GM News: GM's Upcoming Electric Onslaught

[Robert Hall]

57 minutes ago, balthazar said:

No- it's real all right. Just; not in production. But it certainly could be. Hence; Cadillac can compete in this price tier by putting their concept-caliber cars into production.

But this is GM we are talking about..they always figure out how to cheap out... beancounters won't let them go all out.

[ccap41]

If it isn't in production and can't be purchased, can't pass crash safety standards, can't meet emissions requirements, it isn't real. It's just another fantasy concept vehicle. It's just a piece of art. 

[ykX]

14 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

But this is GM we are talking about..they always figure out how to cheap out... beancounters won't let them go all out.

Yea, one has leather from a skin of unicorns, wood from the top of Everest and was build by virgins and the other one will have doorknobs from Silverado and switches from Cruise.

[balthazar]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If it isn't in production and can't be purchased, can't pass crash safety standards, can't meet emissions requirements, it isn't real. It's just another fantasy concept vehicle. It's just a piece of art. 

But that's exactly what I'm advocating to answer this challenge ; put the concepts into production. If a lame-ass Bentley can pull in $200K with their dated styling, an Escala could do the same.

Cadillac hasn't hand-built a limited run car in a very long time, but it's certainly not beyond their capabilities. I think the '21 Escalade interior proves they can engineer/design something class-leading and put it into production in modern times.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Why is it 'legitimate' to have this bug-eyed sedan over $200K:

...but not this one? :

One says Bentley on it for starters.

[ccap41]

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But that's exactly what I'm advocating to answer this challenge ; put the concepts into production. If a lame-ass Bentley can pull in $200K with their dated styling, an Escala could do the same.

Cadillac hasn't hand-built a limited run car in a very long time, but it's certainly not beyond their capabilities. I think the '21 Escalade interior proves they can engineer/design something class-leading and put it into production in modern times.

I have my doubts they can put together an interior like this "worthy" of a 200k price tag.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-bentley-flying-spur-interior-how-its-made/

 

[riviera74]

53 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I have my doubts they can put together an interior like this "worthy" of a 200k price tag.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-bentley-flying-spur-interior-how-its-made/

 

Sadly I must agree.  Cadillac is insufficiently separate from GM corporate to even contemplate, let alone execute, THAT Bentley interior.

[balthazar]

Was Cadillac sufficiently separate from Corporate when they developed the Escalade interior and the Blackwing 4.2TT?

Build it, or one on the same level : 

[smk4565]

It is a concept car, but it isn't even all that nice.   Then you have issues of powertrain, which they could put 1000 electric horsepower and a big battery and solve that, but you still have to have a road pre-scan suspension that they don't have, you need level 3 autonomy which they don't have now.  That is a lot to come up with in a fews years for a low volume product.  

[surreal1272]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

One says Bentley on it for starters.

(Looks for a Benz interior that matches the Bentley yet cant find anything which makes the Cadillac comparison completely nonsensical and dumb quite honestly)

[ocnblu]

I want to know how they're going to synthesize the right flavors for each of these onslaught vehicles.

[balthazar]

29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It is a concept car, but it isn't even all that nice.   Then you have issues of powertrain, which they could put 1000 electric horsepower and a big battery and solve that, but you still have to have a road pre-scan suspension that they don't have, you need level 3 autonomy which they don't have now.  That is a lot to come up with in a fews years for a low volume product.  

It's 'understated finesse', not 'diamond-tufted whore house'.
I see the Escala doesn't have the horrid cheap plastic seat surrounds mercedes puts in their s-classes;  that Escala piece right there is awesome. Bentley does the same hard plastic on their seats, too.

Bentley interiors do come off as nice / 'whore house lite', but everything looks heavy & bloated. Details could be better integrated; for the money it just isn't worth it. There absolutely are elements I like & seem very appropriate in the class tho.

The lightness of the Escala's design is so airy & fresh, plus the audacity to put cloth in a top-tier luxury car; so seldom seen. It shakes some of the cobwebs out of modern top-tier luxury car thinking. I like it, and I think it has enormous potential for the upcoming 'Fleetwood'.

