is Cadillac's range. They need to keep the flagship closer to the Genesis or the MKS price, $35-40,000, low $40s fully loaded. The STS doesn't sell as a Cadillac, turning it into a Buick will make it sell worse. Big cars don't sell well, Buick would be best off making a luxury version of the Cruze for $25-30,000 and a luxury Malibu for $28-35,000. Small premium is a segment that will grow and the Jetta, TSX, and Mini are the only ones in it right now before going to 3-series/C-class prices.

If Pontiac gets a verison of this and it looks this good in a different way I might want one. I really like this thing. SMK I agree with you. How that happend is beyond me. :scratchchin:

As for Pontiac they need some performance stuff too and shouldn't pass much above 40K either, but dip into the teens unlike Buick starting in the low 20's.

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Pontiac might not even be around by the time the Cruze is ready, and they shouldn't get one anyway. There will be a Cruze SS that could be quite good for performance buyers. The Cobalt SS has good performance (3rd place in Car and driver sport compacts), only problem, is that it is a Cobalt. Take away the rental car blandness and match VW in build quality and they are fine there.

If they take Delta II (180-182 inch length), make it look elegant and put the 2010 LaCrosse interior in it, they will have a winner. 2.3 DI 4 cylinder can make 200 hp, in a 3300+ pound car that is enough, especially for Buick buyers who are seeking comfort, not 0-60 times. A diesel should be offered also, since the Cruze will need one for Europe anyway, and they can go after the 41 mpg Jetta TDI.

Buick's future is going to be in small to midsize premium, I hope they see that.

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Wow, that actually looks very good. The Lucerne is unnecessarily large and space-inefficient; I think this new LaCrosse will be good enough to replace it in terms of segmentation.

Hopefully there will be a Regal (Insignia) to slot underneath it.

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Buick's badge can't support a $40-48k sedan, and that is Cadillac's range. They need to keep the flagship closer to the Genesis or the MKS price, $35-40,000, low $40s fully loaded. The STS doesn't sell as a Cadillac, turning it into a Buick will make it sell worse. Big cars don't sell well, Buick would be best off making a luxury version of the Cruze for $25-30,000 and a luxury Malibu for $28-35,000. Small premium is a segment that will grow and the Jetta, TSX, and Mini are the only ones in it right now before going to 3-series/C-class prices.

the MKS topes out at more than low 40's. The question is how much car Buick offers for the money. Buick can suppport a $48K sedan, IMO. It'd have to be decked out, LWB Zeta that's loaded with luxury, but it would sell, I think. The question is, should Buick do that, and leave a gap in the Middle of it's lineup. I think If they used a regular Zeta (G8 platform, and offers a choice of engines (more of a direct competitor in size and equipment to the MKS), then it should start where the Lacrosse tops out at and climb into the low-mid $40s. Though it'd only be slightly larger than the Lacrosse, I think it still sell as step up because it's RWD setup would lend it more luxury credibility, and ofcourse it should be contented as a step up also. The ES350 is actually slightly larger than the GS350, but the ES can't command GS dollars because it's FWD, doesn't offer a V8, and everyone know's it's platform is lifted from the Camry (except the ES owners themselves who pretend that's not the case).

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I like this a lot. With a nice sedan that someone besides seniors might like driving, I could see Buick becoming a hit. There are a lot of 30 somethings cruzin around in Enclaves that I've noticed.

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I'm happy to see this. I have never been a fan of GM's flashing brake lights as turn signals. I guess with the introduction of the Liddy light, this set up was a bit safer; but I think it looks far less sophisticated and too old school in the premium market.

IMHO, red directionals are a very American distinction. In other countries, the amber is required by law.

I don't like the ambers as I feel they are too bright at night.

OTOH, I do agree that blinking the stop lights is a potential safety issue... and alot of GM cars have had separate red directionals and stoplights... such as the Celebrity, IIRC.

Of course, when we talk of taillight safety, I can't believe that in this day and age we still have cars with a single stop bulb on either side of the car... IMHO, all cars should have multiple bulbs on each side and they should take up a decent amount of real estate on the back of the car. A big cheap out in this aspect was the 1990's Thunderbirds. The car appeared to have a full width taillight... but it was 90% reflector. On the little tiny ends actually lit up... being tail, stop and turn lamps.

I hate ambers on the rear my car, and promptly try to change them to reds.

