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Oracle of Delphi

GM to absorb Chrysler - as Chrysler absorbed AMC?

75 posts in this topic

This rumored deal would likely see the elimination of the historical Chrysler and Dodge brands.

If that will be the case, I absolutely do not support GM on this. Not one bit.

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I can't see it happening....

I think about the trouble they had with Olds.....I can see the backlash now....

Not only from Chrysler people, but the state of Michigan too......

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I say do it. With Chrysler's $11 billion in cash they can pay off all the dealers to close. Close down GMC brand, and put Jeep (Wrangler, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Ram) in its place. Chevy gets a minivan, the 300C could go to Buick or Chevy and everything else dies. GM would get a few products and factories that have value, and clear out one competitor in the market.

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Heartless, but logical.

The Challenger will be a major collectible.

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I say do it. With Chrysler's $11 billion in cash they can pay off all the dealers to close. Close down GMC brand, and put Jeep (Wrangler, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Ram) in its place. Chevy gets a minivan, the 300C could go to Buick or Chevy and everything else dies. GM would get a few products and factories that have value, and clear out one competitor in the market.

i think GM needs the $11B to keep out of bankruptcy, not to give away to Chrysler dealers.

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my hope would be they keep the door open to keeping the dodge and chrysler brands alive, while really downsizing them.

really, i would rather dodge and chrysler stay around then all the other furrin brands. but people in this country need to understand that their defacto attitude about japan inc. being better is coming home to roost now.

and to think, 30 months ago it was all about chrysler's home run with the 300 and everyone else's mad rush to follow suit with rwd v8's.

folks, that alone if anything tells you of the TECTONIC shift in the car market.

another irony. dodge's new ram is likely the best full size truck on the market now. and its more or less stillborn now.

there was an ominous article in the press a couple years ago about how there would be a major shakout in the market of car brands for sale or making cars worldwide. this may be the start of it. It makes sense to suggest we may be left with GM Ford Toyota Honda VW and BMW, Fiat, Renault and Daimler and a couple Koreans. this could be the start of a tidal wave.

I really hope the Dodge and CHrylser brands survive in some way. I honestly don't see how this plan helps GM, but oh well. One article i read suggested that what this does is create an entity so large, that the govt under a new president will be forced to do something to help it survive. The failure of a merged GM/Chrysler would account for 35% of the manuf. in this country i thought i read. No politician who is smart would not find a way to support its survival.

Edited by regfootball
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I could care less but it would be mean to kill Dodge and Chrysler whatever is the best for my general. You could stick them with a bunch of econo boxes to raise GM's cafe averages.

Edited by gm4life
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It's like the Titanic trying to "absorb" another cruise ship.... with an iceberg straight ahead!

How many of these stupid rumor posts can there be?

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The brands might be historical, but that's the nature of business. Lets face it, a lot of people weren't exactly crying when brands like Lehman, and JP Morgan, hallowed institutions, came tumbling down. Heck, the only brand left on the Dow Jones since its inception is General Electric.

Still, I'd prefer this really didn't happen, but if it did, I'd only want to see Jeep hang around. Other than that asset, Chrysler doesn't exactly have much that would interest GM... or pretty much anyone in the general populous nowadays.

Edit: Although I still love their commercials. :P

Edited by Captainbooyah
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Plymouth, AMC, Studebaker, Oldsmobile, Eagle Packard, and Hudson all had history too, and they are all gone. History and pleasing dealers has nothing to do with it. It hinges on how many brands can a shrinking American car market support, and right now the Detroit 3 have too many models, and too much capacity, so they have to give huge incentives to move metal. They've all done the same basic tactics for the last 15 years and it isn't working, GM needs a radical change, this could be it.