[smk4565]

26 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

(Looks for a Benz interior that matches the Bentley yet cant find anything which makes the Cadillac comparison completely nonsensical and dumb quite honestly)

 

[oldshurst442]

We are all smack talking Cadillac for not being able to sell us a high end 200 000 dollar car....

Bean counter arguments and tooo long ago history that Cadillac builders somehow forgot how to stitch a phoquing seam on leather....to whale penis blubber arguments that seem to be on other "luxury" vehicles...

https://www.wired.com/2009/11/dartz/

Quote

 

What's the world coming to when you can get your $1.45 million bulletproof SUV with gold trim, a ridiculously expensive Vertu cellphone and three bottles of premium vodka, but you can't get the whale-penis-skin interior?

We have environmentalists and Pamela Anderson to thank for this.

This bizarre story starts in Russia with a company called Dartz, which recently unveiled the Pombron Monaco Red Diamond Edition SUV. Yes, that's the official name of this four-ton motorized bank vault.

 

 

Yet we forget that the Celestiq WILL be handbuilt...

We could say that GM beancounters ALWAYS hamstring stuff...yet...the CELESTIQ WILL BE HANDBUILT.... 

You'd think that the beancounters will allow the necessary funds to allow this to happen the way it should, right?

I mean...ITS GONNA BE HANDBUILT...

Its GONNA BE A BOUTIQUE vehicle, non? 

Aint Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari and the like BOUTIQUE manufacturers???

Well...the Celestiq WILL be the same. This will NOT be mass produced. It will be on order to SPECIFIC...PERSONALIZED interiors...

THIS is going back to how Cadillac, Duesenberg, Lincolns and ALL luxury cars were made...including the body. An owner chose the coach builder then... 

Anyway...

There is a lot of shyte talking on a car that is not even out yet.

Please, if we are gonna shyte on the Celestiq, at least wait until it actually comes out for sale.Then we can shyte on it.

But I know one thing...

Looking at the Corvette C8....for the BILLIONTH time... 

At what the engineers ACCOMPLISHED with THAT platform...at that PHOQUING PRICE POINT!!!

ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT:

1. GM ENGINEERS BRING IT!!!

2. BEANCOUNTERS DONT EXERCISE THEIR FULL MIGHT ON THE PRODUCTS ANYMORE, RIGHT???!!!

3. ITS A CADILLAC.  THAT MEANS GOING FORWARD...IT GOING TO BE A CADILLAC.

LOOK AT THE 2021 ESCALADE'S INTERIOR

PS:

These are not 200 000 dollar Mercedes cars...

Funny...nobody bats an eye lid for this shyte that Mercedes is peddling...RIGHT NOW...in the USofA.

 

Cadillac is going UPSCALE and we find problems.

Mercedes is continuing to go DOWNSCALE...yet we are fine with that...

Something is wrong with our thinking!!! 

Why arent we bitching at Mercedes beancounting ways???

The CLA has a shyte reliabilty problem. The interior is cheap cheap cheap...

THIS is a car that was released but a few years ago...

For the second time...at least...in the new millennium....Mercedes Benz has SHYTE on their image. 

Anybody remember THIS Cimarron equivalent?

I DO!!!

Funny though....Mercedes GETS A PASS???!!!

I DONT THINK SO!!!

There is NO justification for Mercedes.

THESE ARE WORSE THAN WHAT CADILLAC HAS EVER DONE!!!

CIMARRON INCLUDED!!!

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

20 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Yet we forget that the Celestiq WILL be handbuilt...

 

Please, if we are gonna shyte on the Celestiq, at least wait until it actually comes out for sale.Then we can shyte on it.

 

Looking at the Corvette C8....for the BILLIONTH time... 