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Buick's badge can't support a $40-48k sedan, and that is Cadillac's range. They need to keep the flagship closer to the Genesis or the MKS price, $35-40,000, low $40s fully loaded. The STS doesn't sell as a Cadillac, turning it into a Buick will make it sell worse. Big cars don't sell well, Buick would be best off making a luxury version of the Cruze for $25-30,000 and a luxury Malibu for $28-35,000. Small premium is a segment that will grow and the Jetta, TSX, and Mini are the only ones in it right now before going to 3-series/C-class prices.

Buick is not a direct competitor to Hyundai. Chevrolet is. If anything, give the G8 to Chevrolet to undercut the Genesis. As for luxury Hyundais, they need to undercut everyone in the premium/luxury market to encourage people to check them out. Buick can charge more than Chevrolet & Hyundai, but still needs to charge less, than say, a comparable Lexus, Infiniti, or Lincoln.

A flaw in your logic is "Cadillac's Range." $40k-$48k is not Cadillac Range... Compact - Entry level, then yes, but that is not a range owned exclusively by Cadillac. The problem here is that Cadillac is not charging Cadillac prices. Cadillac is charging BUICK prices for a BMW 5-series/E-Class sized competitor. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. The CTS should be priced (accompanied by the expected level of content) more closely to the German competitors. It's not. That's why Cadillac and Buick are bumping up against each other in pricing.

If Cadillac demanded the market price for a mid-sized luxury car ($50k-$70k), Buick's $40k-$48k premium-large sedan would not be overlapping. A comparably sized large-luxury car by Cadillac should be nowhere close to Buick's price range. Cadillac should be able to charge $75k-$110k for an S-Class competitor.

BUICK

Compact (Delta II):$22k - $30k (3 body styles create a wider price range)

Midsize (SWB Epsilon II): $27k - $34k

Premium Midsize/Large (LWB Epsilon II): $31k - $39k

Large RWD Luxury sedan (Zeta or Sigma): $40k - $48k

CADILLAC

Compact (Alpha): $35k - $50k

Midsize (Sigma): $50k - $70k

Large (Zeta/Sigma+): $75k - $110k

Cadillac needs to provide more and charge more. Period. That will allow Chevrolet and Buick to spread out and assist with preventing overlap. A person shopping for a $45k compact sport/luxury car will not cross-shop a large luxury Buick. Just like a person shopping for a SWB Zeta Impala for $30k will not be looking at an Epsilon II-based Buick Regal.

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IMHO, red directionals are a very American distinction. In other countries, the amber is required by law.

I like the amber rear turn signals..don't see them often anymore on American cars...they were semi-common in the '80s and somewhat in the '90s. My '86 Mustang had them.

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It looks like a Cutlass Ciera had a baby with an Acura RL.

Or a Saturn Aura on steroids...

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A flaw in your logic is "Cadillac's Range." $40k-$48k is not Cadillac Range... Compact - Entry level, then yes, but that is not a range owned exclusively by Cadillac. The problem here is that Cadillac is not charging Cadillac prices. Cadillac is charging BUICK prices for a BMW 5-series/E-Class sized competitor. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. The CTS should be priced (accompanied by the expected level of content) more closely to the German competitors. It's not. That's why Cadillac and Buick are bumping up against each other in pricing.

Agreed on that point, which is why I criticized the CTS initially saying it had to be better. If they want it to be a 5/E/A6 competitor they should price it like one. But if the current CTS started at $49k sales would be about 100 units a month, because even at $34k base they need red tag sales. DTS and STS sell in the $40-50k range now, too much overlap, both those sedans need to die, CTS has to move up.

Buick should not get 2 epsilons or 4 sedans, too much overlap. Delta and Epsilon will be the volume, the Zeta sedan better be close to the Genesis in price and content, they can hopefully pick up G-Body and Panther platform sales when those products die. If they price a Buick sedan at $40k+ it will get killed in the marketplace by Lexus and the other luxury brands. This car has to be a low priority, because the G8 under $30k isn't selling, a $40K Buick version probably won't sell either.

I would like to see Cadillac have 4 sedans, one being a CLS type car, but the money won't be there for that. The Cadillac flagship can't be on Zeta or it is DOA, no credibility at all to an $90,000 car sharing a platform with a $28k Pontiac and Chevy. It has to be exclusive and should be aluminum like the XJ.

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