Toyota.vs.GM

GM may kill another brand , did anybody say Pontiac? Also delays GMT 900 replacements.

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General Motors Corp is delaying the redesign of SUV's and full size trucks as part of a wholesale review of its product and brand portfolio geared toward building lighter , fuel-efficient vehicles.

General Motors is looking at the whole product profolio,'' spokesman Tom Wilkinson said late Wensday.

In the meantime, he said the automaker will extend the life cycle of its current linup of pickups and SUV's. Those vehicles know as the GMT900 lineup. The next generation of trucks and SUV's weren't slated to hit the market until at least 2012,.

People briefed on the matter say the automaker also has discussed killing off at least one future Hummer SUV product , and potentially axing another brand

Full article here.

Edited by Toyota.vs.GM
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Shocking, but I was expecting this move.

No future product is safe at this point, no matter how much work has gone into it.

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Shocking, but I was expecting this move.

No future product is safe at this point, no matter how much work has gone into it.

If so, market share for the US winds up looking like the map of Europe where no one's got more than 15 or 20%. Certainly more competitive now sans the 'truck' factor. And more compelling.

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Given the slump in truck sales, strong future CAFE requirements, and the complete redundancy of GMC I would say it is at the top of the list.

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"future hummer product".... H2 replacement? the H4 should prolly still make it.don't know about the h3t

anyone think the 2.0l turbo could work in the H3 (replace the 3.7)? or would that be too much load on it, too much stress?

killing a brand would hurt GM alot when the economy turns around....assuming it will, with in a few years.

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Given the slump in truck sales, strong future CAFE requirements, and the complete redundancy of GMC I would say it is at the top of the list.

I agree. GMC is quickly becoming an anachronism, maybe even worse than Mercury is to Ford.

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Yup. GMC should be ripe to go. Saab I'd say is safe for now because they do a lot of R&D for GM and GME in particular. Saturn... Seems they want to tinker with it some more but in my Opinion it should go because it won't work. I think they should shutter Saturn and just bring in Opel (and call it Opel for that matter). Pontiac... I'm sorry to say might be on its way out considering the lack of announced product in the pipeline. Buick... Safe because of China and all the new product coming. Cadillac... Safe. Chevy... Safe.

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I agree. GMC is quickly becoming an anachronism, maybe even worse than Mercury is to Ford.

Still there'll be a need to 'Denali-ize' something. Those packages are just too decadent. Prefer those treatments over the Cadillac version.

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Sell Hummer, Kill GMC, and get rid of the Tahoe and TB NOW.

GMC does have quite a bit of history too...but even if things change, the truck market will never be the same again...

The car brands are more worth saving at this point...even Pontiac and Saturn....

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Still there'll be a need to 'Denali-ize' something. Those packages are just too decadent. Prefer those treatments over the Cadillac version.

Actually, no. I don't think people are ever going to pay that much for a truck again, unless maybe it is a Caddy....

My local dealership has 2 LTZ Silverados that have been sitting there for a long time....

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There's too much overlap at GM. They NEED to kill brands. At least one. Pontiac is the obvious choice. Sure, there will be lots of crybabying - but what can you do? Buick needs to stick around because it's doing too well in China to forget about AND the new products are very promising... AND they're "being" exactly what they're supposed to be. Traditional luxury vehicles like Cadillacs used to be. There will ALWAYS be a market for vehicles that OLD people like. OLD people aren't going anywhere. There are more people BECOMING OLD than are dying (as people live longer and longer). Just look at the success of Lexus.

Chevrolet? Of course Chevy isn't going anywhere. They can build Pontiacs just as good as Pontiac.

Cadillac? They build second rate luxury sports vehicles (besides the CTS, which is first rate). The best built vehicles in America. So they're here to stay.

Saab? Believe it or not, they're starting to come around here in the U.S. At least here in South Florida they are. Everybody is buying Saabs around here - especially young people. Here's your import killer brand. Use it.

Saturn? Even with nice products, I still don't see anybody buying Saturns.

Axe Saturn and Pontiac and use what worked at Chevrolet. The Oldsmobile Aurora absolutely should have moved into another brand under a new name. It was very stupid to entirely get rid of that car. Buick really could have used it. It was FAR better than the Park Avenue. So a nice rebadged Aurora to "Park Avenue" would have sold like crazy.

HUMMER? Drop that crappy brand and build a GMC Hummer.

GMC? I don't know. Make them a sub-division of Chevrolet and scrap the overlap.

The Pontiac G8, the only Pontiac worth talking about, would do just fine as a Chevy.