 

ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT:

1. GM ENGINEERS BRING IT!!!

2. BEANCOUNTERS DONT EXERCISE THEIR FULL MIGHT ON THE PRODUCTS ANYMORE, RIGHT???!!!

3. ITS A CADILLAC.  THAT MEANS GOING FORWARD...IT GOING TO BE A CADILLAC.

LOOK AT THE 2021 ESCALADE'S INTERIOR

 

The G-wagen is hand built too. Not sure if that matters at all for sales.

Sure we can wait til it gets out.

The C8 is slower than a Mercedes sedan around the Nurburgring.  

1.  The GM engineers didn't bring enough, I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

2.  They might...

3.  It's better than anything they did in the past, but it is probably like Audi Q7 level. 

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The G-wagen is hand built too. Not sure if that matters at all for sales.

Sure we can wait til it gets out.

The C8 is slower than a Mercedes sedan around the Nurburgring.  

1.  The GM engineers didn't bring enough, I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

2.  They might...

3.  It's better than anything they did in the past, but it is probably like Audi Q7 level. 

BASE CORVETTE

BASE CORVETTE

BASE CORVETTE

BASE CORVETTE

BASE CORVETTE

BASE CORVETTE

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

 

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

 

100 000 plus DOLLARS

100 000 plus DOLLARS

100 000 plus DOLLARS

100 000 plus DOLLARS

100 000 plus DOLLARS

100 000 plus DOLLARS

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-nurburgring-lap-time/

 

Quote

 

The new mid-engine Vette breathes down some pricey exotics' necks around the 'Ring.

We've tested the new 2020 Chevrolet Corvette C8, we've compared it to rivals, and we examined every inch of its massively improved interior. But there's still one thing we didn't know about the first-ever mid-engine Vette until now: How quickly can it lap the famed Nürburgring circuit in Germany? A new video finally answers the question of how the Corvette performs on the benchmark track's hairy undulations and blind corners: 7:29.9.

 

 

With an extra 171 horsepower and 205 some odd torque with AWD...the Vette is NATURALLY ASPIRATED...and the AMG sedan is TURBO...(HP 630 hp; Torque 664 lb-ft) and 40 000 dollars more...all 4 for  4 phoquing seconds on a 16 mile course?   

when you ALSO TROLLED

Quote

 

AMG One will happen, Mercedes is going to be in Formula 1 another 10 years that they committed to, so the R&D is already there.

Also the Tesla will be heavy,  the Corvette needs to lose a 1,000 lbs of weight and double the horsepower to even get close to an AMG One.  I don’t know where GM engineers find 1,000 lbs to cut out of a C8 when the only way they know how add power is displacement and superchargers which adds more weight.

 

 

Like...are you gonna shut up and STOP with the BULLSHYTE???!!!!

Im kinda had it with this nonsense back and forth!!!

Edited March 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

Why- because the MBSMayS63Bach is faster around a track than the MBAMGGTS63GTS??

Talk about a stupid metric.

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Was Cadillac sufficiently separate from Corporate when they developed the Escalade interior and the Blackwing 4.2TT?

Build it, or one on the same level : 

THAT should have been the CT6 interior five years ago.  Hopefully Cadillac will be wise enough to put this interior into its successors.

[oldshurst442]

@smk4565

You contend yourself with this AMG car  at the mid 50 000 dollar range...

and Ill contend myself with this at 65 000...

 

And Ill be laughing at you thinking you got a better, faster, more luxurious car for the price...

PS: I could probably fit more stuff in the Vette too...

Edited March 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

4 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

THAT should have been the CT6 interior five years ago.  Hopefully Cadillac will be wise enough to put this interior into its successors.

Yeah yeah...

We all know the argument....

Its a tired old argument.

Meanwhile in 2021 going forward

AT GM

At Cadillac

 

CELESTIQ WILL BE HANDBUILT

Now...lets stop with the useless back and forth to a vehicle that looks like this still

[smk4565]

OldsHurst, you claimed the Corvette was world beating performance and has world beating engineering.  Put the C8 against a Huracan or 911 GT2 that can do the Nurburgring ring in 6:50 or less and it is a 40-45 second gap.  
 

The CT6 Blackwing should have had lap times similar to the C8.  That should have been a Cadillac’s target if the car were still around.