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It hinges on how many brands can a shrinking American car market support, and right now the Detroit 3 have too many models, and too much capacity, so they have to give huge incentives to move metal.

you mean like toyota is doing too? i dont think this is a Big 3 thing, i think all are suffereing with this slump just some are going to survive the atrition longer

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This sucks - a strong and vibrant independent Chrysler would be awesome. Clearly I'd like to see GM survive and thrive over the next few years, but as a true blue American car enthusiast, I'd be very disappointed at seeing Chrysler go away because GM needed the cash. To be perfectly honest, I actually think some of the coolest vehicles on the road these days are Chrysler products - the 300C and Dodge Charger are cool, the Jeep Wrangler and Cherokee and Wrangler are both really cool, and ...oh, wait, okay, those are the only Chrysler products I like - but still, I'd hate to see anyone take them over right now and destroy them.

I dunno, the whole demise of the American auto industry really bugs the hell out of me.

:alcoholic:

Edited by gmcbob
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"Plymouth, AMC, Studebaker, Oldsmobile, Eagle Packard, and Hudson all had history too, and they are all gone. "

And at least 100 more names that died during the Great Depression. Plymouth and AMC were down to forgettable products the last 10 years they were still clinging to life.

But, I do not want to see GM try to merge with Mopar, let them die off and then get the left overs in a fire sale. That way no need to have to buy off dealers.

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In a way, it's a homecoming of sorts. From the Oct 2008 issue of Motor Trend on GM's 100th Anniversary:

1920: Buick President Walter P. Chrysler resigns, uses stock proceeds to start Chrysler Corporation.

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Hahahaa....

BigPoncho: I 'm shocked I neglected to make that same comment about W.P. Chrysler.

Talk about a golden parachute. :P

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Heartless, but logical.

The Challenger will be a major collectible.

+1

Chris

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Wall Street is developing a huge GM/Chrysler boner it seems.

So the momentum is building and is pushing a pressure wave of inevitability before it.

Lenders eager for Chrysler-GM deal- WSJ

Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:02am EDT

Oct 17 (Reuters) - Potential lenders are providing strong support for General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler LLC's merger talks and are eager to see a deal done, the Wall Street Journal said.

Major banks that have long lent to both companies, such as JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) are keen to do a deal to help reduce exposure to the auto industry, the paper said...

read more:

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20081017?rpc=44

I'm a GM-lifer. The relationship's been symbiotic. I labored, they compensated me. I did love many aspects of my job throughout the years. The camaraderie and the challenges of the Fisher Body years, the stint in GMSPO, the two assembly plants where I worked. Now GM is preparing to morph into something unrecognizable to but a few. I've a 'vested' interest (literally) in their survival/success. I also have a curiosity for seeing what comes next. So I'll stayed tuned for the next episode in the saga.

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If this does happen, I have to say, may make me not buy another American car.

Ridiculous? Sure but so is everything going on in the American automotive industry anyhow.

If Chrysler goes, then I'll go for good too.

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Wall Street is developing a huge GM/Chrysler boner it seems.

So the momentum is building and is pushing a pressure wave of inevitability before it.

Lenders eager for Chrysler-GM deal- WSJ

Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:02am EDT

Oct 17 (Reuters) - Potential lenders are providing strong support for General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler LLC's merger talks and are eager to see a deal done, the Wall Street Journal said.

Major banks that have long lent to both companies, such as JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) are keen to do a deal to help reduce exposure to the auto industry, the paper said...

read more:

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20081017?rpc=44

I'm a GM-lifer. The relationship's been symbiotic. I labored, they compensated me. I did love many aspects of my job throughout the years. The camaraderie and the challenges of the Fisher Body years, the stint in GMSPO, the two assembly plants where I worked. Now GM is preparing to morph into something unrecognizable to but a few. I've a 'vested' interest (literally) in their survival/success. I also have a curiosity for seeing what comes next. So I'll stayed tuned for the next episode in the saga.

As I've stated elsewhere, there's no reason for GM to do this...which means someone else (Cerberus, ahem) is MAKING them do it.