Edited by Sal Collaziano
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How can you scrap the Overlap between GMC and Chevy? Everything GMC sells are rebadged Chevies. i would rebadge the Sierra as a Silverado though...looks much nicer.

GMC and Hummer should be up on th list. Pontiac may in limbo because they don't know what to do with it, but they sell cars, and that's what people want now...not trucks.

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I see "panic mode" has been initiated.

BOY ain't that the truth! It's always poor GMC that gets named as the brand to cut. Why not Chevy trucks? GMCs could pickup those sales and it would give Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealerships a boost in sales. Of course we can't think of good ol' Chevy losing it's trucks, now can we? Funny thing, just a couple of months ago GMC was the one brand that was bringing in the dough for GM. How quickly those who don't favor trucks here forget that little tidbit of knowledge. :AH-HA_wink:

GM trucks as a whole are going to be cut back while gas prices continue to surge. That doesn't mean that the person who absolutely needs a truck for towing or work purposes is going to go out and buy a compact car to tow his heavy duty trailer with, now does it? No, that buyer will still need a real truck and his needs will still need to be met. Those that have purchased a pickup or SUV for primarily family hauling are going to no longer consider a truck, and that fad for the last decade & a half is finally coming to a close. Of course trucks/SUVs being the cash cow for GM, now we get to watch how GM continues to survive without those sales dollars.

In reality, GM will be looking at the dealer body that will be the easist to close. We all know that this is the biggest hurdle to face when closing a brand (remember Oldsmobile anyone?). Saab has the fewest dealers in the US, probably followed closely by Saturn. Saturn's sales & service records will aid in keeping them on the other side of the chopping block, maybe. Pontiac sales are not hot, nor are Buick - but as mentioned a zillion times already, Buick sales in China will keep that brand alive. So maybe it would be easy just to kill one brand without closing a whole dealership. Could we be seeing the Buick-GMC sales channel on the horizon? :scratchchin:

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It will be interesting to see what the full year sales for the GMT 900s will be next year compared to 2007. Down by 50%?

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Were going to see that sale of Hummer, I don't think GM will close another established car brand as the bad press/ hard feelings from owners about Oldsmobile a few years ago has taught them a lesson. I think GMC should be cut back to industrial products and allow Buick/Chevrolet to offer the full size or not quite Cadillac SUV models.

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I still think they should sell Saab/Hummer and combine Buick with Cadillac to form a luxury dealer network (Buick focused on FWD luxury cars and FWD/AWD luxury crossovers; Cadillac focused on RWD luxury cars). I would then convert Saturn into Opel and combine it with Pontiac/GMC to form a midmarket, import focused dealer network. Opel would sell FWD cars and MPVs, Pontiac would sell RWD cars, and GMC would sell FWD/AWD crossovers. Chevrolet would continue as the affordable, mainstream volume division with a wide array of products including FWD cars, FWD/AWD crossovers, trucks/SUVs (Chevy could handle this shrinking segment on their own), and the RWD Camaro & Corvette. Opel, Pontiac, GMC, Buick, and Cadillac would all have smaller, focused niche portfolios.

CHEVROLET:

* Beat: 3-door city car.

* Aveo: Subcompact 3-door/5-door/sedan on Gamma II.

* Monza: Compact sedan/coupe/5-door on Delta II.

* Volt: Plug in hybrid on Delta II.

* Malibu: Midsize sedan on LWB Epsilon II.

* Impala: Large sedan on extended LWB Epsilon II.

* Camaro: Sports coupe/convertible on SWB SigZeta.

* Corvette: Flagship coupe/convertible on C7 platform.

* Captiva: Compact crossover on SWB Theta II.

* Equinox: Midsize crossover on LWB Theta II.

* Traverse: Large crossover on Lambda.

* Colorado: Compact pickup truck.

* Tracker: Compact SUV. Based on Colorado platform, this would be a 5-door Wrangler competitor.

* Silverado: Fullsize pickup truck.

* Tahoe/Suburban: Fullsize SUVs.

OPEL:

* Agila: 5-door city car.

* Corsa: Subcompact 3-door/5-door/"TwinTop" roadster on Gamma II.

* Astra: Compact 3-door/5-door/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe on Delta II.

* Insignia: Midsize sedan/wagon/"TwinTop" coupe on SWB Epsilon II.

* Meriva: Subcompact MPV on Gamma II.

* Zafira: Compact MPV on Delta II. I think the Flextreme Concept was an actual preview of the next generation Zafira.

PONTIAC:

* Solstice: Roadster on 2-seat coupe on modified Alpha.

* Fiero: Subcompact 3-door/5-door on modified Alpha.

* LeMans: Compact sedan/coupe on Alpha.