I think the Corvette has great bang for the buck, for $70k it is a hell of a lot of performance and the Corvette has always had great performance per dollar.  But world beater it is not, nor should it be because it is a Chevy.  GM should have come up with a super car above Corvette years ago, or at least should start now if they want to pump some life into the Cadillac brand.  
 

Otherwise Cadillac should abandon all performance and be the opposite of sporty like a discount Rolls Royce and build isolation chambers that float over the road and have self driving.  And that might be a good play for the future.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

@smk4565

You contend yourself with this AMG car  at the mid 50 000 dollar range...

and Ill contend myself with this at 65 000...

 

And Ill be laughing at you thinking you got a better, faster, more luxurious car for the price...

PS: I could probably fit more stuff in the Vette too...

Not sure about luxury, but performance for price is outstanding because the C8 on the Nurburgring is very close to the Porsche Cayman GT4, faster than the GTS and faster than a base AMG Coupe, close to a BMW M4 GTS but way cheaper.  Likewise compared to a Nissan GT-R which is slightly quicker but got stupid expensive.  Most of the cars with C8 performance are around $100-120k  and not $70-80k as most Corvettes would be.  It is a win for the Corvette in that regard.

[balthazar]

Corvette not done yet....

[David]

10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I have my doubts they can put together an interior like this "worthy" of a 200k price tag.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-bentley-flying-spur-interior-how-its-made/

 

MEH, Honestly that interior reminds me of the Movie "Best Little Whore House in Texas".

Way over done and not luxury reserved, but luxury bitch Kardashin. Pass on that crapy interior, no matter how many people it took by hand to build. Not Impressed.

[oldshurst442]

So why are you comparing a  100 000 dollar top of the line AMG with a BASE Vette?  That is almost double the price.  And dont forget the 170 HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque MORE on it.

Also...its an AMG.  Its a tuned car tuned for...ultimate performance by a PERFORMANCE arm of Mercedes...

The Vette...is a BASE Corvette STRAIGHT from the factory. No enhancements of ANY kind. "Crappy" factory exhaust. "Crappy" factory engine tuning meant to appease insurance companies, EPA, reliability for daily driven duties and track use, except it aint a full on track car.  "Crappy" factory tires meant for public streets and highways that should last at least 50 000 miles of normal daily driving in normal weather, including rain, for what they are worth as sports car tires for the street that also cater to road noise inside the cabin.  "Crappy" factory brakes.   

Notice "crappy" is in quotations... "  "   

These are still the BASE FACTORY stuff on the BASE Corvette.  BASE price of 59 995. Z51 I think starts at 64 995. That would be the BASE track Stingray.  

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Not sure about luxury, but performance for price is outstanding because the C8 on the Nurburgring is very close to the Porsche Cayman GT4, faster than the GTS and faster than a base AMG Coupe, close to a BMW M4 GTS but way cheaper.  Likewise compared to a Nissan GT-R which is slightly quicker but got stupid expensive.  Most of the cars with C8 performance are around $100-120k  and not $70-80k as most Corvettes would be.  It is a win for the Corvette in that regard.

That post....its like you turned a 180 degree turn..

Dont forget, the C8 Corvette has another 2 levels to go.  A Z06 equivalent  and a ZR1 equivalent.  And those are CONFIRMED by Chevrolet.  The Z06 will soon be revealed in the coming months.  June, July....

The Corvette ALWAYS punched above its price tag. And NOW...there is LITERALLY NOTHING ANYBODY could whine about the C8.  ALL the things that the whiners complained about the Corvette's "shortcomings" all have been addressed and fixed.  

There is a new one...no manual transmission...   You cant please everybody. Phoque-em!

Regardless...   

The C8 Corvette shows what GM can do. What Cadillac could do. What Chevy already does. 

The C8 Corvette is PROOF that the beancounters no longer impose cheapness and the C8 Corvette shows where GM's strategy and future product is at...