A 3way deal that sells a division (Jeep) on the way out the door might ease the burden---but this is a Mafia-style hit, not a biz decision.

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Why doesn't the government use Conrail as an example of what to do with Chrysler?

Those of you that aren't railfans: When the smaller railroads in the northeast all began failing, the government bought them all out and formed Conrail (Consolidated Rail Corporation) with the eventual intent to divide the assests among OTHER healthy RR companies.

In 1999, they did just that. Norfolk-Southern (originally 2 companies: Norfolk & Western and Southern) took roughly half of the company and CSX (Originally the Seaboard System and the Chessie System) took the other half.

That way, maybe more of the company could be saved AND GM (and hopefully Ford) could take on the aspects of the business that will benefit them, instead of make the ship sink faster (In GM's case)

I could see GM acquiring Jeep and if Ford is REALLY serious about pushing Lincoln up market again, it could certainly use Chrysler. (Or Dodge, but it'd have to completely change the image of the division)

The only piece that doesn't fit is the Dodge brand.

Maybe that's where Nissan fits into the deal. They could keep pushing Infiniti up market, then put Nissan mid-market and use Dodge to battle Ford and Chevrolet. (Because we all know that americans are too stupid to see that the Dodge name has more prestige than the Nissan name)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Many industry experts believe GM's interest in Chrysler, both now and in 2007, when DaimlerChrysler AG put the American unit up for sale, reflected its goal to reduce the excess capacity in the U.S. auto industry that has hurt all of Detroit's carmakers.

"The others (automakers) will be delighted to have Chrysler just die and take 1.5 million units out of the industry, which is about what the excess is," said Gerald Meyers, former chairman of AMC and now a professor at the University of Michigan.

So GM gets to "Take one for the team" and piss a bunch of loyal customers off (READ: Most of those sales from Chrysler WILL NOT go back to GM) while getting the backlash from the media and while all of Japan and Korea Inc. soak up sales in a market that is already TOO EASY for them to sell in?

As far as management... We'd get Jim Press :)

This week, after GMAC's announcement that it would consider auto loans only for customers with high credit ratings many wondered whether Cerberus was putting pressure on GM.

Of course they are... I said it then, and I'll say it now; Selling 51% of GMAC was BAD FOR BUSINESS. You don't just sell off the profit machine that has been keeping the ship sailing, bad times or not, IMO.

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OK......... so GM would get USD 11bn in cash, but how much cash is Chrysler bleeding? How much would it cost to shut down Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep? How much attention would the whole process divert from the task of building better cars with the nameplates GM has at this point in time?

Edited by ZL-1
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OK......... so GM would get USD 11bn in cash, but how much cash is Chrysler bleeding? How much would it cost to shut down Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep? How much attention would the whole process divert from the task of building better cars with the nameplates GM has at this point in time?

Z - I see this as silly season. Latest blog was Chry was wanting to sell only Jeep to Renault and Nissan while talks with GM should take two weeks for a decision. Let us think for a minute, if GM wants Chry, why will it not want Jeep which would possibly make sense for GM as many have mentioned? With economy down, people looking into the barrel, such rumors baseless or not seem to be cropping up.

I think GM will be better off hanging to what they have keep their development with E-REV and other products and ride the storm.

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Z - I see this as silly season. Latest blog was Chry was wanting to sell only Jeep to Renault and Nissan while talks with GM should take two weeks for a decision. Let us think for a minute, if GM wants Chry, why will it not want Jeep which would possibly make sense for GM as many have mentioned? With economy down, people looking into the barrel, such rumors baseless or not seem to be cropping up.

I think GM will be better off hanging to what they have keep their development with E-REV and other products and ride the storm.

That's my point exactly! It makes no effin' sense, unless GM management wants to fatten the company even more so that a financial-services-like bailout is offered for 'relevance tot he economy' reasons, but really I don't see that happening...

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