* Grand Prix: Midsize sedan/coupe on SWB SigZeta.

* Bonneville: Large sedan on LWB SigZeta.

GMC:

* Envoy: Compact crossover on SWB Theta II.

* Terrain: Midsize crossover on LWB Theta II.

* Acadia: Large crossover on Lambda.

BUICK:

* Regal: Compact sedan on SWB Epsilon II.

* Invicta: Midsize sedan on LWB Epsilon II.

* LeSabre: Large sedan on extended LWB Epsilon II.

* Rendezvous: Compact crossover on SWB Theta II.

* Centieme: Midsize crossover on LWB Theta II.

* Enclave: Large crossover on Lambda.

CADILLAC:

* B-Series: Compact sedan/coupe/wagon on Alpha.

* C-Series: Midsize sedan/coupe/wagon on SWB SigZeta.

* S-Series: Large sedan on LWB SigZeta.

* XLC(?): Small retractable hardtop luxury roadster on modified Alpha.

* XLR: Flagship retractable hardtop luxury roadster on C7 Corvette platform.

This setup would allow less overlap and proper distribution of platform mates. It would also give each division a more distinct identity as well as allow GM to cover the entire market without needing to eliminate any of their core brands.

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Were going to see that sale of Hummer, I don't think GM will close another established car brand as the bad press/ hard feelings from owners about Oldsmobile a few years ago has taught them a lesson. I think GMC should be cut back to industrial products and allow Buick/Chevrolet to offer the full size or not quite Cadillac SUV models.

Hummer is already gone, you just don't know that yet. My understanding is that another brand is on the chopping block. There are four possibilities, two of which I am told have Saviors, so they won't be cut.

1. GMC

2. Pontiac

3. Saab (Savior)

4. Buick (Savior)

I would argue in defense of GMC being kept instead of Chevy Trucks since a GMC truck could be sold at any GM dealership, but Chevy is the world brand so it will not be cut.

I also hear GMC would be the easiest to replace, since it's only a badge replacement, however Pontiac has already lost it's Performance designation within GM and is running a close second to be given the axe. Meetings took place about this yesterday and will continue.

Whichever one leaves BPC, there would now be room to merge Saturn in with that group, since all three report to the same person in the higher scheme of things at GM.

Just remember things are changing daily at GM so any of this could change at a moments notice. It's crazy at times! :stupid:

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Just remember things are changing daily at GM so any of this could change at a moments notice. It's crazy at times! :stupid:

Crazy and scary!

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Given the slump in truck sales, strong future CAFE requirements, and the complete redundancy of GMC I would say it is at the top of the list.

Guess again...

GMC requires minimal investment yet sells a lot of vehicles and makes A LOT of money.

GM would be ignorant to close any of it's divisions. And if any have to go, it needs to be 1) Saab, since it's utterly f*cking useless and 2) Hummer since GM is too stupid and short sighted to see the equity in that brand.

So Saab, the black pit of GM, has a savior huh? Funny, I thought GM was a BUSINESS that is supposed to make money, not a boys club that does each other favors.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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If Pontiac goes I might not ever be able to forgive them. With products like a Solstice and G8 it will be hard to axe then. Honestly in the current truck market Hummer and GMC seem like the obvious options to go. Get rid of Hummer and GMC first. I don't think GM should get rid of any brand it is hard enough to get customers not that you want to take away from you offer so people have less choices. Pontiac is a strong selling compared to Buick. I would axe Buick before I would axe Pontiac. I think Pontiac and GMC are each safe. I am concerned about Hummer, if they axe Pontiac I might have to buy Honda. <_<

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Saturn to me has the least relevance as a brand. Since it is now Opel anyway, get rid of the name, change it to Opel. Sales couldn't possibly be any worse than they are now with the cars badged as Saturns.

Without proper rear drive product, Pontiac is essentially useless.

SAAB is a great centre for research and development especially in the fields of safety and turbocharging engines. They are perhaps a bit more noted in Europe than here, but GM would be foolish to kill SAAB. It would be better to sell it for the potential profit.

Buick has fantastic upcoming product even sans rear drive, and that's where Cadillac would come in above it; plus the Chinese market and desirability of Buicks there helps keep it safe.

Any sort of truck rebadge could be redundant. Fewer truck models, better CAFE, right? As gas prices rise, all the wannabes will be ditching their truck based vehicles as they realize they don't need them and can't afford them. Most people that drive SUV's should be driving minivans anyway. Oh wait. GM doesn't have any. OK, instead of minivans, let's just get them into slightly more fuel efficient station wagons on stilts that are ridiculously called "Crossovers". Bah!

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