This of course is my opinion and you are entitled to yours. But when you discuss with me....keep things equal and level. I do that. You SHOULD do it too. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

OldsHurst, you claimed the Corvette was world beating performance and has world beating engineering.  Put the C8 against a Huracan or 911 GT2 that can do the Nurburgring ring in 6:50 or less and it is a 40-45 second gap.  

I just saw that...   

Huracan and a 911 GT2?

A GT2?

THAT is a track focused, top of the line Porsche. It costs 300 000 dollars.  

A Huracan is also 250 000.  

The Lambo has got a 550 some odd HP...

You are really phoqued in the head....

 

PS...the Vette engineers benchmarked  the GT2.   The Z06 is gonna be launched. WHEN it beats the performance numbers of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say then?   And even if the Z06 comes close but does not beat the GT2 RS, but has a price tag lwess than half of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say?

A GT RS is 300 000 dollars....the Z06 will be around 120 000...

You really are phoqued in the head...

[ocnblu]

We should all get ourselves a C8.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I just saw that...   

Huracan and a 911 GT2?

A GT2?

THAT is a track focused, top of the line Porsche. It costs 300 000 dollars.  

A Huracan is also 250 000.  

The Lambo has got a 550 some odd HP...

You are really phoqued in the head....

 

PS...the Vette engineers benchmarked  the GT2.   The Z06 is gonna be launched. WHEN it beats the performance numbers of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say then?   And even if the Z06 comes close but does not beat the GT2 RS, but has a price tag lwess than half of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say?

A GT RS is 300 000 dollars....the Z06 will be around 120 000...

You really are phoqued in the head...

Z06 won’t beat a 912 GT2, but they should set the ZR1’s goal to be Huracan or Aventador fast because those are old cars.  Even if it means the ZR1 is $300,000.  If Corvette wants to play with the big boys, that is where they are.

 AMG has a GT73 sedan coming, so they will beat their own 4-door lap record, they have a next gen SL73 that is a sports car not a retiree mobile that the current SL is (although I like the current SL, give me luxury over performance) and the next gen AMG GT coupes are all wheel drive so they’ll be faster than the current one.

If the Corvette wants to play up there then bring it on, but if not then I don’t want to hear GM engineers saying it has super car performance when it doesn’t, at least not yet.

[balthazar]

There are 2 last gen Corvettes faster than both the MBAMGGTS63 and the MBSLSAMGBS.
Faster than the lexus FLA Nurburgring Package, the 911 Turbo, the 911 GT2, the 911 GT3, and the ferrari 488GTB. Among others.

Corvette is already in super car territory. It's brought it on.
But it's going to bring it on so very much harder with the C8.

[surreal1272]

Now almost ten pages wasted on one persons hard trolling. This might be a C&G record. 

[David]

Interesting video on the comparison of GM EVs to Tesla.

Interesting read that GM has started the retooling of the Detroit-Hamtramck plant.

https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/gm-starts-retooling-its-detroit-plant-for-electric-vehicles-despite-coronavirus/

Quote: 

I’d like to thank the membership of Local 22, who has been committed to building cars, whether it’s the end of the CT6 and the Impala, and definitely committed to building all-electric vehicles here. Every day, they come to work to do the right thing for General Motors and do the right thing for their families.

I just want to thank that membership out there, that comes to work every day no matter what it is, with their heads held high to build quality vehicles for General Motors.

We are going to do any and everything it takes to make this possible.

 This is an interesting read by Forbes on why Traditional auto makers will struggle with EVs compared to Tesla and up coming Rivian.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2020/03/15/tesla-vs-everyone-else-why-electric-cars-from-traditional-carmakers-will-continue-to-struggle-against-the-model-3-model-y-in-the-us/#15afe50c9d3a

 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

There are 2 last gen Corvettes faster than both the MBAMGGTS63 and the MBSLSAMGBS.
Faster than the lexus FLA Nurburgring Package, the 911 Turbo, the 911 GT2, the 911 GT3, and the ferrari 488GTB. Among others.

Corvette is already in super car territory. It's brought it on.
But it's going to bring it on so very much harder with the C8.

The AMG GT R Pro which is a front engine, rear drive coupe, same as a C7,  is faster than the 755 hp ZR1.  And I know it is faster because it had the record for front engine rear drive car.

The 911 GT2 RS has like a 6:47 Nurburgring time which is also the old generation since the new 911 is out.  Let’s see the C8 in the 6’s.

All GM plants are closed now.  So one wonders what delays will happen with development cycle of future product.  And what production delays will occur,  Corvette is done for 2020 orders.

[David]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The AMG GT R Pro which is a front engine, rear drive coupe, same as a C7,  is faster than the 755 hp ZR1.  And I know it is faster because it had the record for front engine rear drive car.

The 911 GT2 RS has like a 6:47 Nurburgring time which is also the old generation since the new 911 is out.  Let’s see the C8 in the 6’s.

All GM plants are closed now.  So one wonders what delays will happen with development cycle of future product.  And what production delays will occur,  Corvette is done for 2020 orders.

Mercedes Benz Employees shut down the Spain plant as MB had no plans on how to keep the workers safe. MB has now stated 2020 warning for profits and possible losses due to the need to shut down assembly plants. This is not just a GM and Ford worry issue. But doing the right thing to protect humanity.

MB will see a further delay in getting out their first EV for real time sales and NO I am not going to accept that the Compliance EV MB sold in select markets was their first.

MB has NO EVs for sale. As such, they also are going to have reduced if not flat out no more sales of select models as they close plants and then cut models.

Good chance you will not see many of the AMG models around by summer.

https://www.al.com/business/2020/03/work-continues-at-mercedes-benz-plant-but-supply-chain-could-be-affected.html

Per this story, Daimler has stopped work at all European plants and moved their US plant to a 6hr shift and admitted that parts are getting short, will probably have to stop production.

Honda has stopped all work,  as well as Hyundai.

Daimler is going to be hurting for cash as they still have fines and fees to pay for their Diesel gate mess. I am thinking we will see MB have to push out by 1 if not 2 years their EVs coming to market.

[smk4565]

Daimler has more cash than GM does.  But all automakers are going to take huge hits this year, I suspect sales will go down 20% for the market this year.

Daimler also can't push EV's out, they need them to avoid CO2 fines. And the EQ S and EQ E are already pretty deep into testing, they are going to be ready for production in 2021.  

[David]

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Daimler has more cash than GM does.  But all automakers are going to take huge hits this year, I suspect sales will go down 20% for the market this year.

Daimler also can't push EV's out, they need them to avoid CO2 fines. And the EQ S and EQ E are already pretty deep into testing, they are going to be ready for production in 2021.  

Would not be the first company to pay fees to deal with CO2. Plenty of companies have paid them including Daimler.

Second, Daimler DOES NOT have more Cash on Hand than GM. You really need to check your FACTS before you state such Nonsense.

GM - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/cash-on-hand

Daimler - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DDAIF/daimler-ag/cash-on-hand

Daimler had break even in 2018 due to Diesel gate and is bleeding cash.

Daimler has more assets than GM, but that is too be expected. Right now Daimler is working to increase cash.

If ya DO NOT LIKE the chart above, here is another one that shows them with even more detail.

Daimler - https://ycharts.com/companies/DDAIF/free_cash_flow

You could say they have more cash and Equivalent when you look at their released report.

https://annualreport.daimler.com/ar2019/financial-statements/cash-flow-statement

That is all wiped out when you take into account their expenses of Fines which does wipe this out. THEY ARE BLEEDING MONEY!

Wanna Compare it to GM's Cash on hand - Far more Money Than Daimler Compare the Positives from GM to all the negatives from Daimler from https://ycharts.com/companies/GM/cash_on_hand

Here is GM's 2019 Yearly Report. I give ya the snapshot view.

https://investor.gm.com/static-files/16cada71-8b97-4222-98b2-a8ddb685c402

[smk4565]

Daimler had $26.775 billion cash to end 2019, GM had 23.243, thus Daimler has more as per Yahoo Finance. 

[riviera74]

41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Daimler had $26.775 billion cash to end 2019, GM had 23.243, thus Daimler has more as per Yahoo Finance. 

Will that be true 12-18 months from now?  How about six months from now?  GM does NOT have a DieselGate problem.  There may be another shoe to drop for Daimler concerning that alone.

[David]

47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Daimler had $26.775 billion cash to end 2019, GM had 23.243, thus Daimler has more as per Yahoo Finance. 

Love how you ignore posting any links to back yourself up. Let me help you with correcting your CONFUSED info.

Daimler ended 2019 according to Yahoo finance with a NEGATIVE -$2,947,000 or negative 2.9 billion cash flow.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DDAIF/cash-flow/

By Balance Sheet, Daimler has $26.775 billion cash on hand. Yet they are burning through it and before this year is out, much of this will disappear.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DDAIF/balance-sheet?p=DDAIF

Since you like Yahoo, lets look at the numbers of GM:

Cash Flow - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GM/cash-flow?p=GM

GM is Negative $8.9 Billion

Balance Sheet - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GM/balance-sheet?p=GM

GM is $23.2 billion in cash.

So Yes, Daimler has $3 billion more cash than GM.

Daimler has $74 billion more than GM in total Assets.

That is a small amount in regards to GM NOT having to pay Diesel Gate where Daimler will and that is still Billions to come. Now with Coronavirus shutting the world down, get ready for Depression and the cost of it. 

I would not bet on Daimler doing any better than GM even with EVs in testing, Daimler has NOT delivered selling them yet where GM has been selling the Bolt for a few years. 

One Cannot call success when nothing has been delivered YET!

2020 is INTERESTING TIMES!

There is a difference between Cash Flow and Cash on Hand and you need to be clear on that when discussing financials.

[surreal1272]

Honestly, F Daimler and the trolling. This is about GM and their EV plans and if the Daimler trolls can’t stick to the subject then, maybe they should start their own thread about Daimler’s EV plans. It’ll be a short thread, mind you, since their plans seem to always get pushed back where EVs are concerned but it’s worth a shot.

[David]

Cool read on the thoughts and focus of GM's EV plans through 2025.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-note-general-motors-ev-154903848.html

The above link talks about GM's plans, what other auto makers are doing and where they see the market going.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/gm-ev-charging-network/

Interesting take on GM's own charging network and the lack of investing in it themselves and how it could end up hurting GM. Very interesting read as well.

It will be interesting to see how the EV rollouts play out with the global pandemic of Coronavirus and how they get work done.

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

Cool read on the thoughts and focus of GM's EV plans through 2025.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-note-general-motors-ev-154903848.html

The above link talks about GM's plans, what other auto makers are doing and where they see the market going.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/gm-ev-charging-network/

Interesting take on GM's own charging network and the lack of investing in it themselves and how it could end up hurting GM. Very interesting read as well.

It will be interesting to see how the EV rollouts play out with the global pandemic of Coronavirus and how they get work done.

Good read. if there is not a proper network put into place, then this will be just another fail. Hopefully they will get that part figured out instead of just pissing away money with only half a plan.

[smk4565]

I don’t see why an auto maker needs their own charging network when they don’t have their own gas stations.  You’d think there would be monopoly or anti trust law issues is a car maker owned gas stations.

Current gas stations will put in EV chargers or restaurants and malls will, etc.   And I imagine a lot of gas stations as we know them today will be gone in 10-15 years.

[David]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t see why an auto maker needs their own charging network when they don’t have their own gas stations.  You’d think there would be monopoly or anti trust law issues is a car maker owned gas stations.

Current gas stations will put in EV chargers or restaurants and malls will, etc.   And I imagine a lot of gas stations as we know them today will be gone in 10-15 years.

Bigger question to ask is why is the power companies not jumping on this as it would increase their income potential.

It is understandable why gas companies would not do this as they want EVs dead and just burn baby burn along with Drill baby Drill and Pump Baby Pump.

For auto companies, there is the money making capabilities of having your own charging network. I would think local power companies would love to have a charging network as an additional source of income.

That is why Tesla built there network of super chargers to support their auto's and it makes sense for an auto company to build a network so there is an income potential. 

A bigger question is how much income potential to cost is there. Once people can get the type of auto they want in EV format and change their thinking to plugging in at home or having a wireless pad they drive over to charge from, the income potential for chargers changes much lower I would think.

[balthazar]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

For auto companies, there is the money making capabilities of having your own charging network. I would think local power companies would love to have a charging network as an additional source of income.

That is why Tesla built there network of super chargers to support their auto's and it makes sense for an auto company to build a network so there is an income potential. 

A bigger question is how much income potential to cost is there.

You were confusing revenue with profit there, but you correctly stated it with the last line. If you can take in $1000/day in revenue, but the COST of doing so is $1250, would you do it?

Have we seen any specifics on Tesla supercharger's bottom line? I doubt it's profitable given Tesla's miserable balance sheet, but I've no idea... other than the fact if it were a 'red hot income deal'- plenty of companies would be getting into them, rather than a handful. The logistics, legalese and variables in local costs could be considerable and off-putting.

Telsa was FORCED to install these early on to allay EV range fears. I question strongly whether they're ultimately necessary beyond interstates.

[David]

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You were confusing revenue with profit there, but you correctly stated it with the last line. If you can take in $1000/day in revenue, but the COST of doing so is $1250, would you do it?

Have we seen any specifics on Tesla supercharger's bottom line? I doubt it's profitable given Tesla's miserable balance sheet, but I've no idea... other than the fact if it were a 'red hot income deal'- plenty of companies would be getting into them, rather than a handful. The logistics, legalese and variables in local costs could be considerable and off-putting.

Telsa was FORCED to install these early on to allay EV range fears. I question strongly whether they're ultimately necessary beyond interstates.

Thank you, for understanding my thoughts, and yes, mixing up revenue with profit.

In regards to your last statement, Tesla has stated they will never have it as a profit center but as a break even center that supports their auto industry products.

Interesting read: https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

Here is another discussion on it in the Tesla Motor Club forum asking if charging networks can ever be profitable and what is the cost. Seems $3,500 is the cost per month for a traditional charging station. I do wonder how they truly justify that cost. Yet, still an interesting read.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/can-the-supercharger-network-be-profitable.154320/

Good read on Electrify America and if they are making money.

https://technotes.seastrom.com/2020/03/01/electrify-america.html

Plus a comparison with the Tesla network. Very interesting read.

[ocnblu]

Ugh, such a dry topic I thought I'd offer a public service announcement:

 

 

[David]

Let me help you out @ocnblu

NO FIRE DANGER HERE  

[balthazar]

Well, the 2 worlds DO intermingle upon occasion...

[smk4565]

The money to be made is by the fast food and fast station hybrid business that exist now like Sheetz or Wa-Wa.  If you have a coffee bar, soda fountain , fast food restaurant, convenient store type set up that draws traffic anyway, where as before maybe half the customers get gas and leave, now they have to let their EV charge.  So Sheetz can charge whatever per KWH or electric the person puts in their car and has them there for 20-30 minutes with nothing to do except spend money on coffee, lunch, etc.

Although I think 80% of EV charting will happen at home, if not more.  The vast majority of cars sit for 12 hours consecutive every day, plenty of time to charge at home.

[riviera74]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The money to be made is by the fast food and fast station hybrid business that exist now like Sheetz or Wa-Wa.  If you have a coffee bar, soda fountain , fast food restaurant, convenient store type set up that draws traffic anyway, where as before maybe half the customers get gas and leave, now they have to let their EV charge.  So Sheetz can charge whatever per KWH or electric the person puts in their car and has them there for 20-30 minutes with nothing to do except spend money on coffee, lunch, etc.

Although I think 80% of EV charting will happen at home, if not more.  The vast majority of cars sit for 12 hours consecutive every day, plenty of time to charge at home.

Gas stations have operated that way for over a century.  Surely WaWa can do the same with EVs.